[07/11] WCML Closed in the Bletchley Area (again)

[Lrd]

Is that now 4 or 5 between MKC and EUS in less than a fortnight?

Two last week and one this week

 

[HarleyDavidson]

There has been another one under near Taunton now :/, as the first commenter said, this is becoming depressingly familiar now, Thoughts to all involved in both these terrible instances tonight.

Taunton East a Cardiff terminator involved I believe. 1A92 16:57 Plymouth was diverted via Honiton too.

 

[driver_m]

The south WCML has had fast-line fences/gates fitted...this has just meant the issue has moved elsewhere. We'll only get anywhere near solving the actual issue if we seriously look at how mental health services are done in the UK.

Nail on head. The gates and spikes will only move it elsewhere. Mental Health is changing but it needs a sea change in this country's attitudes to change it. Do you remember the criticism on here for VT having a mental health charity name and some clown on here said it was Branson jumping on the bandwagon. That's what we're up against to change MH.

 

[Antman]

Nail on head. The gates and spikes will only move it elsewhere. Mental Health is changing but it needs a sea change in this country's attitudes to change it. Do you remember the criticism on here for VT having a mental health charity name and some clown on here said it was Branson jumping on the bandwagon. That's what we're up against to change MH.

I've always been dubious about fencing on platforms stopping suicides although they do have other safety benefits.

The trouble is mental health issues are complex and even professionals can struggle to understand them, no simple solution as far as I can see.

 

[driver_m]

I've always been dubious about fencing on platforms stopping suicides although they do have other safety benefits.

The trouble is mental health issues are complex and even professionals can struggle to understand them, no simple solution as far as I can see.

You're right. It's very complex, but what is being done for MH at the moment is totally inadequate.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Not as if the NHS are not doing something about - locally (Herts) the "referal and help advice service is now 24/7 , and there has been significant recruitment of advisors and professionals - in areas which for the purpose of this forum cover the WCML / ECML and the Underground sections.

 

[Harbouring]

I can this being a very bad winter for mental health. Wards being closed so that maybe only 5 acute beds are available across the whole of England and community care in such a state that patients are seen monthly where previously they were seen at least fortnightly. It's very easy for things to spiral under these circumstances. Unfortunately it's the railway that bears some of the brunt of this, thoughts are with the staff who have had to deal with all of the recent incidents

 

[Hellfire]

I was delayed on Sunday attempting to leave Euston for Preston on the cancelled 1528 due to a fatality . Never mind what MPs may or may not have done ,or the Paradise Papers, these fatalities on the railways are far more important for the families , the drivers of the trains involved and the people using the railways. Yet nothing about it on BBC news or in national news media ??

What do you think the BBC should be reporting. They have very strict guidelines about reporting suicides which have been drawn up in consultation with the Samaritans. One of those guidelines warns against reporting details which might encourage vulnerable people to copy the act. https://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/Samaritans Media Guidelines UK Apr17_Final web(1).pdf

 

[DarloRich]

The south WCML has had fast-line fences/gates fitted...this has just meant the issue has moved elsewhere. We'll only get anywhere near solving the actual issue if we seriously look at how mental health services are done in the UK.

They are massively underfunded with a minimum 12 week wait to access service from GP referral in MK. That's how they are doing. God knows what it is like once you are in the system.

 

[LeylandLen]

What do you think the BBC should be reporting. They have very strict guidelines about reporting suicides which have been drawn up in consultation with the Samaritans. One of those guidelines warns against reporting details which might encourage vulnerable people to copy the act. https://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/Samaritans Media Guidelines UK Apr17_Final web(1).pdf

OK Thanks for the info ; I was not aware of any guidelines. Only had a quick look at the document you give, very interesting. Sorry if I offended anyone .

 

[Hellfire]

OK Thanks for the info ; I was not aware of any guidelines. Only had a quick look at the document you give, very interesting. Sorry if I offended anyone .

Don’t think anyone is offended. Just thought it useful to know that the media does take a cautious approach for very good reasons.

 

[Busaholic]

I was delayed on Sunday attempting to leave Euston for Preston on the cancelled 1528 due to a fatality . Never mind what MPs may or may not have done ,or the Paradise Papers, these fatalities on the railways are far more important for the families , the drivers of the trains involved and the people using the railways. Yet nothing about it on BBC news or in national news media ??

There's a school of thought that declares publicising such incidents only gives others the idea, particularly if one area is predominant.

 

[All Line Rover]

Two last week and one this week

I believe there was also one on Oct 25 or 26.

 

[All Line Rover]

London Midland put their usual proactive customer service for Trent Valley passengers into practice this evening. The 16:46 from Euston to Crewe was terminated at Rugby and the 17:46 was cancelled throughout. This was to be expected in the circumstances. But then the 18:49 was terminated at Northampton, while the 19:46 was started at Rugby (on time - three minutes after the 18:49 arrived at Northampton, so no chance of passengers on the 18:49 boarding the 19:46 at Rugby) and the 20:46 (the final service) was cancelled throughout. In other words, the final London Midland service today for passengers travelling from Euston to Nuneaton, Atherstone, Tamworth, Lichfield, Rugeley, Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove or Alsager was the 15:46! There is no excuse for that.

London Midland also cancelled the final train in the opposite direction (the 20:10 Crewe to Northampton) for good measure.

Occasionally London Midland arranges buses, but who would want to wait at an unstaffed station such as Atherstone late at night for a bus that might never turn up?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've always been dubious about fencing on platforms stopping suicides although they do have other safety benefits.

For clarity I don't oppose them, I think they do reduce the number of suicides and have general safety benefits.

The trouble is mental health issues are complex and even professionals can struggle to understand them, no simple solution as far as I can see.

Indeed so. Often nobody even has a clue there is a problem.

 

[Carlisle]

Indeed so. Often nobody even has a clue there is a problem.

I’m pretty sure that on a fair number of occasions friends/family/work colleagues etc will recognise those concerned aren’t their normal selves but probably aren’t aware of how unwell they’ve recently become and/or feel ill equipped to actually do anything useful for them in that situation.

 

[QueensCurve]

This seems depressingly familiar now.

It seems to be becoming the new blackspot for people hit by a train as once Twyford was.

 

[QueensCurve]

I was delayed on Sunday attempting to leave Euston for Preston on the cancelled 1528 due to a fatality . Never mind what MPs may or may not have done ,or the Paradise Papers, these fatalities on the railways are far more important for the families , the drivers of the trains involved and the people using the railways. Yet nothing about it on BBC news or in national news media ??

The sad fact about the "Paradise Papers" is that, if this reduces Government revenue, it may make lives worse for those who are not among the super-Rich potentially increasing suicides on the railway or elsewhere.

 

[hibtastic]

I was on the 1900 out of Euston back to Manchester last night and it was the first service out of Euston since the line was closed. As you would expect it was absolutely wedged and was declassified throughout.

Ended up being around 40 mins late on arrival at Piccadilly. For what it’s worth I thought the VT team on twitter and at Euston did a good job in the circumstances.

 

[A0wen]

London Midland put their usual proactive customer service for Trent Valley passengers into practice this evening. The 16:46 from Euston to Crewe was terminated at Rugby and the 17:46 was cancelled throughout. This was to be expected in the circumstances. But then the 18:49 was terminated at Northampton, while the 19:46 was started at Rugby (on time - three minutes after the 18:49 arrived at Northampton, so no chance of passengers on the 18:49 boarding the 19:46 at Rugby) and the 20:46 (the final service) was cancelled throughout. In other words, the final London Midland service today for passengers travelling from Euston to Nuneaton, Atherstone, Tamworth, Lichfield, Rugeley, Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove or Alsager was the 15:46! There is no excuse for that.

London Midland also cancelled the final train in the opposite direction (the 20:10 Crewe to Northampton) for good measure.

Occasionally London Midland arranges buses, but who would want to wait at an unstaffed station such as Atherstone late at night for a bus that might never turn up?

I don't imagine for a second LM took those decisions "just for the hell of it" - presumably it was due to where the stock and drivers needed to be at the end of day?

If the stock or driver for the 20.46 hadn't arrived into Euston owing to the earlier problems, what would you expect them to do?

Equally it's all very well saying "well they should have re-directed xx service" but that might have caused far more problems.

I assume ticket easements were in place which would have allowed travellers to make alternative journeys, so

Nuneaton: via Coventry or Birmingham.
Tamworth: via Birmingham
Rugeley: via Birmingham
Stafford: Virgin Liverpool services
Stoke: Virgin Manchester servcices
Kidsgrove: Virgin Manchester then EMT or Northern.

So the only two stations where there would have been a significant problem were Atherstone and Stone.
Presumably those for the 19.46 from Rugby could also have got a Virgin Birmingham service rather than a slower LM to Rugby?

 

[DarloRich]

London Midland put their usual proactive customer service for Trent Valley passengers into practice this evening. The 16:46 from Euston to Crewe was terminated at Rugby and the 17:46 was cancelled throughout. This was to be expected in the circumstances. But then the 18:49 was terminated at Northampton, while the 19:46 was started at Rugby (on time - three minutes after the 18:49 arrived at Northampton, so no chance of passengers on the 18:49 boarding the 19:46 at Rugby) and the 20:46 (the final service) was cancelled throughout. In other words, the final London Midland service today for passengers travelling from Euston to Nuneaton, Atherstone, Tamworth, Lichfield, Rugeley, Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove or Alsager was the 15:46! There is no excuse for that.

London Midland also cancelled the final train in the opposite direction (the 20:10 Crewe to Northampton) for good measure.

Occasionally London Midland arranges buses, but who would want to wait at an unstaffed station such as Atherstone late at night for a bus that might never turn up?

Oh look. More LM bashing. Quelle surprise. Never a word of criticism for Virgin.

Were you caught up in this? I was so I can only assume you are unaware of the work LM, BTP and NR staff had to put in at Bletchley last night and those that stayed well beyond their shift times to help passengers and deal with the aftermath.

Road transport was ordered for several runs on LM: Northampton - Wellingbrough, MK-Luton Airport, Tring - MK, Northampton - Rugby & Fenny Stratford - Bedford. That was done at 1700 on a weekday in about as quick a time as I have seen it.

Ticket acceptance was in place with: EMT, Thamelsink, Chitlern, LO, VT, Southern and on the underground

Whilst not ideal, clearly, what more could be done with many of the trains to run these services stuck out of place with crews all over the place?

 

[STKKK46]

Oh look. More LM bashing. Quelle surprise. Never a word of criticism for Virgin.

Were you caught up in this? I was so I can only assume you are unaware of the work LM and NR staff had to put in at Bletchley last night and those that stayed well beyond their shift times to help passengers and deal with the aftermath.

Road transport was ordered for several runs on LM: Northampton - Wellingbrough, MK-Luton Airport, Tring - MK, Northampton - Rugby & Fenny Stratford - Bedford. That was done at 1700 on a weekday in about as quick a time as I have seen it.

Ticket acceptance was in place with: EMT, Thamelsink, Chitlern, LO, VT, Southern and on the underground

Whilst not ideal, clearly, what more could be done with many of the trains to run these services stuck out of place with crews all over the place?

Some tweets last night on the situation were absolutely nauseating. I had quoted on here but I can't bring myself to post it it's that bad.

I know non railway people may not understand what exactly the situation is and what exactly goes on, it is incredible to see the amount of abuse LM received on Twitter last night. You have to feel for the people that receive this and can't do anything about it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Crew displacement not just limited to BY and Northampton , but as far afield as Preston , Manchester , Wolverhampton, Liverpool , Crewe .......not to mention Selhurst.

Not forgetting freight drivers .......(there were 3 in a row on the down slow in the Tring area...)

About as bad as it gets .

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think there needs to be more attention given to ensuring the infrequent services operate, personally. The Crewes seem to suffer badly from any disruption, when dropping a Tring stopper (or even all of them per the 2-track emergency timetable) is just likely to cause minor hassle.

It's not dissimilar to the grindingly unreliable WLL service which is cancelled every time someone looks at it, though as that's also grindingly slow going via London has no massive time penalty.

The LM policy in disruption of "let's just get everything out of Euston as well as we can to clear the commuters even if it's late" has a lot of strengths (it's very rare for LM to miss stops to catch up unlike many other TOCs, say, and that avoids confusion and frustration) but it doesn't work for the Crewes, for which I think there really needs to be a specific recovery plan.

IOW, you can lose 2tph out of the south WCML service without more than a little overcrowding and frustration, but a plan really is needed to ensure a Trent Valley train is near-never cancelled, even if they start diverting to and turning things at Northampton which works well to help things recover.

 

[hibtastic]

Some tweets last night on the situation were absolutely nauseating. I had quoted on here but I can't bring myself to post it it's that bad.

I know non railway people may not understand what exactly the situation is and what exactly goes on, it is incredible to see the amount of abuse LM received on Twitter last night. You have to feel for the people that receive this and can't do anything about it.

I agree, some of the tweets to both VT and LM last night were horrific given the circumstances. Its astounding that people can be so insensitive an self-centered when things like this happen.

 

[STKKK46]

I agree, some of the tweets to both VT and LM last night were horrific given the circumstances. Its astounding that people can be so insensitive an self-centered when things like this happen.

There is a very valid point that some put across... Yes, you may be 3 hours late home to your partner tonight, but it could be the case that someone's partner is never coming home again. Food for thought.

 

[A0wen]

I think there needs to be more attention given to ensuring the infrequent services operate, personally. The Crewes seem to suffer badly from any disruption, when dropping a Tring stopper (or even all of them per the 2-track emergency timetable) is just likely to cause minor hassle.

It's not dissimilar to the grindingly unreliable WLL service which is cancelled every time someone looks at it, though as that's also grindingly slow going via London has no massive time penalty.

The LM policy in disruption of "let's just get everything out of Euston as well as we can to clear the commuters even if it's late" has a lot of strengths (it's very rare for LM to miss stops to catch up unlike many other TOCs, say, and that avoids confusion and frustration) but it doesn't work for the Crewes, for which I think there really needs to be a specific recovery plan.

IOW, you can lose 2tph out of the south WCML service without more than a little overcrowding and frustration, but a plan really is needed to ensure a Trent Valley train is near-never cancelled, even if they start diverting to and turning things at Northampton which works well to help things recover.

The reality is the Crewe trains are less busy and carry fewer people. That's not so they're not important to people who use them, but it does rather set the scene that when problems occur they will inevitably be the first ones to be sacrificed.

If you start diverting the Birminghams (which are of course the only ones which run north of Northampton) you're affecting customers who are travelling to Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham Airport and Birmingham itself - the knock on is far greater than Nuneaton or Tamworth.

With ticket easements in place, people travelling to Stafford, Stoke or Crewe were catered for by Virgin - and probably got a quicker journey than they would have had with LM.

Last night, given where the problem occurred, dropping the Tring stoppers would probably have been the worst possible thing to do - those at least meant people travelling to Watford, Hemel and Berkhamsted got out of Euston. OK, little consolation if you were trying to get to MK or points north, but still far better in the overall scheme of things.

And the '2 track' timetable is, of course, planned for either whole days or clear parts of a day - so driver's rosters and unit rosters are planned accordingly as will ECS moves and I assume freight diverted elsewhere. Whereas what happened yesterday was an unplanned incident in the middle of the day - you can't just magic the freight trains away that are running - whereas with a planned capacity restriction you plan for them not to be there at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reality is the Crewe trains are less busy and carry fewer people. That's not so they're not important to people who use them, but it does rather set the scene that when problems occur they will inevitably be the first ones to be sacrificed.

Personally I see it in terms of relative inconvenience. They are busy trains, only 4-car (a few 8) but often full and standing.

But to use an example elsewhere...it'd be better to lose several Manchester suburban DMU services which are typically more frequent than one Hope Valley stopper.

With ticket easements in place, people travelling to Stafford, Stoke or Crewe were catered for by Virgin - and probably got a quicker journey than they would have had with LM.

Don't forget people making non-London journeys.

Last night, given where the problem occurred, dropping the Tring stoppers would probably have been the worst possible thing to do - those at least meant people travelling to Watford, Hemel and Berkhamsted got out of Euston. OK, little consolation if you were trying to get to MK or points north, but still far better in the overall scheme of things.

It was figurative. The point is that even if you lop them entirely nobody is going to be several hours late getting home.

And the '2 track' timetable is, of course, planned for either whole days or clear parts of a day - so driver's rosters and unit rosters are planned accordingly as will ECS moves and I assume freight diverted elsewhere. Whereas what happened yesterday was an unplanned incident in the middle of the day - you can't just magic the freight trains away that are running - whereas with a planned capacity restriction you plan for them not to be there at all.

The 2-track timetable is frequently implemented in the case of an emergency that loses them 2 tracks for any significant distance south of MKC.

 

[A0wen]

Personally I see it in terms of relative inconvenience. They are busy trains, only 4-car (a few 8) but often full and standing.

But not for their duration. Quite alot of the passengers empty out a MKC and Rugby. And Virgin are better placed to pick up the slack for Rugby and points north.

But to use an example elsewhere...it'd be better to lose several Manchester suburban DMU services which are typically more frequent than one Hope Valley stopper.

Not really a valid comparison.

Don't forget people making non-London journeys.

I didn't. Nor did LM - as was pointed out they did run at least one TV stopper which was started from Rugby.

What is unrealistic at times of disruption is the expectation that LM should provide the same TV service they would at normal times. Passengers for the TV stations - with the exception of Atherstone and Stone had more than one alternative route they could use - mainly via Birmingham, but there were other options. And people who headed to Rugby using Virgin would have been able to pick up the LM service operated from there.

It was figurative. The point is that even if you lop them entirely nobody is going to be several hours late getting home.

But the simple fact is for a simple safety reason, LM's focus has to be clearing as many people out of Euston as possible. The Tring stoppers do this as they serve busy stations such as Watford Junction and Hemel. It also keeps other passengers moving who may not be at Euston.

Realistically, when such disruption occurs, LM's focus has to be:

commuter traffic out of London up to Northampton and maintaining a service between Northampton and Birmingham. Anything else is a luxury.

The 2-track timetable is frequently implemented in the case of an emergency that loses them 2 tracks for any significant distance south of MKC.

That's as maybe - but usually when such incidents occur all lines are closed until the clean up is complete and people aren't trackside. The loss of 2 tracks is more commonly due to other disruption such as a train failure or infrastructure failure - which in some respects are "less" disruptive - because the only people who should be trackside in those situations are people who are normally trackside.

 

[Robertj21a]

Oh look. More LM bashing. Quelle surprise. Never a word of criticism for Virgin.

Were you caught up in this? I was so I can only assume you are unaware of the work LM, BTP and NR staff had to put in at Bletchley last night and those that stayed well beyond their shift times to help passengers and deal with the aftermath.

Road transport was ordered for several runs on LM: Northampton - Wellingbrough, MK-Luton Airport, Tring - MK, Northampton - Rugby & Fenny Stratford - Bedford. That was done at 1700 on a weekday in about as quick a time as I have seen it.

Ticket acceptance was in place with: EMT, Thamelsink, Chitlern, LO, VT, Southern and on the underground

Whilst not ideal, clearly, what more could be done with many of the trains to run these services stuck out of place with crews all over the place?

It certainly needs noting, by others, just how much was achieved at 5pm. A very difficult time of day to obtain the necessary resources - and over so many different routes. A deserved pat on the back to all involved.