class 442 original interior

[Richard5608]

Does anybody have a picture of the original First class interior when 442s were introduced in 1988. mainly of the compartments please

 

[NSEFAN]

There's this picture:
http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/rolling-stock/442/img/rsmth_int1nse.jpg

From this page:
http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/rolling-stock/442/442int01.html

 

[Bishopstone]

I think I'm right in saying that, as introduced, only the compartments were first class. The small open saloon beyond, behind the cab, was Standard. The open saloon became first class within a few years.

Does anyone know the story of *why* the saloon was originally Standard, but soon became First? This gave a very generous premium provision: was it ever matched by demand?

 

[hexagon789]

I think I'm right in saying that, as introduced, only the compartments were first class. The small open saloon beyond, behind the cab, was Standard. The open saloon became first class within a few years.

Does anyone know the story of *why* the saloon was originally Standard, but soon became First? This gave a very generous premium provision: was it ever matched by demand?

Yes, originally the Driving Trailer First Semi-Open Lavatory (DTFoL) were Driving Trailer Composite Semi-Open Lavatory (DTCoL) with, as you say, only the 6 six-seat compartments being First Class; hence why the saloon had 2+2 seating (as it was built as Standard Class) rather reminiscent of ScotRail's 158s as built. I believe it was simply that there was felt to be insufficient First Class seating, though the 4REP/4TC sets would've provided 42 First between Bournemouth and Weymouth at minimum so only a decrease of 6. I always felt that the "First" Class saloon was a bit pathetic, the compartments were far more comfortable and the seating in the saloon really wasn't that much different to Standard.

 

[30907]

...there was felt to be insufficient First Class seating, though the 4REP/4TC sets would've provided 42 First between Bournemouth and Weymouth at minimum so only a decrease of 6.

But a REP had a BFK, so at the London end there was a significant (33%) decrease.

 

[Helvellyn]

I think at the time NSE was reducing First Class provison in the Mk 1 EMU fleet, e.g. with CIGs and VEPs having a First Class compartment declassified on refurbishment. Yet when the 442s were introduced it seemed that there was possibly a jump in First Class demand needing the reclassification of the small 14-seat saloon to First Class. However, I also wonder whether there were compliants from First Class passengers over Standard Class passengers blocking the corridor - with a leading unit in the Up direction and the front passenger door locked out of use for use by Drivers the only way to get to that Standard Class saloon would be to go through First Class.

 

[Bishopstone]

Interesting responses, thanks.

Being isolated within a single or leading unit, I wondered whether the saloon attracted less desirable types (fare dodgers, groups of loud youths etc) and consequent complaints from first class clientele, resulting in the whole coach being designated first class.

Relative to, say, the 375s and 377s operating to the Kent and Sussex coast, I note the 444s continue with a substantial and comfortable first class provision.

 

[30907]

I think at the time NSE was reducing First Class provison in the Mk 1 EMU fleet, e.g. with CIGs and VEPs having a First Class compartment declassified on refurbishment.

The CIGs and VEPs interestingly began with very generous First Class provision (perhaps reflecting the high 1st provision of the PUL/PAN stock?).
CIGs originally had IIRC 7 compartments per unit plus an odd 2nd class one, and VEPs were similar whereas CEPs had only 4 (fewer than 2×2Hap in fact). I th8nk this was found to be over-generous!
The provision in a REP/TC combination would have been similar to a typical Bournemouth line formation in steam days.

 

[Richard5608]

did the class 442 open saloons have first class trims when they went to being first class.

 

[Helvellyn]

did the class 442 open saloons have first class trims when they went to being first class.

Yes, they got the red/grey striped seat covers as used in the compartments and curtains too. Originally they would have had the same moquette as used on the remainder of the standard class seats.