Irish Republic passenger closure dates?

[Calthrop]

Would wish to pick the brains of people learned about Irish railway matters: concerning dates of withdrawal of passenger services on assorted 5ft. 3in. gauge branch lines in the Irish Republic. I gather that -- especially when such closures took place in the 1960s -- total abandonment was often concurrent with passenger withdrawal; and on the whole, I think I'm fairly cognisant with which lines continued in use for freight "of some shape or make", and for how long, after passenger services ended. Passenger withdrawal dates though, I'm fairly vague on -- would be grateful to be informed.

Lines concerned -- no particular order...


Banteer -- Newmarket

Woodenbridge -- Shillelagh (early-ish, I'm thinking -- 1940s or before?)

Macmine Junction -- Waterford

Bagenalstown -- Palace East (pass. early 30s, I have an inkling -- lasted much longer for freight-only)

Thurles -- Clonmel

Roscrea -- Birr

Birdhill -- Killaloe

Ballingrane -- Foynes

Enfield -- Edenderry (pass. service withdrawn pre-WW2, I suspect)

Port Laiose -- Mountmellick

Streamstown -- Clara

Clara -- Banagher

Kilfree Jun. -- Ballaghadereen

Claremorris -- Ballinrobe


And: victims, I suspect (perhaps mistakenly) of the fuel shortage in the bitter winter of 1946 / 47 (passenger services suspended, supposedly temporarily, but never resumed) -- please correct me if mistaken.

Sallins -- Tullow

Goolds Cross -- Cashel

Fermoy -- Mitchelstown

Kilmessan -- Athboy

Crossdoney -- Killashandra


And finally, two branches in the Republic, of the Great Northern Railway of Ireland:

Drogheda -- Navan -- Oldcastle (I have 1958 dimly in mind, but am not sure whether that's right).

Dromin -- Ardee (pass. service withdrawn pre- WW2??)


Would be very grateful for any enlightenment on this matter.

 

[Elwyn]

According to Johnson’s Atlas (pub 1997), here’s some of the information you want:


Banteer – Newmarket closed 27.1.1947 except for cattle specials and excursions. Re-opened 1.6.1956 for daily goods. Closed completely 4.2.1963.


Woodenbridge to Shillelagh closed to passengers 24.4.1944. Shillelagh to Aughrim closed to goods 20.4.1945. Woodenbridge to Aughrim closed completely 1.5.1953.


Macmine to Waterford North. Macmine to New Ross closed to passengers 1.4.1963, and to goods on 6.9.1976. Remains open to fertilizer traffic. (However that’s not correct as the line is long lifted).


Bagenalstown – Palace East. Closed to passengers 2.2.1931. Closed to good except specials 27.1.1947. Closed completely 1.4.1963.


Birdhill – Killaloe Closed to passengers 17.7.1931 and to goods 24.4.1944.


Ballingrane – Foynes closed to passengers 4.2.1963. I don’t have a date for goods closure but it was probably post 1997. The branch is currently severed at its connection with the main line in Limerick but there is occasional talk of re-instating it for freight. It would need completely re-laid though as the rails are life expired.


Thurles – Clonmel closed to passengers 9.9.1963 and to goods 27.3.1967. Thurles junction to Powerstown park lifted 1971. Powerstown park to Clonmel junction used as a siding, lifted after the rest of the line.


Roscrea – Birr closed completely 1.1.1963.


Enfield – Edenderry closed to passengers 1.6.1931, and too goods on 1.1.1935 save for livestock specials. Closed completely 1.4.1963.

 

[Hornet]

This might help.

 

[Hornet]

1906 Map

 

[Hornet]

Notes to go with the PDF in post 3 on this thread.

 

[Calthrop]

Many thanks, gentlemen. Hornet: I'm undergoing -- hopefully temporary, and addressable in the meantime bit-by-bit, but not instantly -- computer-type woes; which have meant that so far, I've only had an opportunity to look very briefly at the PDFs which you furnish -- which will clearly be invaluable. I should be able to do them justice a couple of days from now; and, my grateful thanks.

It does seem that there was quite a holocaust in 1963 (I'm aware that in that year, passenger services also ended on Limerick -- Tralee and Claremorris -- Collooney [-- Sligo] ). Britain's Railway Magazine, certainly back then, covered events in the Irish Republic with admirable diligence, so no doubt I was aware of these many closures happening at the time; but over the decades, the memory tends to get hazy...

 

[Billy A]

The big closure was the Bandon and West Cork which straddled 1963 as it were - passenger traffic ceased in 1961 and goods in I think 1965 with the last trains hauling away the rails and sleepers after which almost all trace - bar bridges and a couple of tunnels - was removed.

 

[Calthrop]

The big closure was the Bandon and West Cork which straddled 1963 as it were - passenger traffic ceased in 1961 and goods in I think 1965 with the last trains hauling away the rails and sleepers after which almost all trace - bar bridges and a couple of tunnels - was removed.

With respect -- my understanding has been that the West Cork system (former Cork, Bandon & South Coast Railway) was totally abandoned -- passenger and freight -- w.e.f. 1 / 4 / 1961. About which I've felt extremely sad from that day to this -- no matter that as of the early 1960s, the system had probably indeed become totally uneconomic.

The late J.I.C. Boyd, who made many visits to Ireland over very many decades, gives in his memoir Saga By Rail: Ireland, written in his old age -- a fascinating, if heartbreaking, recounting of a couple of days spent by him -- per his dating, in late summer 1962 -- riding on demolition trains, hauled by class B4 4-6-0Ts (ex-CBSCR, I believe), then engaged on lifting the track of the more westerly parts of the system. Boyd had been familiar with the West Cork system in happier times up to a decade earlier, when the Cork -- Bantry main line and its branches were still fully in action.

 

[Billy A]

I had understood that the last demolition train ran in 1965 and at one time there was a picture available showing a train loaded with scrap in one of the western stations (Dunmanway?) dated 1965 but of course I can't find it now!
Yes, it was horribly uneconomic. There's a book by Ernie Shepherd about the construction and operation and he relates how in 1960 or so the income was in the region of £130,000 (the majority of which was freight) and the expenditure something like £170,000. It's always been claimed that CIE spent money unnecessarily in the last year so as to make the figures look sufficiently bad that immediate closure was required.
There's a short film about the line here:

There used to be a better quality one with stills but it seems to have been taken down.
EDIT: found it and posted below

 

[Calthrop]

Thank you for the film link -- probably (with my computer problems) won't be able to access it till Monday -- am looking forward to that time coming !

For sure, the early 1960s were a bad time for CIE's lesser lines. If I have things right, the Valentia Harbour and Kenmare branches went in 1960 -- also the Waterford & Tramore; the West Clare in Jan. '61, and the West Cork in April of that same; and plenty more in '62 and, especially, '63. It might have been the only sense-making thing to do, but one doesn't have to like it...

 

[Billy A]

By coincidence I came across this picture today. There's a story that the lifting trains encountered not only grass growing along the track but small shrubs as well!

EDIT: Better quality film here if you can persuade it to run smoothly:
http://www.imdb.com/videoplayer/vi1542102297

 

[Calthrop]

Got the chance yesterday for a look (not an exhaustive one -- fullness of your info supplied, Hornet, is greatly appreciated; more will be attended to ASAP) at closure lists. Find that I was right with my list of branches which I suspected to have lost their passenger services as a result of 1946 / 47's fuel crisis -- didn't realise, though, that four of them kept freight for at least another half-decade (and Sallins -- Tullow, for longer). 27 / 1 / 1947 seems to have been the great "day of infamy": the end came -- as it turned out -- for the 3ft gauge Schull & Skibbereen on that day, too. (I'm aware of other lines which lasted longer for freight, than those in my list; but whose passenger services likewise wound up ending for good, in early 1947.)

Billy A, opportunity got to view the films -- utterly delightful, though very sad. Thanks again ! Was pleased to see featured, the horse-worked line to Shannonvale mill, off the Clonakilty branch. I recall a mid-1950s item from, I think, the British Railway Magazine; telling of that line's horse Paddy, reputedly covering a greater distance in service each month, than his northern counterpart Dick (who was, actually, female) of the Great Northern Railway's Fintona horse tram.

 

[Billy A]

I recognise only one section of the longer film - 3.00 to 3.30 or thereabouts is the Timoleague to Courtmacsherry line, heading out and then back. There's a walkway there now. There are at least two more walkways - one between Innishannon and Bandon and a short one running a kilometre or so through Togher, on the south side of Cork city.
Interestingly, the last passenger train on the CB&SC ran in 1964. It was a special organised by the Irish Railway Record Society and ran from Cork to Ballinhassig, probably all that was left by then.

 

[GM078]

Macmine to Waterford North. Macmine to New Ross closed to passengers 1.4.1963, and to goods on 6.9.1976. Remains open to fertilizer traffic. (However that’s not correct as the line is long lifted).

Fertilizer continued into the early 90s... last working over the line was an ill-fated weedspray train in 1995, weeds caught fire under the locos hauling thus ending the career of pioneer Irish GM No.121. A lot of the track remained until recent years but the road crossing at New Ross has been tarmacked over and the line is disconnected at Abbey Junction, Waterford.

Talk of a greenway, which probably is the best use for the line at this stage...

 

[Groningen]

I get a Clancool in Scotland. With Clancool, Ireland i get a "town" near Bandon (county Cork).

 

[duesselmartin]

Fertilizer continued into the early 90s... last working over the line was an ill-fated weedspray train in 1995, weeds caught fire under the locos hauling thus ending the career of pioneer Irish GM No.121. A lot of the track remained until recent years but the road crossing at New Ross has been tarmacked over and the line is disconnected at Abbey Junction, Waterford.

Talk of a greenway, which probably is the best use for the line at this stage...

I wonder why IE never tried an "Ennis" type solution for that line, ie. extending the ICs from Waterford to New Ross. Surely the town has passenger potential?

 

[Calthrop]

Coming back belatedly -- with ongoing computer troubles tending to frustrate me as regards "linking" matters -- thank you again, Hornet, for your lists; further consultation of which has just been possible, allowing filling-in for me of remaining gaps.

One observed oddity in the "main" list (the first link which you posted) -- that list shows re Ballinrobe station and thus the Claremorris -- Ballinrobe branch: closure to goods and total abandonment w.e.f. 1 / 1 / 1960; but withdrawal of passenger service w.e.f. 1 / 6 / 1930. I'd suggest that this last, is an error. I'm sure I recall reading in British-published rail journals in the mid-to-late 1950s, of the Ballinrobe branch then still having a passenger service (steam to, anyway a late date); and various Googled items would seem to confirm the branch's having kept a passenger service right to the end -- the whole thing abandoned w.e.f. 1 / 1 / 1960.

 

[DT611]

Coming back belatedly -- with ongoing computer troubles tending to frustrate me as regards "linking" matters -- thank you again, Hornet, for your lists; further consultation of which has just been possible, allowing filling-in for me of remaining gaps.

One observed oddity in the "main" list (the first link which you posted) -- that list shows re Ballinrobe station and thus the Claremorris -- Ballinrobe branch: closure to goods and total abandonment w.e.f. 1 / 1 / 1960; but withdrawal of passenger service w.e.f. 1 / 6 / 1930. I'd suggest that this last, is an error. I'm sure I recall reading in British-published rail journals in the mid-to-late 1950s, of the Ballinrobe branch then still having a passenger service (steam to, anyway a late date); and various Googled items would seem to confirm the branch's having kept a passenger service right to the end -- the whole thing abandoned w.e.f. 1 / 1 / 1960.

that is my understanding of the situation also, that the branch had a passenger service until closure, which i think, was in 1959.
Maybe the passenger service was going to stop in 1930 but it got a reprieve?

 

[Billy A]

that is my understanding of the situation also, that the branch had a passenger service until closure, which i think, was in 1959.
Maybe the passenger service was going to stop in 1930 but it got a reprieve?

It's also possible that regular passenger services were abandoned but that occasional excursions were run as on the Courtmacsherry line which closed to regular passenger traffic in 1947 but continued for summer trips until 1960.

 

[DT611]

It's also possible that regular passenger services were abandoned but that occasional excursions were run as on the Courtmacsherry line which closed to regular passenger traffic in 1947 but continued for summer trips until 1960.

That is also a possibility, but my understanding was regular passenger services did continue to the end.

 

[Calthrop]

Further re Ballinrobe: as mentioned by me above, I recall an article in a British railway journal (Trains Illustrated ?) of 1956, which I unfortunately no longer possess, giving an overview of CIE's services and motive power in the summer of that year; which gave Claremorris -- Ballinrobe as with a regular daily passenger service.

Also, a clue in J.I.C. Boyd's book Saga by Rail: Ireland, which I mentioned upthread. Fascinating book, but written when the author was in his mid-eighties: on the whole, good reading and seemingly on the ball re memories -- but it would appear that in old age, this formerly meticulously accurate railway historian gets a few things muddled in Saga... He tells of running a group tour in May 1958 of the "west and mid-north" of the Republic -- including a farewell visit to the 3ft gauge Cavan & Leitrim system, which would be gone less than a year thence. Tour itinerary which he gives, includes the Ballinrobe and Ballaghaderreen branches (both then still steam-worked); but it's evident that he "transposes" the two B-names ! Evidence nonetheless, that passenger to Ballinrobe was active as at 1958 -- general consensus would seem to be that the branch was closed completely at the end of 1959.

Supposing that the Ballinrobe branch had lost its passenger service in 1930 -- would that not have been one of the Great Southern Railways' very first closures, coeval with the Crossbarry -- Kinsale branch of the CBSC system; that one abandoned totally in 1930?

 

[Hornet]

Coming back belatedly -- with ongoing computer troubles tending to frustrate me as regards "linking" matters -- thank you again, Hornet, for your lists; further consultation of which has just been possible, allowing filling-in for me of remaining gaps.

The list I provided is from the link as supplied below. I saved it into a word doc for my own personal use a few years back, so that I can tie it up to the info in the Johnson Irish Rail Atlas that I have. That also contains a wealth of information that you might find useful.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/Ireland/Irish_railways.pdf

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781857800449/Johnsons-Atlas-Gazetteer-Railways-Ireland-1857800443/plp

You may find this website interesting, if you have not previously seen it.

http://eiretrains.com/stationindex/

Hope the above helps.

 

[Hornet]

Further to my last post, just dug out my Johnson Irish Atlas. In this it states the following for Ballinrobe :-

Claremorris to Ballinrobe opened on the 01/11/1892 by the Ballinrobe & Claremorris Light Railway.
Passenger Services suspended on the 24/02/1947 due to fuel shortages.
Goods Services suspended on the 10/03/1947.
Passenger & Goods Services resumed on the 24/05/1947.
Closed completely on the 01/01/1960 by Coras Iompair Eireann.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[Calthrop]

The list I provided is from the link as supplied below. I saved it into a word doc for my own personal use a few years back, so that I can tie it up to the info in the Johnson Irish Rail Atlas that I have. That also contains a wealth of information that you might find useful.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/Ireland/Irish_railways.pdf

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781857800449/Johnsons-Atlas-Gazetteer-Railways-Ireland-1857800443/plp

Hornet, as ever -- my thanks.

From the abebooks reference, looks highly interesting and worth considering acquisition of. Jowett's Railway Atlas of Great Britain and Ireland, covers Ireland, "situation as at 1924", in twelve sheets, showing all lines and stations; but "Jowett's" is, altogether, a bit crudely executed. Johnson's work would appear overall, from your abebooks link, to be a better and smoother job.

You may find this website interesting, if you have not previously seen it.

http://eiretrains.com/stationindex/

The above-linked site looks like providing a good few fascinating hours -- thanks. I happened to note from it, abandonment of the Kinsale branch shown as Sep. 1931 -- for some reason I'd got it into my head, that this withdrawal was in 1930. Still though, if I have things rightly, the Great Southern's first complete closure of a line.

Hope the above helps.

 

[Calthrop]

Further to my last post, just dug out my Johnson Irish Atlas. In this it states the following for Ballinrobe :-

Claremorris to Ballinrobe opened on the 01/11/1892 by the Ballinrobe & Claremorris Light Railway.
Passenger Services suspended on the 24/02/1947 due to fuel shortages.
Goods Services suspended on the 10/03/1947.
Passenger & Goods Services resumed on the 24/05/1947.
Closed completely on the 01/01/1960 by Coras Iompair Eireann.

Hope this clarifies.

My thanks. Re my bolding above -- coincidentally, exactly at the same time as abandonment of remaining system of the 3ft. gauge County Donegal Joint !

 

[Hornet]

Jowett's Railway Atlas of Great Britain and Ireland, covers Ireland, "situation as at 1924", in twelve sheets, showing all lines and stations.

I have both Jowett's Railway Atlas of Great Britain and Ireland and Jowett's Nationalised Railway Atlas. They are both excellent tomes. If you are into atlases then "The Railways of Great Britain A Historical Atlas by Colonel Michael H. Cobb". Really for the serious enthusiast, I use for research purposes. Also "The Directory of Railway Stations by R. V. J. Butt" covers all UK and Ireland Stations. I used this originally as a reference tome but have since found that both the "Johnson's Atlas and Gazetteer of the Railways of Ireland" has far more accurate information regards the history of Railway Stations in Ireland, and for Railway Stations of Great Britain "Railway Passenger Stations in England, Scotland and Wales: A Chronology. by M. E. Quick" is an invaluable reference book for my research.

Jowett's Railway Atlas of Great Britain and Ireland.
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781852600860/Railway-Atlas-Great-Britain-Ireland-1852600861/plp

Jowett's Nationalised Railway Atlas.
https://www.amazon.com/Jowetts-Nationalised-Railway-Atlas-Jowett/dp/0906899990

The Railways of Great Britain A Historical Atlas.
http://www.railwaysofgreatbritain.com/

The Directory of Railway Stations
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/directory-railway-stations-details/

Railway Passenger Stations in England, Scotland and Wales: A Chronology
http://www.rchs.org.uk/railway-passenger-stations-in-great-britain-a-chronology/

 

[Hornet]

This book may also be useful "Register of British Railway and Tramroad Companies Incorporated Before 1948 (Also Joint Committees)" by Anthony R Warren. Covers both British and Irish Railway Companies pre 1948. It's another tome that I use for my research purposes.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Re...-Companies-Incorporated-Committees/B001PD8IQO

 

[Calthrop]

Thank you once again, Hornet. More -- tantalising -- sources of info, than resources for purchase of same !

Perhaps I'm too harsh on poor old Jowett; but as mentioned upthread, my admiration for his Railway Atlas is a bit limited. While it's clearly a labour of love on his part -- his work strikes me as amateurish, and not in the better sense of the word; and at times he appears not altogether well-informed. For instance, in his coverage of the Dublin area he shows the Dublin & Blessington Steam Tramway, but in the key, marks its gauge with a question mark. I'd thought it pretty much common knowledge that the "Blessington" (another strange and wondrous Irish rail phenomenon !) was 5' 3" gauge -- and if Mr. J. had not known, I'd think researching of the info wouldn't have been that hard, even in pre-Google days. As said, I'm maybe unfairly prejudiced against the guy.

 

[Hornet]

Thank you once again, Hornet. More -- tantalising -- sources of info, than resources for purchase of same !

Perhaps I'm too harsh on poor old Jowett; but as mentioned upthread, my admiration for his Railway Atlas is a bit limited. While it's clearly a labour of love on his part -- his work strikes me as amateurish, and not in the better sense of the word; and at times he appears not altogether well-informed. For instance, in his coverage of the Dublin area he shows the Dublin & Blessington Steam Tramway, but in the key, marks its gauge with a question mark. I'd thought it pretty much common knowledge that the "Blessington" (another strange and wondrous Irish rail phenomenon !) was 5' 3" gauge -- and if Mr. J. had not known, I'd think researching of the info wouldn't have been that hard, even in pre-Google days. As said, I'm maybe unfairly prejudiced against the guy.

An interesting little snippet about the Dublin & Blessington Steam Tramway, (the original route of which passes within 1Km from my front door, through Tallaght (pronounced Talla)), is the Morgue Public House in Templeogue, which is reputed to have got its name from acting as a morgue for those who were killed by the Trams passing by.

The Templeogue Inn, better known throughout Dublin as The Morgue. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, the number 15 Blessington steam tram passed through Templeogue so close to the road that many deaths occurred. Corpses were often sheltered in the pub until taken away and the pub acquired the permanent, morbid nickname.

http://www.southdublinhistory.ie/content.aspx?area=templeogue&type=history
http://www.themorgue.ie/gallery/category.html?id=6
http://www.kildare.ie/ehistory/index.php/the-blessington-tram-the-longest-graveyard-in-ireland/
https://www.google.ie/search?q=The+...gqPXAhWmJ8AKHeQ6CiU4ChCwBAgy&biw=1366&bih=637
http://www.southdublinhistory.ie/resource.aspx?id=139
http://www.acts.ie/en.act.1932.0013.1.html

I've also attached a link below on information regards the Internal Railway of the Guinness Brewery in Dublin, including the Track Layout (showing a tunnelled spiral loop to allow wagons to pass under James's Street), that you may find interesting.

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/22/Guinness.htm

 

[Calthrop]

An interesting little snippet about the Dublin & Blessington Steam Tramway, (the original route of which passes within 1Km from my front door, through Tallaght (pronounced Talla)), is the Morgue Public House in Templeogue, which is reputed to have got its name from acting as a morgue for those who were killed by the Trams passing by.

On recent trip, I noticed that Tallaght is one of the termini of Dublin's modern tram system. "The Morgue" -- indeed interesting, if macabre ! The steam tram strikes us as such a slow, comical, and basically un-threatening thing, that it's a surprise to learn of the amount of mayhem which at times, it wrought. There sticks in my mind an incident recounted in a book I once read -- the World War 1 memoirs of a British guy whose army unit was sent in the later stages of the war, to Italy, to help against the Austrians. He recounts how in November 1918, just after cessation of hostilities, he and his fellows were in an army camp somewhere in northern Italy; they took a day trip for some R & R to the nearest city, which trip was accomplished by steam tram. En route either "out" or "back", an Italian soldier who had been celebrating the coming of peace with copious alcohol-intake, fell off the coach balcony and under the wheels, with fatal consequences. The author muses on the irony of this chap's likely having survived horrendous perils in the war, only to die four days after its end, in such a silly and ignominious fashion.

I've also attached a link below on information regards the Internal Railway of the Guinness Brewery in Dublin, including the Track Layout (showing a tunnelled spiral loop to allow wagons to pass under James's Street), that you may find interesting.

Thanks. The Guinness brewery system was for sure, something marvellous -- it's good that several of its narrow-gauge locos have been preserved. I particularly like the "haulage wagon" contrivance, as pictured in the article: a narrow-gauge loco could be put into this device, to drive an arrangement of gears by which the thing could function as a broad-gauge loco !