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Equal Pay: The Myths and Facts of the Gender Wage Gap

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Domh245

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Looking through the actual report, it is made clear that the salaries that are compared in the $250k v $400k headline are the mean salaries. They point out that the median salaries do diverge, but "not as much as mean do" - after 13 years, the male median is $242,367 vs $146,342 for females. Figure 1 in the report shows the divergence clearly

(The appendicies from said report are available here)
 
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najaB

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A sackable offence to discuss salary?! How on earth does that work?
Written into the employee handbook that you agree to follow when you sign your contract. If it would be enforceable or not I don't know but I've no intention to be the one who finds out.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Looking through the actual report, it is made clear that the salaries that are compared in the $250k v $400k headline are the mean salaries. They point out that the median salaries do diverge, but "not as much as mean do" - after 13 years, the male median is $242,367 vs $146,342 for females. Figure 1 in the report shows the divergence clearly

(The appendicies from said report are available here)

Oh dear. I know you weren't directing this at me, but judging by what you've said I think I might've misunderstood the report :s
 

Bromley boy

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Written into the employee handbook that you agree to follow when you sign your contract. If it would be enforceable or not I don't know but I've no intention to be the one who finds out.

I can understand you not wanting to rock the boat, but that sounds very dubious indeed.

How would they prove you'd done it, for one thing, and supposing you married one of your colleagues, would it still be prohibited?!

The British reluctance to discuss pay helps employers and does very, very little for employees!
 

najaB

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How would they prove you'd done it, for one thing, and supposing you married one of your colleagues, would it still be prohibited?!
You would have to be silly enough to discuss it within earshot of someone in management who actually cared. TBH the rule only means that any such discussions are had outside of work.
The British reluctance to discuss pay helps employers and does very, very little for employees!
Interesting you say that as my ex-wife worked for a French company who had a similar rule, but my previous British employer did not.
 

Bromley boy

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You would have to be silly enough to discuss it within earshot of someone in management who actually cared. TBH the rule only means that any such discussions are had outside of work.
Interesting you say that as my ex-wife worked for a French company who had a similar rule, but my previous British employer did not.

A rule like that says something very, very negative about the company attempting to enforce it.

From a quick google search, all you need to do is say you're asking for the purposes of ensuring no discrimination is taking place and there's sweet FA the company can do...

That's the kind of instruction I'd almost like to be given at work, just for the pleasure of attacking it. I'd do that just as quickly as I'd convert to Islam if my manager asked me to shave my beard off... :D

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...uss-my-pay-with-colleagues.html#ixzz4yG1WSXVJ

Caroline Noblet, partner and International Head of Employment at Hammonds, replies: The Equality Act 2010, which is likely to come into force in October, will not provide an outright ban on pay secrecy or 'gagging' clauses.

However, under the Act, such clauses will be unenforceable against employees who make or solicit a 'relevant pay disclosure' while trying to find out whether or to what extent there is a link between pay and sex, race or other personal characteristics.
 

DarloRich

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On this day (November 10th) it is the day that women are effectively working for free until the end of the year. Except it isn't. The so-called gender pay gap has been debunked every time it comes up, yet the myth that women are paid less than men for the same work still perpetuates.

It's true, women on average earn less than men. The keyword here is 'EARN'. They earn less because they work less hours, work lower paying jobs, and take more time off work for things such as maternity leave, among some other factors. If there is a problem, it's women not being encouraged to go into higher paying jobs and fields, and they are also less likely to ask for a pay raise, and therefore it's a cultural problem.

While the first part of your statement is obvious silliness designed to drive column inches there is an issue with gender pay inequality. Several posters have given examples, anecdotally, of the situation in their fields yet you seek to dismiss them. Perhaps when you have some experience of the world and the world of work you will be able to grade what your favorite alt right news groups tell you against the reality out in the real world. I set out below a few articles that only a few minutes reaidng via your favorite search engine would deliver:

There is an interesting article from the Torygraph that i am surprised you missed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/equal-pay-gender-pay-gap-britains-workplaces-6-myths-busted/

There is some useful information here: http://www.equalpayportal.co.uk/statistics/ ( you will no doubt dismiss the information as biased due to the nature of the charity collecting the data)

There is an interesting article here in the Independent ( which sadly is a bit of a comic these days) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...omen-wef-fawcett-society-income-a8046651.html

And then there is this page on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41805053

Yet despite this, politicians (especially left-wing) like Sadiq Khan and Jeremy Corbyn have perpetuated the myth that women are effectively working for free until the end of the year, which is totally untrue (if you don't believe me just check their Twitter page). Under the Equal Pay Act. 1970 and Equality Act. 2010, it is illegal to pay someone less for the same work and hours based solely on sex or gender. If this does happen to be happening to you then speak to your employer and, if you really have to, SUE THEM.

Good to read the latest missive from the youth spokesman for the alt right, sorry classic liberal. Funny that there is a never a missed opportunity to complain about awful lefty politicians yet little or no comment is made of right leaning politicians. I find that odd for someone with such "classic liberal" beliefs.

As for suing your current employer - this again shows your lack of experience with the world of work. Few people will sue their employer because thanks to your lovely conservative chums employment tribunal fees have rocketed to a level that those more cynical than me might consider prohibitively prevent those from less wealthy backgrounds from enforcing their rights (often it is only those evil commie unions that support people through this process) AND winning such a case is not conducive to your long term employment prospects!
 

Up_Tilt_390

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While the first part of your statement is obvious silliness designed to drive column inches there is an issue with gender pay inequality. Several posters have given examples, anecdotally, of the situation in their fields yet you seek to dismiss them. Perhaps when you have some experience of the world and the world of work you will be able to grade what your favorite alt right news groups tell you against the reality out in the real world. I set out below a few articles that only a few minutes reaidng via your favorite search engine would deliver:

There is an interesting article from the Torygraph that i am surprised you missed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/equal-pay-gender-pay-gap-britains-workplaces-6-myths-busted/

There is some useful information here: http://www.equalpayportal.co.uk/statistics/ ( you will no doubt dismiss the information as biased due to the nature of the charity collecting the data)

There is an interesting article here in the Independent ( which sadly is a bit of a comic these days) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...omen-wef-fawcett-society-income-a8046651.html

And then there is this page on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41805053



Good to read the latest missive from the youth spokesman for the alt right, sorry classic liberal. Funny that there is a never a missed opportunity to complain about awful lefty politicians yet little or no comment is made of right leaning politicians. I find that odd for someone with such "classic liberal" beliefs.

As for suing your current employer - this again shows your lack of experience with the world of work. Few people will sue their employer because thanks to your lovely conservative chums employment tribunal fees have rocketed to a level that those more cynical than me might consider prohibitively prevent those from less wealthy backgrounds from enforcing their rights (often it is only those evil commie unions that support people through this process) AND winning such a case is not conducive to your long term employment prospects!

Posting the articles would’ve been enough, you don’t need to go accusing me of being alt-right and conservative because you really don’t know me as a person. Perhaps you’ve missed me have a few jabs at Boris Johnson in the my Votes for 16 thread, or a few jabs at Donald Trump in a thread about the Texas school shooting. Maybe you’ve conveninelty missed the posts in which I put some workplace cultural issues down to the old conservative views of the old executives at the top of the corporate ladder? There’s not a reason to criticise the right in this particular thread because they’re not the ones who are making such a big deal out of it. I can’t imagine Theresa May, given her dislike for human rights, would be really interested in any pay gaps at all.

Frankly Darlo, just filling your post with all sorts of allegations of being an alt-right youth spokesmen (you probably don’t even know how old I am) and calling the conservatives my friends despite them being far from such isn’t doing you any favours. You also don’t know which kind of newsgroups I read or watch. All it does is make people less inclined to believe or listen to your arguments, and the fact you attack me personally could suggest you’ve lost already. Nevertheless, once I’ve returned I’ll be checking out what you’ve cited because I’m not the bigot you make me out to be.
 

headshot119

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While the first part of your statement is obvious silliness designed to drive column inches there is an issue with gender pay inequality. Several posters have given examples, anecdotally, of the situation in their fields yet you seek to dismiss them. Perhaps when you have some experience of the world and the world of work you will be able to grade what your favorite alt right news groups tell you against the reality out in the real world. I set out below a few articles that only a few minutes reaidng via your favorite search engine would deliver:

There is an interesting article from the Torygraph that i am surprised you missed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/equal-pay-gender-pay-gap-britains-workplaces-6-myths-busted/

There is some useful information here: http://www.equalpayportal.co.uk/statistics/ ( you will no doubt dismiss the information as biased due to the nature of the charity collecting the data)

There is an interesting article here in the Independent ( which sadly is a bit of a comic these days) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...omen-wef-fawcett-society-income-a8046651.html

And then there is this page on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41805053



Good to read the latest missive from the youth spokesman for the alt right, sorry classic liberal. Funny that there is a never a missed opportunity to complain about awful lefty politicians yet little or no comment is made of right leaning politicians. I find that odd for someone with such "classic liberal" beliefs.

As for suing your current employer - this again shows your lack of experience with the world of work. Few people will sue their employer because thanks to your lovely conservative chums employment tribunal fees have rocketed to a level that those more cynical than me might consider prohibitively prevent those from less wealthy backgrounds from enforcing their rights (often it is only those evil commie unions that support people through this process) AND winning such a case is not conducive to your long term employment prospects!

It’s recently changed again so employment tribunals no longer carry fees. A much welcome change. Doesn’t change your fact a tribunal is an absolute last resort and isn’t productive in terms of keeping a job.

See https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/w...tribunal/removal-of-employment-tribunal-fees/
 

DarloRich

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It’s recently changed again so employment tribunals no longer carry fees. A much welcome change. Doesn’t change your fact a tribunal is an absolute last resort and isn’t productive in terms of keeping a job.

See https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/w...tribunal/removal-of-employment-tribunal-fees/

Quite right - it took an enormous battle to reverse that decision, led by evil Trades Union, ACAS, CAB & employee rights groups. How many people have been stopped from enforcing their rights during the period is unknown. I suspect a large number.
 

DarloRich

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Posting the articles would’ve been enough, you don’t need to go accusing me of being alt-right and conservative because you really don’t know me as a person. Perhaps you’ve missed me have a few jabs at Boris Johnson in the my Votes for 16 thread, or a few jabs at Donald Trump in a thread about the Texas school shooting. Maybe you’ve conveninelty missed the posts in which I put some workplace cultural issues down to the old conservative views of the old executives at the top of the corporate ladder? There’s not a reason to criticise the right in this particular thread because they’re not the ones who are making such a big deal out of it. I can’t imagine Theresa May, given her dislike for human rights, would be really interested in any pay gaps at all.

Frankly Darlo, just filling your post with all sorts of allegations of being an alt-right youth spokesmen (you probably don’t even know how old I am) and calling the conservatives my friends despite them being far from such isn’t doing you any favours. You also don’t know which kind of newsgroups I read or watch. All it does is make people less inclined to believe or listen to your arguments, and the fact you attack me personally could suggest you’ve lost already. Nevertheless, once I’ve returned I’ll be checking out what you’ve cited because I’m not the bigot you make me out to be.

You may not be "alt right" but you seem to express a lot of views similar to their views. I would suggest your postings are closer to Libertarianism than Liberalism that you have suggested you subscribe to. You are right, however, that I don't know how old you. I suspect you either a student or are fresh out of college/university coming across lots of things for the first time and with not as wide a life experience as you like to think. I will also point out that forum rules prevent me from attacking you personally! BTW I am not so sensitive to criticism as others here so please feel free to attack me all you like.

As for all this stuff about not criticising the right over this issue just shows your naivety - they are not making an issue of it as they are the main beneficiaries of such pay inequality! They are the ones, like you, who want the status quo to continue. They, like you, are the ones seeking to minimse the issue. You seem unable to consider why that might be?
 

Up_Tilt_390

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You may not be "alt right" but you seem to express a lot of views similar to their views. I would suggest your postings are closer to Libertarianism than Liberalism that you have suggested you subscribe to.

White nationalism, identitarianism, and totalitarianism aren't exactly what I subscribe too, and I certainly have no sympathies for the neo-Nazis within that movement either. You'd be surprised as to how little I agree with them when it comes to other such issues such as abortion and religious power.

You are right, however, that I don't know how old you. I suspect you either a student or are fresh out of college/university coming across lots of things for the first time and with not as wide a life experience as you like to think.

Nope, I've been out of education and work for years, and won't be going back in the foreseeable future because of uncontrollable health issues. Not relevant to the argument, but I don't care, I think you ought to know how close you were to guessing.

BTW I am not so sensitive to criticism as others here so please feel free to attack me all you like.

No, not even you.

They are the ones, like you, who want the status quo to continue. They, like you, are the ones seeking to minimse the issue.

Except I don't want to minimise the issue, I want to get things straight by making it clear that the wage gap is down to many factors and isn't as simple as the left are making it out to be. Do you think I'd be advising someone to sue their employer if I wanted to minimise the issue? Cause creating publicity like that is a pretty bad way to do it. For someone who sought to dismiss any ideas of left-wing de-platforming in Universities despite an example being provided, and minimising the issue by calling anybody's experiences and research a load of rubbish, that's quite a bold claim coming from you. By the way, I had a look at your sources. They all didn't take long to mention the common factors of women being more likely to, and often do, take more time off work for childcare and are in lower paying jobs, and that men often work longer hours and in higher paying positions.

These factors appear every time someone posts a source to try and dispute my arguments, but often times they all just back up the points I just mentioned. There is literally nothing being added or taken away from the argument. I am just being forced to reiterate that women earn less because they work less and take more time off, often through maternity leave which, along with some life choices, are influenced by the ones at the top of the corporate ladder who didn't grow up in a time when women were more than secretaries and cleaners, and maintain their social values. I've said this several times, but clearly a lot of people are chosing to ignore those parts, or they aren't the thread thoroughly. Do you expect to just say to just change my mind the minute someone disputes an opinion? Because I don't do that, I try and see if these sources and experiences match up with the common factors to draw any conclusions and perhaps provide answers. The Vox report posted earlier has a very good explanation on the gap.

*Sigh* Darlo, I really have tried to convince myself that you're not an intolerant person who passes everyone's other research and experience as a load of rubbish all the time, but you're really making it harder for me to keep that view in mind, and I'm getting tired of fighting you every time I make a point about something political even if there's some degree of agreement. For example, we both agreed that parental views are more likely to influence a child than teachers, but instead we spent the majority of the time arguing over something else. It's attitudes like that which are why even some moderates have joined the alt-right, because the mainstream left have been so intolerant in recent years that people flock to the alt-right who pretend to be that moderate voice they need. It's how Trump got elected, and unfortunately in the long term, this will achieve undesirable results. Neither of us want that to happen, but things are not getting better as the days go by.
 

DarloRich

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OF COURSE there are a multitude of factors as to why there is a gender pay gap. It is far more complex than suggested in silly headlines such as those you present in the first post. That should be obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence. Those headlines do, however, allow a spotlight to be cast upon the issue. Surely that is also clear. Your argument is that women are, rightly, paid less because they work less hours and take more time off. I dispute that. That historically may have been the case but is not today. You seem unable to grasp this concept.

Women, doing the same job, for the same effort in the same hours are paid less. You seem to be happy to defend that. Why? I would like to see people paid the same level for doing the same job.

I have done some work in this area in trying to come up with a new pay system to right some of the wrongs and the differentials are shocking. I wont be posting the details as they are confidential but it was enough to satisfy me that there was a problem. These were women (and some men) paid substantially less then their colleagues in doing the same job. Before that I might have been more willing to subscribe to your view that this was the natural order of things because women do "lesser" jobs and take more time off. The truth is they don't and they are still paid less. That cant be right.

As for advising, glibly, someone to sue their employer - :rolleyes: - you have clearly never been in that place. It would be career ( and possibly financial) suicide for someone to take such a course of action which is why most people wont do so.
 

pemma

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One thing which I don't think has been mentioned is employer NI contributions work for favourably for full time employees than part time employees. When you also consider if you have two people doing one full time role between them an amount of time is spent with one person catching up with where the other person got up to (which doesn't add value to the business), it perhaps isn't considered unreasonable for an employer to offer say £24,000 for a full time role but only £11,500 to two people doing a full time role between them. However, as more women do part time work than full time work if what I described actually happens it'll affect women's pay more.
 

najaB

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...it perhaps isn't considered unreasonable for an employer to offer say £24,000 for a full time role but only £11,500 to two people doing a full time role between them. However, as more women do part time work than full time work if what I described actually happens it'll affect women's pay more.
It most certainly does. It is very common for two part-time people to be paid less between them than one full time person, at least it has been in organisations that I've worked in.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Your argument is that women are, rightly, paid less because they work less hours and take more time off. I dispute that. That historically may have been the case but is not today. You seem unable to grasp this concept.

It is historical but it does still linger in many industries. I have a relative who is a Managing Director, but often times you don't get female executives because often they are old conservative men. It's not as bad as it used to be, and people of the late Generation X and early Millennial generation will be the first to see gender roles go. They may be useful as wild animals, but in a first world society they don't mean a great deal.

Women, doing the same job, for the same effort in the same hours are paid less. You seem to be happy to defend that. Why? I would like to see people paid the same level for doing the same job.

I'll only so much defend it in certain cases. If a pay is negotiable and a woman so happens to negotiate a smaller salary than the man by nothing more than coincidence, I can't complain too much. I don't particularly like it when a woman is denied a higher negotiable rate because she has the burden of pregnancy and childcare not only by social standards, but by law too with regards to maternity leave. I understand why, but I think there needs to be a discussion on the parental leave system, otherwise I can't see many solutions that would work. Another case is the case of the CEO of Imperial Tobacco vs the CEO of British American Tobacco. The latter company earns over four times the revenue, and as such they can afford to pay their CEOs a bit more not only because of that, but because a good net income like that and added value to the company warrants a bonus. It limits their choices, but then it's probably for their financial interests. If a woman can add value to a company and increase revenue as a CEO, even more than a male CEO of another company, that too warrants a bonus.

Sometimes a negotiable salary increases with someone's previous experience too, and while a woman might have less experience than a man, the amount of work experience won't really be affected by someone's gender, so it's not a particularly huge factor unless I've made a serious mistake. For fixed wages, if they do the same job but less hours than men, then it's no surprise that they would earn less. If a woman is working 25 hours a week, while a man working 35 hours a week, then I don't see an issue. If it's for the same contracted hours, then maybe there's an issue with asking for a pay rise, which unfortunately is less forgiving to the women because of potential pregnancy once again. I mean you can't easily balance out a high paying job and a family life, but still it's almost like a punishment for potentially being able to get pregnant. Not much can be done about a woman's biology unfortunately.

I have done some work in this area in trying to come up with a new pay system to right some of the wrongs and the differentials are shocking. I wont be posting the details as they are confidential but it was enough to satisfy me that there was a problem. These were women (and some men) paid substantially less then their colleagues in doing the same job. Before that I might have been more willing to subscribe to your view that this was the natural order of things because women do "lesser" jobs and take more time off. The truth is they don't and they are still paid less. That cant be right.

Credit where it's due, at least you're actually doing something, which that shows you're not just one of those people who like to do virtue signalling to look good on the internet. I'm just hoping that your work produces satisfactory results for you. But as I've said, the period from gendered masculine and feminine jobs is gradually fading out, and because the gap is shortening I wouldn't expect these ideals to return unless children start getting brainwashed by old conservatives who want the return of gender roles and religious ideals. I hope that doesn't happen, I think there's enough problems with things like that now such as in religious schools where they teach the information in their textbooks as undisputed facts. I am not joking, somebody I knew was once sent home because their family didn't believe in god and said that she was wrong and should believe in god. You know as much as I don't like it, at least left-wing indoctrination is more subtle than that, and sometimes there is at least some degree of truth within it, even if it is blown out of proportion.

As for advising, glibly, someone to sue their employer - :rolleyes: - you have clearly never been in that place. It would be career ( and possibly financial) suicide for someone to take such a course of action which is why most people wont do so.

No, I've not actually been in that position before, so I'll have to give you that one. In fact, I'd be lucky to even have a job myself, so much to the point that I'd probably have to accept being a slave getting whipped across the back rather than leave and sue the employer for human rights abuse. Even if I did do that I doubt people like Theresa May, who is so well known for her brilliant record on human rights, would care very much.
 

Tetchytyke

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My brother works in a role where 80% of his colleagues doing the same role are female. They all earn the same. It's possible the role is undervalued but if that was the case why would it be gender discrimination?

Depends on the role, but yes, chances are it is indirect discrimination. A lot of it is very subtle, very nuanced, and often very not deliberate. It's a lot of history, of some jobs being more valued than their equivalents, to overturn.

But as I've said, the period from gendered masculine and feminine jobs is gradually fading out

Except it isn't, which is why we have a 20% pay gap...

Many jobs are still heavily gendered. Engineering is predominantly male, nursing is predominantly female, even now. The reasons for this are varied, most of it is indirect and insidious sexism, and it'll take lot of unravelling.
 

Tetchytyke

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However, as more women do part time work than full time work if what I described actually happens it'll affect women's pay more.

It does happen, and regularly, but the poor treatment of part time workers is a separate, but related, issue. The pay gap compares women and men in full time work.

Part time workers' rights are a massive problem in their own right.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Except it isn't, which is why we have a 20% pay gap...

Many jobs are still heavily gendered. Engineering is predominantly male, nursing is predominantly female, even now. The reasons for this are varied, most of it is indirect and insidious sexism, and it'll take lot of unravelling.

The gap has been closing over recent years though, just not a rate someone might want. That’s why I’m saying it’s gradually disappearing, but I’ve also acknowledged that there are still social expectations within society.

As for gendered roles? YES! We agree on something! I have done an engineering course, and only one in the class was female. I’ve never known a male to be a nurse (or maybe the male equivalent) but they always been female in my experience. I may have seen the odd male, but the point would still stand.

I think toys as children play a part. Boys get things such as builders sets while girls get things like kitchen sets. Some might consider that as hoisting gender roles on them at a young age, but then maybe it just appeals to them more often? Whatever floats their boat I’m fine with as long as they can chose what to do with their life.
 

najaB

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I think toys as children play a part. Boys get things such as builders sets while girls get things like kitchen sets. Some might consider that as hoisting gender roles on them at a young age, but then maybe it just appeals to them more often? Whatever floats their boat I’m fine with as long as they can chose what to do with their life.
It may be deeper than societal pressure Male monkeys prefer boys’ toys
t’s thought of as a sexual stereotype: boys tend to play with toy cars and diggers, while girls like dolls. But male monkeys, suggests research, are no different.

This could mean that males, whether human or monkey, have a biological predisposition to certain toys, says Kim Wallen, a psychologist at Yerkes National Primate Research Center in Atlanta, Georgia.

Wallen’s team looked at 11 male and 23 female rhesus monkeys. In general the males preferred to play with wheeled toys, such as dumper trucks, over plush dolls, while female monkeys played with both kinds of toys.

This conclusion may upset those psychologists who insist that sex differences – for example the tendency of boys to favour toy soldiers and girls to prefer dolls – depend on social factors, not innate differences.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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It may be deeper than societal pressure Male monkeys prefer boys’ toys

Hmm. What you’ve quoted seems very interesting. Though our DNA is different, monkeys are still primates like us. Since we have a common ancestor very far back, we may have similar common things we take interest in that has stayed with us for millions of years.

(Please not I’ve not read the whole thing just yet)
 

ComUtoR

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As for gendered roles? YES! We agree on something! I have done an engineering course, and only one in the class was female. I’ve never known a male to be a nurse (or maybe the male equivalent) but they always been female in my experience. I may have seen the odd male, but the point would still stand.

10% of nurses are male

A record number of male nurses are working in British hospitals.

Latest figures show more than one in ten nurses are men, compared with one in a hundred in the earliest days of the NHS more than 50 years ago.

Nursing leaders say they expect the figure will double over the next decade as more men than ever choose a profession which was traditionally seen as the preserve of women.

A total of 65,755 nurses - representing 10.21 per cent of the workforce - are male, according to figures from the Nursing and Midwifery Council yesterday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-145183/More-men-work-hospital-nurses.html
 

ComUtoR

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Now that is low! I guess I shouldn’t be surprised if I’ve never seen a male nurse in my life.

Male Nurses are common knowledge around my way. Maybe its because I've been into hospital on a few occasions and left my prejudice by the door that I see a well respected career, rather than a job for a woman.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Male Nurses are common knowledge around my way. Maybe its because I've been into hospital on a few occasions and left my prejudice by the door that I see a well respected career, rather than a job for a woman.

Hopefully in the future that will be a widespread attitude. I might've elaborated on the social standards that are expected of men and women when it comes to careers, but I'm really not bothered about it so long as they're qualified for the career. Some people get nervous about a woman train driver, but I've never let it bother me. If she's driving a train without an instructor, she's clearly qualified, and even with an instructor I wouldn't feel so nervous because she's being trained by a qualified driving instructor. Even if I felt nervous, I'd feel the same if it was a man under training.

Thumbs up for your attitude towards the nurses. ;) :smile:
 

pemma

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Do the figures take in to consideration footballers? If they do then the averages for some areas could be very misleading.
 

pemma

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Now that is low! I guess I shouldn’t be surprised if I’ve never seen a male nurse in my life.

Given not all doctors wear white coats and have a stethoscope around their neck and not all nurses wear a blue uniform it's possible some people mistake a male nurse for a doctor or a youngish female doctor for a nurse.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Given not all doctors wear white coats and have a stethoscope around their neck and not all nurses wear a blue uniform it's possible some people mistake a male nurse for a doctor or a youngish female doctor for a nurse.

In that case I don’t think I’ll ever be sure if I’ve seen a male nurse.
 
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