First Group: General Discussion

[Dai Corner]

You mean into relations to this statement



Im not sure what that means? More cuts? More management changes? etc

It could be interpreted to mean 'we know we're not as profitable as our shareholders would like and we will do something about it but we're not sure exactly what yet'

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think they know exactly what they will do - in fact, they tell you. They will focus capital investment in those areas where they can get a return (which is something that shareholders will expect).

However, the focus is on cost down measures and with good reason - lot less capital required to save £1m than to generate the number of passengers to add £1m to the bottom line. I know that goes against the grain for many but it is a fact.

The interesting line (for me) was the line that they are focussing on those areas where authorities are looking to support bus operators - my thoughts were less on the Potteries and more to do with First Manchester!!!

 

[Volvodart]

The interesting line (for me) was the line that they are focussing on those areas where authorities are looking to support bus operators - my thoughts were less on the Potteries and more to do with First Manchester!!!

The new Manchester MD that came at the start of the year appears to have not done much, compared to the one in Glasgow, who has not been there that long.

 

[Dai Corner]

I think they know exactly what they will do - in fact, they tell you. They will focus capital investment in those areas where they can get a return (which is something that shareholders will expect).

However, the focus is on cost down measures and with good reason - lot less capital required to save £1m than to generate the number of passengers to add £1m to the bottom line. I know that goes against the grain for many but it is a fact.

The interesting line (for me) was the line that they are focussing on those areas where authorities are looking to support bus operators - my thoughts were less on the Potteries and more to do with First Manchester!!!

Yes, I meant that they hadn't decided exactly which areas they were going to concentrate on.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, I meant that they hadn't decided exactly which areas they were going to concentrate on.

I think it is probably fairly apparent.... Bristol, Leeds, Cornwall will be areas where they can invest with the support (not necessarily financial) of the authorities. Whereas, in areas like Manchester and Potteries where there's either moves to take buses in public control or such a laissez faire attitude from local authorities, they will have to manage on cascades.

Whether that then results in youngish cascades etc to the provinces....?? We've already seen newish deckers leave Leeds for Norwich/Great Yarmouth as an example.

As for Phil Medlicott (MD at First Manchester), it's a fair question though there may be more focus on stuff in the background. Remember, he was a controversial character at Stagecoach East Kent (though there were some impressive service and ridership improvements) but didn't outwardly do much at Stagecoach Busways. Arguably, he was busy dealing with Nexus's mickey mouse proposal - it may be that he's busy with dealing with GM's tilt at taking control so a lot in the background (as well as managing the closure of two depots) than anything more overt.

 

[Ticket2ryd]

Is first group employee own or do they sell stocks to employee

 

[Lrd]

Is first group employee own or do they sell stocks to employee

They sell stocks to employees through Buy As You Earn (BAYE) and also Save As You Earn (SAYE)

 

[Ticket2ryd]

At least some incentives for employee
Unlike FGA unionized employee don't care management don't care
I don't know how they are surviving here
Maybe from school bus services

 

[overthewater]

AT this stage of the game would First say " oh sod it and up sticks? when there come to Potteries & Manchester?

Mind you Giles Fearnley really has had ti work cut out over the past 6 years, ( has it really been six years)

The new Manchester MD that came at the start of the year appears to have not done much, compared to the one in Glasgow, who has not been there that long.

Mr andrew jarvis all over, ( Scotland MD now ) He got more than just Glasgow to deal with he has the Forth Valley and Aberdeen, Unfortunately I doubt he has time to deal with all three. Glasgow needs a right kick up the back side but he got to find growth without any new buses investment. If he could find 50 newish buses he would be doing great.

Just this week in Glasgow he unveiled mr Contactless man

 

[GaryMcEwan]

AT this stage of the game would First say " oh sod it and up sticks? when there come to Potteries & Manchester?

Mind you Giles Fearnley really has had ti work cut out over the past 6 years, ( has it really been six years)




Mr andrew jarvis all over, ( Scotland MD now ) He got more than just Glasgow to deal with he has the Forth Valley and Aberdeen, Unfortunately I doubt he has time to deal with all three. Glasgow needs a right kick up the back side but he got to find growth without any new buses investment. If he could find 50 newish buses he would be doing great.

Just this week in Glasgow he unveiled mr Contactless man

It's just a shame that drivers give you pure attitude though when you try and use contactless.

 

[KendalKing]

The Evening Standard is reporting the following:-

FirstGroup slammed Network Rail on Tuesday for infrastructure failings at Waterloo in the first few weeks of its operation of the South West Rail franchise.

Rail boss Tim O’Toole said the transport operator was happy with the increase in capacity after Network Rail’s work this summer to lengthen platforms, but added: “I just wish the infrastructure had been more robust following the work.”

FirstGroup took over one of the country’s busiest commuter franchises in August from Stagecoach, at the tail-end of work to lengthen platforms. Commuters had to put up with numerous signal failures on the platform extensions at the start of September.

FirstGroup, which also runs buses in the US and the Caribbean, saw revenues rise by 8.1% in the first half of the year to £2.7 billion, including only a month of South West Rail. However, without the new income from the Waterloo franchise and currency movements, revenues would have gone up by just 0.9%. The shares fell 2.7p to 107.2p.

Rail passenger revenue increased by 3.2%, despite fears that terrorism was deterring people from making non-essential trips into London.

Outside London, FirstGroup said bus revenue was flat and warned it would no longer invest in new buses in areas where the local authority was not actively working to lower congestion. First took a £6 million hit from Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico. Statutory operating profit was 26.3% lower at £57.4 million.

Investors looking for the dividend, scrapped in 2013 amid an emergency rights issue, will have to wait longer as First pays down debt. A decision on the payout will be in the second half.

 

[overthewater]

Wait a mins that could also mean Glasgow get nothing new because of that crap with the Emission zone?

 

[overthewater]

http://www.route-one.net/articles/People/Two_new_directors_at_First_Bus

First Bus has appointed two new Commercial Directors for its West Yorkshire and West of England businesses.

Martin Hirst for West Yorkshire, and Rob Pymm (pictured) for First West of England, both have over 20 years’ experience in commercial roles.

They will take overall responsibility for their company’s proposition, network and performance, and will also oversee; fares and tickets, the local marketing strategy, stakeholder engagement and contract tendering.

Giles Fearnley, Managing Director of First Bus, says: “I am really delighted to welcome both Martin and Rob on board.

“I know they will be bringing new ideas and a fresh way of thinking as we transform our businesses, continuously improving our customer offering and place our services at the very heart of the communities we serve.”

“I look forward to working with the team and local stakeholders, to support the ambition of doubling passenger numbers in Leeds and delivering truly market leading services,” says Martin.

Rob, adds: “I am passionate about understanding our customers’ needs and delivering great service. I am confident that by doing so we can continue to see ground breaking levels of growth across our businesses.”

 

[Volvodart]

It's just a shame that drivers give you pure attitude though when you try and use contactless.

Aberdeen was offering the driver that sold the most contactless a prize to encourage its use.

 

[Dai Corner]

It's just a shame that drivers give you pure attitude though when you try and use contactless.

Why would drivers not want passengers to use contactless?

 

[overthewater]

Why would drivers not want passengers to use contactless?

its seem its require extra steeps to allow it to work... it might be easy for passengers but no so much for drivers.

 

[GBM]

It's a real pain for contactless. Passenger advises contactless payment. Find destination to where passenger is going. Find single/return/weekly/monthly; ask passenger to place card on reader. Wait for issue button to change to orange/yellow & "bingo" all done. Takes longer than paying cash. More delays but slightly less money to carry around.
If passenger doesn't advise contactless, then driver issues a cash ticket only then have to annul it when passenger tries to pay contactless; then start the contactless sequence (only the destination is already on the machine).

 

[Volvodart]

It is quick at Aberdeen. You just place card on reader, driver changes from cash to contactless on Ticketer and there you go!

 

[Dai Corner]

It's a real pain for contactless. Passenger advises contactless payment. Find destination to where passenger is going. Find single/return/weekly/monthly; ask passenger to place card on reader. Wait for issue button to change to orange/yellow & "bingo" all done. Takes longer than paying cash. More delays but slightly less money to carry around.
If passenger doesn't advise contactless, then driver issues a cash ticket only then have to annul it when passenger tries to pay contactless; then start the contactless sequence (only the destination is already on the machine).

Thanks for the explanation GBM. It sounds like the design of the ticket machines needs to be changed so that the cash/contactless choice is the last part of the sequence. Contactless in shops works much better.

 

[Volvodart]

That is what happens in Aberdeen.

 

[smtglasgow]

Glasgow is going to a major headache for First over the next few years. It’s one of the few really profitable opcos in the group, but the profits are coming at the expense of investment. The Glasgow Low Emissions Zone will happen (it plays to the SNP’s green ambitions) and while there may be some ScotGov money for retrofitting, the fleet is in such a state that there will have to be significant investment.

Hard to see any outcome other than more service cuts/frequency reductions. Professor David Begg was on Radio Scotland yesterday talking about the LEZ and he mentioned that bus use in Glasgow has dropped 40% in a decade – not all First’s fault obviously, but as the dominant operator they bear the brunt of the blame.

If you don’t need to use a bus in Glasgow, there is nothing to tempt you. Simplicity was great if you live on a main corridor, but at the peripheries the frequencies are now too low and simply push custom towards rail. Stealth price rises like replacing returns with day tickets haven’t helped. The (11 year old) branded buses on the 9 look great, but they’ve had no work done internally. Even relatively modern vehicles are looking shabby, but some of the older Tridents and B7L’s are shocking – hard to believe that some of the vehicles have ever seen a deep clean.

 

[Ticket2ryd]

I think FGA also increase their revenue in US through real state majority of greyhound terminals are located in the heart of the city and they been relocating lately outside of city and most of the newer fleet are state owned they just operate them it's a free money from gov and greyhound get to keep the revenue and at the end of the contract greyhound have a choice to buy those unit for dirt cheap

 

[overthewater]

Glasgow City operations are not profitable, it's the No2 divisions which makes the cash and are also routes which are getting new buses. Saying it's not First fault in Glasgow with a drop in passengers is laughable, Over the 00's while in First hands Scotrail passengers within Glasgow skyrocketed. I think Andrew jarvis is trying to get better growth rates with the current stock, but the as said some part of the network really needs to be re looked at,

 

[Robertj21a]

Glasgow City operations are not profitable, it's the No2 divisions which makes the cash and are also routes which are getting new buses. Saying it's not First fault in Glasgow with a drop in passengers is laughable, Over the 00's while in First hands Scotrail passengers within Glasgow skyrocketed. I think Andrew jarvis is trying to get better growth rates with the current stock, but the as said some part of the network really needs to be re looked at,

I'm not sure why you keep trotting this out, despite me having corrected you on previous occasions. There are 2 Glasgow operations and BOTH are profitable. Indeed, if I recall correctly (I haven't re-checked) the two combined profit centres made them amongst the most profitable parts of the First Bus empire. Why do you persist in denying this ?

 

[overthewater]

Its false economy No1 might well be 6% return on profits but where is the investment? It like wigan old fleet, it down at the heel, When was the last time there was any major investment within the city? Ie not just 25 here or there or helped from the Government? No2 is where the money come from, making 9-10% it also were its get the inversement. Worse still fiddling took place which resulted in No2 routes being moved into the No1 operates to help that side.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I'm not sure why you keep trotting this out, despite me having corrected you on previous occasions. There are 2 Glasgow operations and BOTH are profitable. Indeed, if I recall correctly (I haven't re-checked) the two combined profit centres made them amongst the most profitable parts of the First Bus empire. Why do you persist in denying this ?

Because he likes to undermine First operations by talking up rumours, he did this to Scotland East on the forum for a few years.

 

[Robertj21a]

Its false economy No1 might well be 6% return on profits but where is the investment? It like wigan old fleet, it down at the heel, When was the last time there was any major investment within the city? Ie not just 25 here or there or helped from the Government? No2 is where the money come from, making 9-10% it also were its get the inversement. Worse still fiddling took place which resulted in No2 routes being moved into the No1 operates to help that side.

I truly don't believe you understand anything about profits !

You keep mentioning investment as if it is directly related to profit. It isn't.

 

[overthewater]

Because he likes to undermine First operations by talking up rumours, he did this to Scotland East on the forum for a few years.

Yet Muss is gone. Border were sold off; Everything has been overhauled. Facts aren't rumors you know. Anyways it's all change now at Midland bluebird it's all on the up and up and it's had lots of investment, new blood, new ideas, a forward thinking Business plan with clear direction and how to get the best of growth from the operation are which is also in profit ( not often there have been able to say that) You can only talk about the good times cant we....

I truly don't believe you understand anything about profits !
You keep mentioning investment as if it is directly related to profit. It isn't.

You dont get investment from turnover of operating cost, it comes from profits anything else is asking for trouble in the world of business. You still whitewash Wigan that in the same place as glasgow, down at the heel fleet yet on paper very profitable.

 

[Robertj21a]

You dont get investment from turnover of operating cost, it comes from profits anything else is asking for trouble in the world of business. You still whitewash Wigan that in the same place as glasgow, down at the heel fleet yet on paper very profitable.

It's probably easiest (for me at least!) if I just give up.

 

[THarris123]

I truly don't believe you understand anything about profits !

You keep mentioning investment as if it is directly related to profit. It isn't.

Are you just reading on paper that it is profitable or do you know Glasgow well enough to say it's profitable?

At a guess I'd say that overthewater is based in Scotland, so I'd probably say he/she has more knowledge of whether it's profitable. It's similar to your views and comments on Somerset.