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Being asked to show PRIV card when travelling.

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greyman42

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When I travel on a priv ticket I regularly get asked to show my priv. I have no objection to doing so but this seems to be a recent thing. In the past I was never asked for my priv and am curious to know why it has recently started, Has there been an increase in fraudulent use of staff privs ?
 
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Clip

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No idea what part of the country try you're in but I was always asked to show it and I'm always asked to show my spouse oyster still if checked on train.

People should always be asked to show it imo
 

87015

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People should always be asked to show it imo
Almost certainly going to increase to totally required if the planned rollout of PRIV to ticket machines comes to fruition, as I can't see them locking it down a different way...
 

IanXC

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Almost certainly going to increase to totally required if the planned rollout of PRIV to ticket machines comes to fruition, as I can't see them locking it down a different way...

Hmm. For ticket machines the only other way would seem to be for PRIV cards to be issued as ITSO as it would seem the direction of travel is for all TVMs to have readers therefore allowing validation of the discount.

Other than that mobile ticketing could be a good way of nailing down access to these discounted tickets.
 

AndrewE

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in 40-plus years I don't think I have ever been asked to show my priv card on the train. Show it when buying a ticket, of course, but not during a ticket check. It may be that it's always been pulled out of a wallet that has the priv card visible in it though...
 

philthetube

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I have never been asked to show my priv card, probably because I always present it with my ticket. I feel it is a common cutesy to staff not to make their job any more difficult than necessary, they shouldn't need to ask.
 

306024

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I have never been asked to show my priv card, probably because I always present it with my ticket. I feel it is a common cutesy to staff not to make their job any more difficult than necessary, they shouldn't need to ask.

Totally agree. Was taught to do that many years ago.
 

Elecman

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Totally agree. Was taught to do that many years ago.
Quite, I always show mine ( and wife's) ID and April card when presenting either the dated priv card or a Priv ticket. It's a courtesy to the staff concerned, even if they don't bother to do more than a very coursery glance at either of them.
 

AndrewE

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Just looked this up the Rail Delivery Group T&C web page:
"Staff travel facilities (e.g. cards, passes or coupons) must be shown (together with any Photo Identity Card or other supporting documents where they are required) and/or handed over upon request to a member of staff, or agents, or the staff of agents of any carrier on whose service a journey is undertaken using issued staff travel facilities. You must hold valid staff travel facilities throughout the entire journey and keep them available for inspection at all times.[my bold]​

So perhaps it is mandatory that ID cards are presented at every ticket check to support the use of a priv ticket? (I assume Staff Travel Facilities includes them as well as free passes etc.)
P.s. being retired I don't have anything more than the boxes/ID travel card now)
 

Busaholic

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I only had use of a Priv card for a few years in the early 1970s, so well back in BR days, but I do seem to remember being asked to produce it on a few occasions then.
 

Elecman

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So perhaps it is mandatory that ID cards are presented at every ticket check to support the use of a priv ticket? (I assume Staff Travel Facilities includes them as well as free passes etc.)
P.s. being retired I don't have anything more than the boxes/ID travel card now)

Correct, you have to show your Staff/Spouse/Dependant Photo ID when using your Priv boxes and both the ID and Staff Travel card when using a Priv ticket.
 

Sprinter153

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When I travel on a priv ticket I regularly get asked to show my priv. I have no objection to doing so but this seems to be a recent thing. In the past I was never asked for my priv and am curious to know why it has recently started, Has there been an increase in fraudulent use of staff privs ?

East Midlands Trains have started being very attentive to checking priv cards and photocards in recent weeks, and cancelling all tickets, for some reason. Most of their staff never used to care. I always show mine without being asked but it's certainly being examined more and more closely lately.
 

fireftrm

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I've never dreamt of not showing my Staff Card and Photocard - why wouldn't you? You would not allow someone with a Railcard not to do so , so why should staff travel discount cards be any different? The point is that a staff card holder could otherwise be buying tickets for mates, surely?
 

AndrewE

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I tend to keep precious things (like credit cards and my priv travel / ID card) well inside my clothing especially when I'm in a crowd, and just have the ticket in my hand to show or put through a barrier reader. So no, it wouldn't always be easily available.
Re-reading the quote in #9, I think it is saying that you have to show the proof of entitlement whenever requested, not that you must show it automatically every time you show a ticket. It definitely causes delays at ticket barriers if you're not expecting it.
 

0B00

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In this part of the world we have trouble getting staff to sell us a ticket. I have 'crossed out' boxes (i.e. only get Priv not Free travel). I'm happy with that but many guards won't sell us a ticket and wave us away. Then we encounter the few that do want to charge and we get hassle for not buying a ticket. My son travelled on Merseyrail from Liverpool Central to Shrewsbury last week and was told in no uncertain terms that he would NOT be sold a ticket as 'they are not needed on Merseyrail' as undated boxes are accepted for unlimited free travel. So he ended up missing his connection at Chester as he had to go to the ticket office there to buy his Priv ticket.
 

AndrewE

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A small price to pay for such a heavily discounted product wouldn't you say?

It is a contractual entitlement as it was part of our pay, actually. The civil service got a non-contributary pension, we got exactly the same salary for similar grades, and we got privs and 4 free passes a year - and paid 15% of our pre-tax wages into the superannuation fund. Given that a lot of railway staff didn't use trains which do you think was the better deal?
The point is that if you have shown it to buy a ticket in the first place (because there is nowhere other than at a manned ticket office that you can get one) and you have shown it if requested on a train, then it's a bit vexing to suddenly have to dig it out again and interrupt the flow at a barrier. Perhaps you didn't see that bit of the grumble.
 

greyman42

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No idea what part of the country try you're in but I was always asked to show it and I'm always asked to show my spouse oyster still if checked on train.

People should always be asked to show it imo
Mainly when travelling VTEC.
 

AndrewE

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What is a PRIV card? Is it a BR/TOC pass?
I didn't use the word "Pass" as that implies an authority to travel [free] which is a status pass. As a retired Safeguarded employee I get a piece of card with boxes on it that allow travel on the day you fill in the date (and the day after) but it seems that some people have no boxes... It also allows you to buy quarter fare tickets on participating parts of our railway... As far as I can see that means all proper TOCs, but open-access operators are a law unto themselves.
 

greyman42

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Hmm. For ticket machines the only other way would seem to be for PRIV cards to be issued as ITSO as it would seem the direction of travel is for all TVMs to have readers therefore allowing validation of the discount.

Other than that mobile ticketing could be a good way of nailing down access to these discounted tickets.
What is ITSO ?
 

PudseyBearHST

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I didn't use the word "Pass" as that implies an authority to travel [free] which is a status pass. As a retired Safeguarded employee I get a piece of card with boxes on it that allow travel on the day you fill in the date (and the day after) but it seems that some people have no boxes... It also allows you to buy quarter fare tickets on participating parts of our railway... As far as I can see that means all proper TOCs, but open-access operators are a law unto themselves.

Ok thanks mate.
 

IanXC

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The point is that if you have shown it to buy a ticket in the first place (because there is nowhere other than at a manned ticket office that you can get one) and you have shown it if requested on a train, then it's a bit vexing to suddenly have to dig it out again and interrupt the flow at a barrier. Perhaps you didn't see that bit of the grumble.

I suppose whether a manual barrier or an automatic one, the 'factors of interest' will determine whether further questions/seek assistance are set. There is probably a good case for issuing, certainly active staff, with some kind of gatepass.

What is ITSO ?

A Smartcard, virtually every transport smart card outside of Oyster is to ITSO standard, so enabling interoperability.
 

High Dyke

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Quite, I always show mine ( and wife's) ID and April card when presenting either the dated priv card or a Priv ticket. It's a courtesy to the staff concerned, even if they don't bother to do more than a very coursery glance at either of them.
I quite agree. Always have it ready to show, regardless of being asked for it.

Funnily enough your comment about the "cursory glance" reminds of my trip last week in 1st class on EMT to London. The train was a mid-morning weekday departure from Nottingham so wasn't overly busy. The catering staff merely asked if I had a valid ticket, but didn't pay that much attention to my priv - I had dated a box. Midway through the journey the guard came through and asked to see my Priv. I showed him and heard him point out to the respective member of the catering team that I had dated a box.
 

AndrewE

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I quite agree. Always have it ready to show, regardless of being asked for it.
Midway through the journey the guard came through and asked to see my Priv. I showed him and heard him point out to the respective member of the catering team that I had dated a box.

I had something like that once when a conductor announced loudly to us (to be heard by all the other people in the coach) that as we were staff we were forbidden to take anything other than soft drinks or tea or coffee. The fact that we had already declined all the food offered by the catering staff seemed to have passed him by. A friend who was a very senior person in the same TOC said we should have made a formal complaint about it...
 

Clip

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It is a contractual entitlement as it was part of our pay, actually. The civil service got a non-contributary pension, we got exactly the same salary for similar grades, and we got privs and 4 free passes a year - and paid 15% of our pre-tax wages into the superannuation fund. Given that a lot of railway staff didn't use trains which do you think was the better deal?
The point is that if you have shown it to buy a ticket in the first place (because there is nowhere other than at a manned ticket office that you can get one) and you have shown it if requested on a train, then it's a bit vexing to suddenly have to dig it out again and interrupt the flow at a barrier. Perhaps you didn't see that bit of the grumble.

Oh insaw all of the grumble dont worry but my point still stands.

Of course just because you bought the ticket doesnt mean that it was you who rightfully travlled on it.
 

ag51ruk

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I suppose whether a manual barrier or an automatic one, the 'factors of interest' will determine whether further questions/seek assistance are set. There is probably a good case for issuing, certainly active staff, with some kind of gatepass.

Silver Status Passes are already issued as ITSO cards (and work most gatelines in the South East, although not all and very few elsewhere). A few TOCs will provide journey-specific gatepasses for active staff making residential journeys (London Midland being one) but Virgin Trains and EMT won't.

The only time I buy Priv tickets now is on Heathrow Express, it would never occur to me not to show my Staff Travel Card with the ticket - it's so little effort and makes the staff's job easier so why wouldn't you?
 

AndrewE

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, it would never occur to me not to show my Staff Travel Card with the ticket - it's so little effort and makes the staff's job easier so why wouldn't you?
try reading the first line of post 13
 

306024

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try reading the first line of post 13

Or perhaps post 14?

Of course it is all too much hassle you could always buy a full fare ticket. Not sure you are going to get too much sympathy here mate.
 
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