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New Virgin East Coast Website

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westv

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Seat selector STILL not working for my journey. What a farce!
 
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yorkie

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I know this isn't all their fault by any means, but they* really have not thought this through.

Dunbar to Chester. Departing after approx 18:00 on 13/12/17:
Go cheaper: £93 (is this cheap?)
Go classier £172.50 (not sure an overnight wait in Edinburgh station is classy?)
Go faster £93 (12+ hour journey time is fast?)

Code:
2150 Dunbar-Edinburgh (XC)
0615 Edinburgh-Carlisle (TPE)
0746 Carlisle-Warrington (VT)
0926 Warrington-Chester (ATW)
Arrives Chester 0953


Or, for £30.30, you can book the following with Trainsplit:
Code:
1830 Dunbar-York (VTEC)
2116 York-Manchester Picc. (TPE)
2314 Manchester Picc-Chester (ATW)
Arrives Chester 0015

Are the claims on their website within the law? If they are, the law needs to be reconsidered!

If they want to say they offer the fastest/cheapest journeys, they ought to use a provider who can actually, err.. provide that?

It's not possible to book their own train on their own website. Is this unique in any service industry in the UK?

Any consumer law experts out there reading this? Is there a case here?

This is just one example out of dozens.

(* By "they", I do not mean the people who implement it and do their best with what they are told to do, but people who make decisions regarding what contracts to sign, what marketing claims to make etc)
 

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sheff1

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What are they saying the cheaper/classier/faster options are cheaper/classier/faster than ?

Classier is subjective, but cheaper and faster are statements which are either true or false. If they are making false claims then there is surely a case to be made under consumer law.
 

joncombe

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It's not possible to book their own train on their own website. Is this unique in any service industry in the UK?
It was the case for South West Trains when they launched their new website not that long before the franchise ended. They removed the ability to specify a "via" point so for some journeys (like Woking or Basingstoke to Exeter) it would only offer the quicker (but more costly) GWR route. When I contacted them on Twitter I was told to either use their telesales line or the EMT website to book.

South Western Railway have not brought back the "via" option but at least it does seem to offer both routes.
 

yorkie

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It was the case for South West Trains when they launched their new website not that long before the franchise ended. They removed the ability to specify a "via" point so for some journeys (like Woking or Basingstoke to Exeter) it would only offer the quicker (but more costly) GWR route. When I contacted them on Twitter I was told to either use their telesales line or the EMT website to book.

South Western Railway have not brought back the "via" option but at least it does seem to offer both routes.
It is not possible to purchase the second itinerary in my post above on the VTEC website, because of a combination of factors:
  • VTEC have made the decision to only offer though fares (ie, not combinations of fares), and
  • VTEC have not chosen to offer a through fare for this journey via the East Coast route.
I do wonder if people like David Horne are actually aware that these sorts of decisions are being taken, and the impact they have on their prospective customers? I suspect not!
 

hassaanhc

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I don't know, perhaps that was something they implemented because of my feedback.

I noticed the two Scottish airports I use Edinburgh and Glasgow weren't listed and neither, surprisingly was Heathrow rail at this point (but Heathrow Und was). Heathrow was a surprise because it has stations. I sent an email asking for them to be included and it happened a few weeks later. So at the time I thought they were taking feedback seriously and wouldn't remove the old booking engine until this one was reasonable.

Although I noticed that ZCW (Canada Water) which was also on my 'missing' list of stations was not added. Can anyone think of a reason why this may have been left off? Perhaps someone else already reported the missing airports? APN (Newcastle) was already on there when I first tested the beta.

In the past, ZCW was a duplicate CRS code and was also used for Canary Wharf. The latter has now been changed to ZQC. But if there is an out-of-date station list involved somewhere in the background it may still be disabled to avoid the clash with the duplicate code, I suppose.
Checking using the mobile website,, Canada appears to be added now, complete with the ZCW code. I also noticed that Limehouse is added, which was missing in their version of the old MixingDeck engine.
 

Joe Paxton

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Dunbar to Chester. Departing after approx 18:00 on 13/12/17:

For what it's worth, the Trainline only offers journeys and tickets via the WCML (Edinburgh and Carlisle etc), whilst Atos WebTIS (GWR) shows the two journeys via the ECML and York (at 17.53 and 18.51) but doesn't offer a fare for them, because of course there isn't one for that journey via that route. (I'm sure you know this Yorkie, I'm just thinking aloud and filling in the gaps for those of use who don't!)


It's not possible to book their own train on their own website. Is this unique in any service industry in the UK?

I guess one could say it's not just their own train, rather their own train that connects with two others on what perhaps could be said to be an unusual route for that journey. Nonetheless, I suppose there should be a through fare for this journey, given it offers a departure an hour later than the last via WCML journey.
 

Wallsendmag

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I think it was Charlie Brown who captured it best with the immortal line "Oh Good Grief". VTEC don't provide a fare for a journey where other operators do, shocking.
 
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FQTV

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'Booking error' when trying to buy gift vouchers for me today.

I'll see if it works by sending a Telex.
 

yorkie

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I think it was Charlie Brown who captured it best with the immortal line "Oh Good Grief". VTEC don't provide a fare for a journey where other operators do, shocking.
I guess this shows what we're up against. I'm not having a go at you; it's a cultural problem.

We would much rather work with you than against you.

Surely we want the same thing: your customers to be offered a good price, a good itinerary, a good journey and a good and seamless booking experience?
 

Wallsendmag

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I guess this shows what we're up against. I'm not having a go at you; it's a cultural problem.

We would much rather work with you than against you.

Surely we want the same thing: your customers to be offered a good price, a good itinerary, a good journey and a good and seamless booking experience?
VTEC don't provide the majority of the services for that journey or indeed any part of that journey so why would we price it?
 

Merseysider

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VTEC don't provide the majority of the services for that journey or indeed any part of that journey so why would we price it?
VTEC price the Any Permitted fare from Edinburgh to Preston. There's often little logic in who prices what.
 

yorkie

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VTEC don't provide the majority of the services for that journey or indeed any part of that journey so why would we price it?
I don't agree with logic for why VTEC don't price a fare for this journey, but I will point out that the VTEC portion (Dunbar to York) is over 172 miles, while the TPE/ATW portion is just over 108 miles. So the majority of the journey in question would be on a VTEC train.

But you don't need to price a fare to be able to offer the journey; you could offer combinations of fares instead.

VTEC only operate a minority of the journey between, say Doncaster and Penzance, but you still price it.

And I will also give Retford to Doncaster as a good example where the logic fails; most passengers would surely go with Hull Trains. Even if you take VTEC as far as Doncaster, you're unlikely to be on VTEC for long. So if we use that logic, why does VTEC price it?

The answer is that conventional logic doesn't really apply when it comes to railway ticketing, and one must keep an open mind, and ensure pragmatic solutions are implemented.
 
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westv

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Presumably there isn't a number to ring with queries about the website - as opposed to the "customer services" number.
 

yorkie

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Web support is 03457 225 111

However if it's an issue with website functionality, i believe the relevant people read this thread.
 

westv

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Web support is 03457 225 111

However if it's an issue with website functionality, i believe the relevant people read this thread.

Ok thanks. Well I was going to try and call them about the seat selector not working correctly since the new site went live.
 

sheff1

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VTEC don't provide the majority of the services for that journey or indeed any part of that journey so why would we price it?

This bizarre response speaks volumes.

VTEC price Thirsk to Wick, Fort William, Oban, Gourock, Stranraer and a huge number of Scottish stations in between. Can you remind us how many VTEC services stop at Thirsk.
 
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Haywain

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Regarding Dunbar to Chester, we could equally ask why TransPennine Express or CrossCountry* don't set a fare via the East Coast route.

*What is it with capitals letters half way through a single word name?!
 

hounddog

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Regarding Dunbar to Chester, we could equally ask why TransPennine Express or CrossCountry* don't set a fare via the East Coast route.

*What is it with capitals letters half way through a single word name?!

Didn't it start with EastEnders?
 

yorkie

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Regarding Dunbar to Chester, we could equally ask why TransPennine Express or CrossCountry* don't set a fare via the East Coast route.
Indeed. There are numerous ways in which this could be resolved.

But, in the meantime, I would argue that the website makes claims that are not accurate.
 

sheff1

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VTEC don't serve Chester, so that's hardly good logic. And TPE price Berwick to Chester, so why not Dunbar as well?

VTEC & XC serve Dunbar so it is logical to suggest that either might price a journey via the East Coast.

TPE serve neither Dunbar nor Chester, hence I see no logic in them pricing the journey. Just because they price one journey for no obvious reason doesn't make it logical that they should price another. Why do you think they should ?
 

Romilly

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So this morning I want to buy a ticket for a VTEC journey on Sunday 21 January 2018. By 10am, the front page of the VTEC site was saying that tickets were available for weekend travel up to and including 21 January, yet try to book the ticket and the site still (at 10.44am) says tickets are not yet available for that date, although they have been available on e.g. the C2C site (albeit without the seat selector) since 10am. I find it baffling that a train company is the last retailer to upload tickets for journeys on its own services: it certainly doesn't make obvious commercial sense.

More unhelpfully, the VTEC site also said that tickets were not yet available for the weekday return leg of my journey, even though if I had been looking for a ticket just for that leg the site would have sold me a ticket. Although, to be fair, if one starts one's search from a different bit of the site the message for the return leg is somewhat more nuanced, namely, that non-availability for the outward leg is preventing the planner searching for tickets for the return leg.
 

yorkie

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Yes there are issues with the implementation of restricting the dates.

It can lead to all sorts of problems, including removing the ability to book fares on operators such as Hull Trains and Grand Central. When this was reported to VTEC, they were not bothered and said it was by design. :rolleyes:
 

westv

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Does anybody know the current turnaround time for responses to emailed website functionality questions?
 

FQTV

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eVoucher purchase now working again. Not without the 'Oh, Awkward' message and a half hour delay in getting them confirmed while the system sent the AmEx SecureCode approved transaction for a 'fraud review' though, of course.
 

SaveECRewards

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eVoucher purchase now working again. Not without the 'Oh, Awkward' message and a half hour delay in getting them confirmed while the system sent the AmEx SecureCode approved transaction for a 'fraud review' though, of course.
What's the main point of eVouchers now? In the East Coast days the purchaser used to get rewards points on them, they also had no expiry date. A lot of people bought eVouchers from EC in February to effectively earn rewards points on future bookings. Now they have an expiry date and you don't earn points on them.

Back on the old site purchasing (even part purchase) with a voucher unlocked the tickets for any card collection. When I tried the same on the new site (near the beginning so may have changed) I couldn't retrieve my tickets for a voucher part purchase with a different card. I've not tried since then.

@yorkie - Dunbar to Chester, found another weird bug. Click this link and now notice whichever of the options you select you get the annoying message telling you you're missing out on a trip with their good friends VTWC that's despite all of the options including VTWC (and a small VTEC segment) in the trip.
 
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