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GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

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jimm

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Mod Note: Split from this thread.

Diagrams for Class 800s have started to appear in the system for October and November, according to poster Adelante_CCT at the Great Western Passengers' Forum.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10150.1035

From October 16

07:00 Paddington to Bristol TM
09:30 Bristol TM to Paddington
11:45 Paddington to Swansea
15:24 (15:29) Swansea to Paddington
19:00 Paddington to Bristol TM

06:00 Bristol TM to Paddington
08:15 Paddington to Cardiff
10:55 Cardiff to Paddington
13:45 Paddington to Swansea
17:24 (17:29) Swansea to Paddington

Plus from November 13

06:45 Paddington to Swansea
10:29 Swansea to Paddington
14:15 Paddington to Cardiff
16:56 Cardiff to Paddington

06:33 Bristol to Paddington
08:45 Paddington to Swansea
12:29 Swansea to Paddington
17:30 Paddington to Taunton
21:29 Taunton to Paddington
 
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leomartin125

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Diagrams for Class 800s have started to appear in the system for October and November, according to poster Adelante_CCT at the Great Western Passengers' Forum.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10150.1035

From October 16

07:00 Paddington to Bristol TM
09:30 Bristol TM to Paddington
11:45 Paddington to Swansea
15:24 (15:29) Swansea to Paddington
19:00 Paddington to Bristol TM

06:00 Bristol TM to Paddington
08:15 Paddington to Cardiff
10:55 Cardiff to Paddington
13:45 Paddington to Swansea
17:24 (17:29) Swansea to Paddington

Plus from November 13

06:45 Paddington to Swansea
10:29 Swansea to Paddington
14:15 Paddington to Cardiff
16:56 Cardiff to Paddington

06:33 Bristol to Paddington
08:45 Paddington to Swansea
12:29 Swansea to Paddington
17:30 Paddington to Taunton
21:29 Taunton to Paddington

Interesting, just checked RTT and the 0600 BRI to PAD schedule is there, however the 0815 PAD - CDF doesn't seem to exist... only Swansea's...
 

najaB

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Interesting, just checked RTT and the 0600 BRI to PAD schedule is there, however the 0815 PAD - CDF doesn't seem to exist... only Swansea's...
Is the HST timing load because:
  • 800s don't have their own SRTs
  • They have to interwork with HSTs until the entire fleet is in service so no point timing them any faster
  • They're being cautious and using HST timings so that HSTs can substitute if there are problems, or
  • Other
 

leomartin125

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Is the HST timing load because:
  • 800s don't have their own SRTs
  • They have to interwork with HSTs until the entire fleet is in service so no point timing them any faster
  • They're being cautious and using HST timings so that HSTs can substitute if there are problems, or
  • Other

I didn't ask about that. I asked why the Cardiff schedule it's booked on doesn't exist? It's one an hour to Wales from Paddington on the week of 16th October despite what that diagram states....
 

jimm

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Is the HST timing load because:
  • 800s don't have their own SRTs
  • They have to interwork with HSTs until the entire fleet is in service so no point timing them any faster
  • They're being cautious and using HST timings so that HSTs can substitute if there are problems, or
  • Other

You aren't going to rewrite the timetable for a handful of trains, that, as you suggest, could need to be replaced by an HST anyway.

There will still be a lot of HST duties on the GWML well into next year too, with the big timetable shake-up coming at the end of the year by which time pretty much all the 800s and 802s will be available.

I didn't ask about that. I asked why the Cardiff schedule it's booked on doesn't exist? It's one an hour to Wales from Paddington on the week of 16th October despite what that diagram states....

Or someone could just be tinkering with the timetable details in the system for that week.
 

Clarence Yard

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Is the HST timing load because:
  • 800s don't have their own SRTs
  • They have to interwork with HSTs until the entire fleet is in service so no point timing them any faster
  • They're being cautious and using HST timings so that HSTs can substitute if there are problems, or
  • Other

a) Correct. There are some DfT draft timings going back years but they are not now officially recognised by NR. As the units are now going to be heavier and operate at 125 on diesel, they need to be compiled again. Time is running out for Dec 2018 as GWR have to bid a timetable to NR in March 2018 with these new timings in the national train planning system.

b) Correct. You only alter the journey times when you have a service (and some electric infrastructure) that will support such a big change. You don't want to be altering the entire GWR timetable every time another IET hits the tracks.

c) Correct. The introduction cascade is based on the "staircase" principle so it can be reversed, slowed down or speeded up as required, without rediagramming everything and everybody. It's an old ER method of introducing new stock.
 

superalbs

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leomartin125

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It's on RTT under CAN, but maybe it'll be activated later?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20048/2017/10/16/advanced

Also note that this working starts on the 16th of October, so is likely there to cater for any Class 800 services.

Cheers Albie. Be interesting to see, I'm guessing it won't run on the wires until January 2018? Or maybe it will, with testing scheduled for next month in and around the Reading area, maybe it will be able to run on the wires? Or maybe it will run OLE as far as Maidenhead, then drop the pantograph and speed from there to Reading? Then put it up again and Reading, then drop it again at Didcot! Seems a lot of chopping and changing in order to get the right efficiency. Maybe they will see that and they will run diesel only until January 2018?
 

DaveHarries

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Morning all,

It seems that Class 800s, at least from Bristol Temple Meads, will start service on 16th October: the ECS moves between Bristol Temple Meads and Stoke Gifford for Class 800s heading out on / returning from passenger service start to appear in schedules on RealTimeTrains from that date.

As things stand, for 16th October only two are shown:
- 5A03 0445 Stoke Gifford - Bristol Temple Meads (this will be the first out)
- 5C27 2109 Bristol Temple Meads - Stoke Gifford

This remains until 13th November when the number of ECS movements increases to four:
- 5A03 0445 Stoke Gifford - Bristol Temple Meads
- 5A04 0545 Stoke Gifford - Bristol Temple Meads
- 5C24 1925 Bristol Temple Meads - Stoke Gifford
- 5C27 2109 Bristol Temple Meads - Stoke Gifford

Swansea Malliphant CSD has nothing showing on RTT before the end of November in terms of 800s leaving depot to enter service.

HTIOI,
Dave
 

JonathanH

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There is a depot at the London end as well

5C03 0633 North Pole Iep Depot to London Paddington
5L90 2051 London Paddington to North Pole Iep Depot

appear from 16 October

and

5B05 0618 North Pole Iep Depot to London Paddington
5L62 1552 London Paddington to North Pole Iep Depot
5C24 1701 North Pole Iep Depot to London Paddington
5A37 0045 London Paddington to North Pole Iep Depot

appear from 13 November
 

fishquinn

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Diagrams for Class 800s have started to appear in the system for October and November, according to poster Adelante_CCT at the Great Western Passengers' Forum.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10150.1035

From October 16

07:00 Paddington to Bristol TM
09:30 Bristol TM to Paddington
11:45 Paddington to Swansea
15:24 (15:29) Swansea to Paddington
19:00 Paddington to Bristol TM

06:00 Bristol TM to Paddington
08:15 Paddington to Cardiff
10:55 Cardiff to Paddington
13:45 Paddington to Swansea
17:24 (17:29) Swansea to Paddington

Plus from November 13

06:45 Paddington to Swansea
10:29 Swansea to Paddington
14:15 Paddington to Cardiff
16:56 Cardiff to Paddington

06:33 Bristol to Paddington
08:45 Paddington to Swansea
12:29 Swansea to Paddington
17:30 Paddington to Taunton
21:29 Taunton to Paddington
Is it just weekdays to start with then or will they also be working on weekends?
 

JonathanH

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Those diagrams don't balance because they don't take account of a pair of units splitting on the Taunton service.

1C24 1730 London Paddington to Taunton splits at Bristol Temple Meads - front unit works on to Taunton and back to Paddington on 1A37 2129 Taunton to London Paddington - rear unit goes 5C24 1925 Bristol Temple Meads to Stoke Gifford.

which begs the question as to which of the posted diagrams are 5/10-car workings.

What does the unit that works 1656 Cardiff Central to London Paddington do next?
 

Clarence Yard

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Those diagrams don't balance because they don't take account of a pair of units splitting on the Taunton service.

1C24 1730 London Paddington to Taunton splits at Bristol Temple Meads - front unit works on to Taunton and back to Paddington on 1A37 2129 Taunton to London Paddington - rear unit goes 5C24 1925 Bristol Temple Meads to Stoke Gifford.

which begs the question as to which of the posted diagrams are 5/10-car workings.

What does the unit that works 1656 Cardiff Central to London Paddington do next?

1C28 1930 Paddington to Bristol TM. One half to Stoke Gifford, other half to come back on 1A37, joining the other half (coming up from Taunton) at Bristol TM. That diagram "swop" at Bristol has been done to preserve Agility TARA maintenance windows.
 

tgrb

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If you were the sort of people to bet... would you buy a ticket for the 06:00 from Bristol TM on the 16/10/17 to get on the 1st 800 in passenger service on GWR?
 

JN114

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If you were the sort of people to bet... would you buy a ticket for the 06:00 from Bristol TM on the 16/10/17 to get on the 1st 800 in passenger service on GWR?

Yes, I would
 

Master29

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Diagrams for Class 800s have started to appear in the system for October and November, according to poster Adelante_CCT at the Great Western Passengers' Forum.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10150.1035

From October 16

07:00 Paddington to Bristol TM
09:30 Bristol TM to Paddington
11:45 Paddington to Swansea
15:24 (15:29) Swansea to Paddington
19:00 Paddington to Bristol TM

06:00 Bristol TM to Paddington
08:15 Paddington to Cardiff
10:55 Cardiff to Paddington
13:45 Paddington to Swansea
17:24 (17:29) Swansea to Paddington

Plus from November 13

06:45 Paddington to Swansea
10:29 Swansea to Paddington
14:15 Paddington to Cardiff
16:56 Cardiff to Paddington

06:33 Bristol to Paddington
08:45 Paddington to Swansea
12:29 Swansea to Paddington
17:30 Paddington to Taunton
21:29 Taunton to Paddington

This is not what this user says. They mention "rumours" and "VAR" on the diagram. Not necessarily a class 800. Don`t quote it as factual.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Yes I would.

You'd probably lose your money. I will be very surprised if there is much (if any) electric running before Christmas. Drivers have to be assessed driving them in electric mode before being able to take them like that in passenger service, and to date only diesel-mode handling has occurred. There is also still a restriction in place on the safety certification for GWR that pantographs can only be raised under test conditions and at a maximum of 20mph which makes it all a bit too difficult at present.
 

D1009

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You'd probably lose your money. I will be very surprised if there is much (if any) electric running before Christmas. Drivers have to be assessed driving them in electric mode before being able to take them like that in passenger service, and to date only diesel-mode handling has occurred. There is also still a restriction in place on the safety certification for GWR that pantographs can only be raised under test conditions and at a maximum of 20mph which makes it all a bit too difficult at present.
Still 6+ weeks to go though.
 

Mag_seven

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I hope that given they will start to be introduced during the leaf fall season that they don't all end up with 50p piece wheels at the end of the first week!
 

Triumph

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those diagrams don't balance because they don't take account of a pair of units splitting on the taunton service.

1c24 1730 london paddington to taunton splits at bristol temple meads - front unit works on to taunton and back to paddington on 1a37 2129 taunton to london paddington - rear unit goes 5c24 1925 bristol temple meads to stoke gifford.

Which begs the question as to which of the posted diagrams are 5/10-car workings.

What does the unit that works 1656 cardiff central to london paddington do next?
1c28 1930 pad -bri
 

The Planner

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a) Correct. There are some DfT draft timings going back years but they are not now officially recognised by NR. As the units are now going to be heavier and operate at 125 on diesel, they need to be compiled again. Time is running out for Dec 2018 as GWR have to bid a timetable to NR in March 2018 with these new timings in the national train planning system.

That's hilarious, I bet GWR are losing the plot over that. Mind you they always love a good spot bid after the event.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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But who does that benefit? In the short run, GWR are prevented from improving journey times, so the passengers suffer as does their bottom line. In the long run, Network Rail loses what little face they still have and the media have a field day. Everyone loses - how hilarious is that now?
 

The Planner

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Oh untwist your knickers, having seen this so many times its hilarious to me. Believe me NEITHER side in this looks good.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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I must admit I fail to see a side that brings NR out in any kind of positive light. The SRTs that DfT developed with NR would be perfectly adequate had the electrification deadlines not slipped so badly. Given that Network Rail aren't in the habit of cheerfully accepting sectional timings proposed by TOCs - it has to go through all the modelling regardless - you'd have thought a bit of sensible prioritisation would be in order. But then we are talking about NR.
 
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