Paperless rail tickets across UK by 2019 - Chris Grayling

[goblinuser]

Ticketing is a nightmare currently, however many older people struggle to use a TVM or Oyster Card, let alone a smartphone. Discriminatory in my opinion if the paper tickets become more expensive.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Ticketing is a nightmare currently, however many older people struggle to use a TVM or Oyster Card, let alone a smartphone. Discriminatory in my opinion if the paper tickets become more expensive.

Totally agree - my senior clientele I know don't want it/ struggle with it/have no idea when it comes to internet/technology.

I see plenty of younger people who come in and say they've been looking at the internet and get make any sense of it. The trouble is the UK rail fare system is not simple- its an out of control monster and unless you have a working knowledge of how it works you cant make informed choices as to what the best button to click on a website.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I'll remember that the next time I have a 10 minute queue at the ticket office, meaning that I miss my train and have to wait another hour for the next train.

Or when I have a 10 minute wait at the ticket machine to collect my Advance ticket, meaning that I miss my reserved train and have to buy a full priced Anytime ticket. And then wait an hour for the next train.

The hold up is probably caused by someone ahead of you complaining that "I bought these tickets on the internet and they got it wrong" or someone attempting to to persuade the TVM to issue an orange ticket with their M ticket refernce number.

The outright degree of faffing about by customers who have bought tickets online has to be seen to be believed. My favorite are the online purchasers who expect a TVM which we don't have here and when they release theirs a human being serving them glaze over with excitement and expect bucket loads of customer service they never got off the website when booking or would from a TVM if one was here. Often the conversation contains them being told they've spent more £ than they should have by booking online.

Don't get we wrong there should be smart ticketing around London and the other Metropolitan centers for the high volume regular local journey markets. However there also needs to be proper facilities for the elderly/others that cant/don't want to use technology and irregular travelers.

 

[Gareth Marston]

This is precisely why I believe the current smartcard system is a dead end. A lack of inter availability and consistency is literally designed into something that’s taken almost a decade longer than intended to implement, and still doesn’t work.

The words “p*ss-up” and “brewery” spring to mind.

The massive irony of course is that if Grayling had BR still in situ it would a lot easier as there would only be one organization with one system to deal with........

 

[Gareth Marston]

I arrive at the station. I tell the booking clerk where I want to go. He/she sells me the ticket. If I have a query he/she answers.

Personally far quicker than faffing about with my "device" ... whatever that might be.

Someone prating about with a mobile phone is the last thing you want at the Booking Office window when a train is due and others need tickets.

And indeed with onboard ticket checks - Ive seen a Conductor whip through a carriage doing orange tickets and then get stuck with the person who has their ticket on their phone but has forgotten to activtae it, cant get a signal cant find the e mail etc.

 

[ooo]

Stations without a booking office have roving RPIs, arriving 10 mins before a train to set up a makeshift booking office which closes 1 minute before rail service departure for infrequent services/stays open 1st-last service otherwise.

Simples

So you will need multiple teams of rpis to cover a single little used train. Hardly a cost effective way to do it

 

[shredder1]

Ticketing is a nightmare currently, however many older people struggle to use a TVM or Oyster Card, let alone a smartphone. Discriminatory in my opinion if the paper tickets become more expensive.

At 66, I don`t use a smart phone and I struggle with the ticketing system as it is.

 

[bussnapperwm]

So you will need multiple teams of rpis to cover a single little used train. Hardly a cost effective way to do it

But the revenue collected would outweigh the costs of a few blokes standing there at various stations for 10-20 minutes with a ticket machine.

it'd stop the Disputes and Prosecutions thread from going crazy!

 

[Qwerty133]

But the revenue collected would outweigh the costs of a few blokes standing there at various stations for 10-20 minutes with a ticket machine.

it'd stop the Disputes and Prosecutions thread from going crazy!

Presumably no-one would be interested in working for only 20 minutes at a time anyway so the whole thing is unworkable (they'll be very few sets of stations that will be able to share a member of staff under this proposal).

 

[Llanigraham]

But the revenue collected would outweigh the costs of a few blokes standing there at various stations for 10-20 minutes with a ticket machine.

it'd stop the Disputes and Prosecutions thread from going crazy!

Do please tell me how you will organise that on lines such as the Cambrian, or the Heart of Wales?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Do please tell me how you will organise that on lines such as the Cambrian, or the Heart of Wales?

Easy. Those stations that have under a set amount of passengers should close. Say those with less than 1500 exits and entries. Put TVM and barriers on stations where RPIs are impractical for those remaining open and barrier ALL stations that have a permanent ticket office, along with manning them from first to last train.

The expenditure can easily be paid for by paying all drivers and conductors one maximum salary which doesn't take the Michael with the guards and drivers employed by one company, the TOCs taking drivers and conductors on a long term lease, like how they have trains.

Hell, if needs be recruit ex Parking Wardens and ex Coppers for Revenue jobs if need be.

 

[Via Bank]

I can’t help but wonder what planet a lot of the people in this thread are on.

True, some people may not have a smartphone and may not have a clue about technology. Many people, however, do - including my 60-year-old mum. Why should she be inconvenienced by having to queue for a ticket if the technology exists for her to pay for a ticket and download an Apple Wallet pass to her phone?

Paper tickets won’t go away for a very long time. They still exist in the Netherlands (albeit as disposable OV-chipkaarts for which a small surplus is charged.) This does not stop them from also providing a comprehensive and convenient e-ticket offering for people who want to use it.

 

[fairysdad]

Do please tell me how you will organise that on lines such as the Cambrian, or the Heart of Wales?

Put them on the trains, perhaps have them walking up and down as the train goes on its journey.

 

[Llanigraham]

Easy. Those stations that have under a set amount of passengers should close. Say those with less than 1500 exits and entries. Put TVM and barriers on stations where RPIs are impractical for those remaining open and barrier ALL stations that have a permanent ticket office, along with manning them from first to last train.

So to hell with what other transport is available, or how remote the area is! What a charming attitude you have to people who don't live in your wonderful urban environment!

The expenditure can easily be paid for by paying all drivers and conductors one maximum salary which doesn't take the Michael with the guards and drivers employed by one company, the TOCs taking drivers and conductors on a long term lease, like how they have trains.

Wow!! What are you on about?

Hell, if needs be recruit ex Parking Wardens and ex Coppers for Revenue jobs if need be.

And that one you will have to explain as well, as it doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Llanigraham]

Put them on the trains, perhaps have them walking up and down as the train goes on its journey.

Funnily enough, that is what has happened here for years!

 

[Clip]

Ticketing is a nightmare currently, however many older people struggle to use a TVM or Oyster Card, let alone a smartphone. Discriminatory in my opinion if the paper tickets become more expensive.

has anyone said paper tickets would become more expensive or is it just more hyperbole ?

 

[Clip]

I can’t help but wonder what planet a lot of the people in this thread are on.

True, some people may not have a smartphone and may not have a clue about technology. Many people, however, do - including my 60-year-old mum. Why should she be inconvenienced by having to queue for a ticket if the technology exists for her to pay for a ticket and download an Apple Wallet pass to her phone?

.

Don't worry - lots of people play the 'old person' card in these discussions thinking that theyre all immobile and too docile to use a mobile phone or pc.

 

[curly42]

At 66, I don`t use a smart phone and I struggle with the ticketing system as it is.

I don't have a mobile phone or a credit card,so it's cash and paper for me.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Since VTWC failed to download my M-Ticket that last time I bought one, I will not be using mobile tickets at all

 

[gordonthemoron]

also, you can't buy Mobile Travelcards

 

[goblinuser]

has anyone said paper tickets would become more expensive or is it just more hyperbole ?

Naturally they will as we've seen in London with the introduction of Oyster. The old system will also cost more to maintain and with less people using it the temptation to increase fares will arise.

Don't worry - lots of people play the 'old person' card in these discussions thinking that theyre all immobile and too docile to use a mobile phone or pc.

Sorry, you are completely wrong. Do you know any older people? Lots of them struggle with buying a ticket any other way than talking to the booking office clerk. I know this from first hand experience, and it is something people are trying very hard to ignore. We may be in the internet age - but many many 65+ are still fully in the analogue world. It's discriminatory to penalise these people and ignore that they exist when designing new public systems and services.

 

[methethpropbut]

I'm 21 and I hate e-ticketing with a passion Perfectly okay with order-online-and-collect, just give me that damned piece of orange card for peace of mind!

We exist.

 

[radamfi]

has anyone said paper tickets would become more expensive or is it just more hyperbole ?

Does any country charge more for tickets on paper than mobile tickets? The Netherlands charge 1 euro extra for buying a single use smartcard but almost all native public transport users have the nationwide smartcard anyway.

It does seem peculiar that we still have to pick up online tickets from the machine. DB got rid of that facility long ago even before the days of smartphones as print at home tickets were so successful. They have allowed walk on tickets to be printed for many years. Now there are smartphones there is no longer the inconvenience of having to print out the ticket.

 

[Via Bank]

I'm 21 and I hate e-ticketing with a passion Perfectly okay with order-online-and-collect, just give me that damned piece of orange card for peace of mind!

We exist.

Well, I hate having to queue at a kiosk to laboriously key in a booking reference (which proves I've paid), in order to wait for up to two minutes for a machine to print out flimsy, single-use, easily-losable orange coupons (which prove I've paid.) Bonus points if you have a multi-leg journey, multiple tickets on one booking, seat reservations, bicycle reservations, etc. all of which the machine seems to print in no particular order, combined with at least one receipt coupon and sometimes the odd coupon that reads VOID VOID VOID.

I fail to see how a decent and consistent mobile and/or print-at-home ticketing offering for those who want it (and there are many who do) is in any way a bad thing. When I was regularly travelling for work at short notice, two or three days a week, it would have saved me a significant amount of time, and at least one penalty fare from a mislaid paper ticket.

 

[methethpropbut]

Well, I hate having to queue at a kiosk to laboriously key in a booking reference (which proves I've paid), in order to wait for up to two minutes for a machine to print out flimsy, single-use, easily-losable orange coupons (which prove I've paid.) Bonus points if you have a multi-leg journey, multiple tickets on one booking, seat reservations, bicycle reservations, etc. all of which the machine seems to print in no particular order, combined with at least one receipt coupon and sometimes the odd coupon that reads VOID VOID VOID.

I fail to see how a decent and consistent mobile and/or print-at-home ticketing offering for those who want it (and there are many who do) is in any way a bad thing. When I was regularly travelling for work at short notice, two or three days a week, it would have saved me a significant amount of time, and at least one penalty fare from a mislaid paper ticket.

I agree with you, options are a good thing but as you said for those who want it. I guess I was jumping on he above bits about people 65+ who are fully in the analogue world - nope there's those who are way younger too

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well, I hate having to queue at a kiosk to laboriously key in a booking reference (which proves I've paid), in order to wait for up to two minutes for a machine to print out flimsy, single-use, easily-losable orange coupons (which prove I've paid.) Bonus points if you have a multi-leg journey, multiple tickets on one booking, seat reservations, bicycle reservations, etc. all of which the machine seems to print in no particular order, combined with at least one receipt coupon and sometimes the odd coupon that reads VOID VOID VOID.

I fail to see how a decent and consistent mobile and/or print-at-home ticketing offering for those who want it (and there are many who do) is in any way a bad thing. When I was regularly travelling for work at short notice, two or three days a week, it would have saved me a significant amount of time, and at least one penalty fare from a mislaid paper ticket.

Getting rid of TOD should be the next step, it will free station TVM's and Booking Office Windows up for the bulk of people who want to have orange tickets bought on the day as their infrequent travelers. Those that want to buy online get and conned by Trainline can have Bar Code to SMART Phone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m with the Dutch. Add a quid to prices to purchase or collect at the station, and people will move to print at home and mobile. Two quid for the ticket office to stop people queueing there to purchase simple stuff available from the TVM.

 

[PeterC]

I agree with you, options are a good thing but as you said for those who want it. I guess I was jumping on he above bits about people 65+ who are fully in the analogue world - nope there's those who are way younger too

65+? You mean all those retired people who spent their working lives developing the digital technology that they suddenly don't understand?

 

[boxy321]

Yesterday an elderly couple were flummoxed by the ticket barriers at Coventry. They were stood on the floor plates so the anti-tailgating mechanism kicked in. This was immediately after the rush hour 390 to Euston had left and boy it was busy.

I walked over to the main barrier section because of this and two (presumably) student girls were panicking as they had never used barriers at all. I said, "watch what I do" and one girl had both of their tickets while the other was videoing proceedings on the phone. Finally the gate guard told them what to do.

My point is, no matter what age, many have no idea whatsoever. I'm certainly nervous of trying contactless in London in case it doesn't work.

 

[FenMan]

A considerable number of over 65s have never worked with, let alone developed, digital technology.