23:30 from Kings Cross to Leeds

[yorksrob]

You don't need to imagine, the 1940 Euston to Manchester does, owing to it being routed via Styal. Similarly the first Manchester to Birmingham (0511) and final return (2230) omit it for similar reasons. All three I suspect are for route knowledge, though without being bothered to check the VT one may fall out with pathing. The two XC services if they ran via Stockport would also be very susceptible to engineering possessions, so it removes some of the risk there, too.

But that's not the last evening train from London to Manchester. A quick perusal of NRE tomorrow shows a 23:00 Euston to Piccadilly service which does call at Stockport, so at least passengers have the option of catching the last train of the evening !

 

[Antman]

You don't need to imagine, the 1940 Euston to Manchester does, owing to it being routed via Styal. Similarly the first Manchester to Birmingham (0511) and final return (2230) omit it for similar reasons. All three I suspect are for route knowledge, though without being bothered to check the VT one may fall out with pathing. The two XC services if they ran via Stockport would also be very susceptible to engineering possessions, so it removes some of the risk there, too.

However the 20.00 from Euston calls at Stockport arriving about ten minutes after the 19.40 would if it called there so no great hardship there. The same obviously can't be said about the Wakefield situation and as every other KXG-Leeds train calls there it's not unreasonable for people to question why this one doesn't.

 

[J-2739]

You don't need to imagine, the 1940 Euston to Manchester does, owing to it being routed via Styal. Similarly the first Manchester to Birmingham (0511) and final return (2230) omit it for similar reasons. All three I suspect are for route knowledge, though without being bothered to check the VT one may fall out with pathing. The two XC services if they ran via Stockport would also be very susceptible to engineering possessions, so it removes some of the risk there, too.

Ah right, cheers for the info!

 

[CheeseOnToast]

What about Sandwell & Dudley? Last Down train from Euston leaves at 21:43

 

[greyman42]

I've only ever seen them do that when there is no route available via any of the circuitous routes in South and West Yorkshire. Given we're talking about late night services, I'd suggest they'd be Leeds crew anyway, and they have booked work doing Leeds to York and vice versa on the daily Leeds - Aberdeen and return.

It is my understanding that the 23:30 only went via York when England had a match at Wembley(not friendlies) to get fans back to York. I do not know if this is still the case as York now has a 22:57 service.

 

[Mk55A]

Hi Buzz,
The 23.30 is one of our Leeds Jobs 1D36, the train is booked to go via Askern Knottingliey Pontefract Monkhill Calder Bridge Methley and into Leeds arriving around 2.36am, if we can, we ask control to see if we can go via Wakefield Westgate from Doncaster arriving into Leeds (if we get a run) around 2.05 or even earlier

 

[Class 170101]

29 November looks like the train is serving Wakefield Westgate according to Realtime trains. But the rest of that week it seems to be running via Hare Park Jn and Kirkgate.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

29 November looks like the train is serving Wakefield Westgate according to Realtime trains. But the rest of that week it seems to be running via Hare Park Jn and Kirkgate.

When I was on it the other week, it ran via Hambleton and Neville Hill to arrive in Leeds the opposite way to "normal", but RTT was showing it running the conventional route via Wakefield Westgate, though correctly listed as not calling at Wakefield. In fact, it was listed as running via the seldom-used through line at Westgate but it obviously didn't actually do so. Are any VTEC services scheduled to use that through line? As it looks pretty rusty...

 

[The Lad]

And that might be to turn the unit.

 

[DanTrain]

And that might be to turn the unit.

Why though, don't VTEC always run 91 north (or maybe south, can't remember) on the ECML. If turned once, surely it would need to be turned back at a loop (Newcastle for example)?

 

[Temple Meads]

There is a National Express service that leaves London Victoria at 23:30 which calls at Wakefield, it seems to have some good value fares available too. So there is an option other than accommodation in London, albeit one which won't appeal to some people.

 

[IanXC]

Why though, don't VTEC always run 91 north (or maybe south, can't remember) on the ECML. If turned once, surely it would need to be turned back at a loop (Newcastle for example)?

Entering Leeds from the East has the same effect in terms of turning a set. VTEC sets are intended to be First Class at the London end, which is reversed by arriving in Leeds via Garforth. (Note this route is not electrified so cannot be used by 91 sets, only HSTs)

Think of a set in reverse formation, it heads (with first class leading) through Hambleton South, Hambleton West, through Garforth, past Neville Hill and into Leeds. This means that first class is now at the end which will be the leading end departing Leeds via the usual route through Wakefield Westgate.

 

[yorksrob]

There is a National Express service that leaves London Victoria at 23:30 which calls at Wakefield, it seems to have some good value fares available too. So there is an option other than accommodation in London, albeit one which won't appeal to some people.

I dread to think what time that gets in !

 

[greyman42]

04:55. Costs about £22.

 

[yorksrob]

04:55. Costs about £22.

4:55 !

I suppose one wouldn't have to worry about a hotel !

 

[DanTrain]

Entering Leeds from the East has the same effect in terms of turning a set. VTEC sets are intended to be First Class at the London end, which is reversed by arriving in Leeds via Garforth. (Note this route is not electrified so cannot be used by 91 sets, only HSTs)

Think of a set in reverse formation, it heads (with first class leading) through Hambleton South, Hambleton West, through Garforth, past Neville Hill and into Leeds. This means that first class is now at the end which will be the leading end departing Leeds via the usual route through Wakefield Westgate.

But surely this unit enters Leeds reversed to the way it left Doncaster, causing a problem (please forgive my ignorance)?

 

[Mk55A]

Why though, don't VTEC always run 91 north (or maybe south, can't remember) on the ECML. If turned once, surely it would need to be turned back at a loop (Newcastle for example)?

The 91s are on the North end because it is easier for maintenance purposes, or in case they fail, if the train is the wrong way run, of course at the earliest opportunity the train has to be turned, VTEC like to keep the formations all the same way, so the passengers can alight and depart from the formation quickly

 

[Mk55A]

But surely this unit enters Leeds reversed to the way it left Doncaster, causing a problem (please forgive my ignorance)?

the 23.30 departure is booked via KX , Doncaster, Askern, Knottingley, Pontefract Monkhill, past Crofton, Calder Bridge, Turners Lane, Normanton & Leeds, it can also go via Hare Park, Calder Bridge, Turners lane, Normanton & Leeds, and also via Wakefield Westgate to Leeds, if for whatever reason the set goes via Hambleton of course it will be in the wrong formation, now two things can happen, the set can go via Hambleton (ex Lincoln job in a morning, or it can actually be turned via Normanton Wakefield Kirkgate up through Wakefield Westgate to Leeds, thy could of course be the wrong way around to KX, thus turning it later in the diagram (for instance at Newcastle)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And that might be to turn the unit.

It left Kings Cross in the correct orientation with first class at the buffers end, so would be reverse for a Leeds to London service...

The set used was (one of?) the 2+8 set(s?) with EMT power cars. I think the set from that service then forms the Hull Executive that morning- not sure how it gets to Paragon then though!

 

[IanXC]

It left Kings Cross in the correct orientation with first class at the buffers end, so would be reverse for a Leeds to London service...

The set used was (one of?) the 2+8 set(s?) with EMT power cars. I think the set from that service then forms the Hull Executive that morning- not sure how it gets to Paragon then though!

If a set is in reverse formation at Leeds and needs to form a Hull departure, in correct formation, it can go back to Doncaster via Hambelton, reverse, and via Goole or Selby to arrive in Hull the correct way around.

 

[greyman42]

It is going via York tonight due to England v Brazil.

 

[Class 170101]

Just imagine the farce if Virgin West Coast missed out Stockport!!

On occasion I think VT do actually miss Stockport and tell people to get an earlier train as no bus will be provided.
23:00 Euston to Manchester Piccadilly

 

[Starmill]

On occasion I think VT do actually miss Stockport and tell people to get an earlier train as no bus will be provided.
23:00 Euston to Manchester Piccadilly

Expect that a bus was provided, at 0130 from Stoke-on-Trent.

 

[Class 170101]

21:35 ex Kings Cross is the last train to Wakefield as well.

There should really be a train departing Kings Cross at 22:30 for Leeds.

The last train from London to Liverpool is at 21:07. Last to Warrington, Wigan and Preston is at 21:10. There is slightly more late evening demand for these destinations (Liverpool in isolation; Warrington, Wigan and Preston combined) than Wakefield, I would imagine, but not currently enough to entice Virgin to run later services.

That could be remedied by extending the 22:00 Euston to Crewe forwards to Liverpool Lime Street non stop then it could go via Warrington or Runcorn or Wigan NW (with a reversal).

What about Sandwell & Dudley? Last Down train from Euston leaves at 21:43

Again a 'Tour De Yorkshire' of sorts, the 23:30 to Wolverhampton can be routed via Bescot due to engineering works on the main line via Sandwell and Dudley. On occasion it even misses out Coventry and Birmingham International and operates via Stafford calling at Wolverhampton and then New Street hence the set down calls.

 

[Class 170101]

Expect that a bus was provided, at 0130 from Stoke-on-Trent.

I was sure that Virgin just told people to catch the earlier train at 21:40 from Euston to Manchester.

 

[D6975]

In fact, it was listed as running via the seldom-used through line at Westgate but it obviously didn't actually do so. Are any VTEC services scheduled to use that through line? As it looks pretty rusty...

I did the through at Westgate last year, not on VTEC but on a Northern Notts-Leeds 158. We reversed at Kirkgate due to a problem ahead and went via the through at Westgate.

 

[Starmill]

I have used the through line at Wakefield Westgate on the 2330 from London KX. I think it just happens once in a while.

 

[Iskra]

I have used the through line at Wakefield Westgate on the 2330 from London KX. I think it just happens once in a while.

It is very rare these days. The last regular use for it that I can remember was for stabling the old First North Western terminating unit between turns. Can't remember where that service came from but it always seemed a bit weird having a FNW service in firm Arriva Trains Northern territory.

 

[96tommy]

It is very rare these days. The last regular use for it that I can remember was for stabling the old First North Western terminating unit between turns. Can't remember where that service came from but it always seemed a bit weird having a FNW service in firm Arriva Trains Northern territory.

I think they went to Victoria and were basically the current day Huddersfield to Wakey and Victoria to Huddersfield combined

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It is very rare these days. The last regular use for it that I can remember was for stabling the old First North Western terminating unit between turns. Can't remember where that service came from but it always seemed a bit weird having a FNW service in firm Arriva Trains Northern territory.

I imagine that usage was a rarity, as getting there is a more complex move than the usual practice of going to the short turn back siding or to the entrance to Wrenthorpe loop.

I think they went to Victoria and were basically the current day Huddersfield to Wakey and Victoria to Huddersfield combined

That's correct- though the Manchester link predated privatisation by several years: in the late 80s and early 90s it even ran beyond Manchester to various places including Llandudno. Imagine that on a Merseytravel Pacer...