RMT dispute on XC

[Bletchleyite]

I agree. This is an industrial dispute. My issue is solely around the use of the emotive word “strike” where “industrial action” would be much more reflective.

I agree; a strike has a specific legal definition (just like, elsewhere on the forum, a fine does).

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Reservations also disabled for Sunday 26th November.

I reserved seats from Winchester to Birmingham International for the 26th November weeks ago. Does this mean they're no longer valid?

 

[222001]

This, once again, is ridiculous.

It is time ALL newly recruited shift-working railway staff had Sunday as part of the working week rota in order for this to filter through properly to the eventual goal of Sunday in the working week for all staff. Mandatory, by law, for all newly-let franchises. If you don't like it, don't apply for the new jobs. Existing staff would just see a slow reduction in Sunday overtime over time, something they can plan for, or if they wish move to the new contracts. (Sunday is not special for most people any more).

I believe this has been the case with East Midlands Trains for quite a while now. Certainly the jobs advertised said that Sunday formed part of the working week. It seems to have worked wonders too, as I haven't seen a cancelled Sunday train on EMT due to no staff for a very long time.

 

[221129]

I reserved seats from Winchester to Birmingham International for the 26th November weeks ago. Does this mean they're no longer valid?

Correct.

 

[221129]

This, once again, is ridiculous.

It is time ALL newly recruited shift-working railway staff had Sunday as part of the working week rota in order for this to filter through properly to the eventual goal of Sunday in the working week for all staff. Mandatory, by law, for all newly-let franchises. If you don't like it, don't apply for the new jobs. Existing staff would just see a slow reduction in Sunday overtime over time, something they can plan for, or if they wish move to the new contracts. (Sunday is not special for most people any more).

If the unions don't like it, let them strike. The short term pain would be good for long-term gain, and they will quickly lose passenger support on an issue like this that has nothing whatsoever to do with safety. (Indeed, reducing overtime reliance INCREASES safety).

That has nothing to do with the action in this thread.

 

[221129]

It doesn't meet that criteria though. They're simply not working their day off.

There is a one day strike taking place on one Saturday (I had heard it was this coming Saturday but doesn't look like it is) but as Sundays are outside the working week for XC Guards then it's simply not working their (optional) Sundays until Christmas.

Saturday the 9th December is what I've heard here.

 

[Loop & Link]

This, once again, is ridiculous.

If you don't like it, don't apply for the new jobs. Existing staff would just see a slow reduction in Sunday overtime over time, something they can plan for, or if they wish move to the new contracts. (Sunday is not special for most people any more).

If the unions don't like it, let them strike. The short term pain would be good for long-term gain, and they will quickly lose passenger support on an issue like this that has nothing whatsoever to do with safety. (Indeed, reducing overtime reliance INCREASES safety).

Every single thread, regarding this sort of thing, ughhhhh

For what it’s worth, my Sunday’s are outside the working week but you are committed to working certain amounts of booked Sundays (mine is 1 in 3) I can put myself N/A but if no one fancies grabbing then I’m committed to working it (except during 2 weeks A/L, and Sunday’s either side of A/L are different too)

I’d like to see something similar on other TOC’s such as XC, which would avoid this exact problem.

This bit though: -

It is time ALL newly recruited shift-working railway staff had Sunday as part of the working week rota in order for this to filter through properly to the eventual goal of Sunday in the working week for all staff. Mandatory, by law, for all newly-let franchises

So it’s a DfT/Franchise issue then? Never let this get in the way of a good old union/traincrew bash, though.

But for once, I’m actually in agreement with you over the above, I’d love their to be a TOC-wide Sunday agreement, not particularly a fan of traincrew being able to throw a Sunday in at short notice, when there’s countless Sunday’s I’ve had to work which I wanted off and it’s killed me to work, but that’s the way it is.

 

[Minilad]

Every single thread, regarding this sort of thing, ughhhhh

For what it’s worth, my Sunday’s are outside the working week but you are committed to working certain amounts of booked Sundays (mine is 1 in 3) I can put myself N/A but if no one fancies grabbing then I’m committed to working it (except during 2 weeks A/L, and Sunday’s either side of A/L are different too)

I’d like to see something similar on other TOC’s such as XC, which would avoid this exact problem.

Pretty much the same for XC drivers. TM's and SC's have different T&Cs though. They are able to throw Sundays in if notice is given before a certain time frame.

 

[alex17595]

According to the news Cross-country is still run by Virgin.

 

[Darandio]

What 'news'?

Are you sure they weren't talking about the Virgin strike which has made the news today as opposed to the CrossCountry strike that isn't a strike, which hasn't made the news?

 

[Kite159]

I reserved seats from Winchester to Birmingham International for the 26th November weeks ago. Does this mean they're no longer valid?

That train won't be running, no XC south of Reading judging by the information page on XC, you will need to change at both Basingstoke & Reading to connect with the Birmingham service [unless ticket acceptable gets put in allowing you to travel via London].

----

Agreed with Darandio reference Alex17595, are you not confusing it with the news of the vote for strike action by some members of staff on Virgin West Coast?

 

[AlterEgo]

That has nothing to do with the action in this thread.

I’m sure.

IIRC there have been a number of rest day working actions or threatened actions on XC - at least there were a few years ago. I thought the majority of these were fair game on the part of the staff. What’s the dispute over this time?

 

[fireftrm]

There are 14 days notice in the latest legislation, but this can be reduced to 7 days by agreement between the employer and the union, XC and the RMt may have that agreement, which would follow prior legislation. In that case they only knew on the 12th

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it’s a DfT/Franchise issue then? Never let this get in the way of a good old union/traincrew bash, though.

I don't believe DfT mandate the present mess, but I think they need to mandate the solution so there is a level playing field between all TOCs for new staff.

The deal you have would appear to make sense.

 

[XCTurbostar]

So in essence then. It isnt really a strike. Its more just not enough guards to work a sunday?

 

[221129]

So in essence then. It isnt really a strike. Its more just not enough guards to work a sunday?

This week... And it isn't a case of not enough guards as it is an overtime ban there are very few if any that will come in.

 

[6Gman]

Some classic Rail UK pedantry here. By which I mean 'pedantry' that is actually wrong. A significant part of the workforce is declining to work Sundays at the instruction of the union. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... And more to the point it meets the dictionary definition of "a cessation of work, or other obstructive refusal to act normally, as a means of putting pressure on employers, etc" (Chambers 10th edition - other dictionaries are available)

Unions do not have the power to instruct their members in this way.

 

[XCTurbostar]

This week... And it isn't a case of not enough guards as it is an overtime ban there are very few if any that will come in.

Do you think the services which XC expect to run are "pushing it" a bit?

 

[221129]

Do you think the services which XC expect to run are "pushing it" a bit?

Very much so.

 

[trainophile]

Right, so help needed please. I have tickets on XC for Newcastle to Edinburgh and back on Sunday. On reading the start of this thread I hastily got online and found alternative VTEC trains that would fit my itinerary, which are currently in my basket. I now come back and see mention of a Virgin strike on the same day. Before I throw good money after bad, can someone clarify whether (a) XC are intending to operate between NCL and EDB, and (b) is a Virgin (EC?) strike on the cards too?

 

[Essan]

Given that trains have been running an extensive service on Sundays for quite a while now (how many decades?), it does seem odd that its not considered a "normal working day". Bit like pub staff or firemen suddenly deciding not to work on Sundays cos it should be their "day off".

On the other hand, I accept the argument that those who are regular church-goers should not have be forced to work on Sunday, assuming when they accepted employment, Sunday was not classified as a normal working day.

 

[Starmill]

Given that trains have been running an extensive service on Sundays for quite a while now (how many decades?), it does seem odd that its not considered a "normal working day". Bit like pub staff or firemen suddenly deciding not to work on Sundays cos it should be their "day off".

From my loose understanding, the cause of this is that CrossCountry have not restructured their variety of old contracts for conductors and train managers, but they did do this for drivers.

 

[Starmill]

Right, so help needed please. I have tickets on XC for Newcastle to Edinburgh and back on Sunday. On reading the start of this thread I hastily got online and found alternative VTEC trains that would fit my itinerary, which are currently in my basket. I now come back and see mention of a Virgin strike on the same day. Before I throw good money after bad, can someone clarify whether (a) XC are intending to operate between NCL and EDB, and (b) is a Virgin (EC?) strike on the cards too?

If I were you trainophile I would hold off completely on making any bookings just now. For one, the announced strike action on Virgin Trains does not affect Virgin Trains East Coast. For another, your XC tickets are likely to be arranged for acceptance by Virgin Trains East Coast. The limited information CrossCountry have published suggests they will not be running on this route. Out of interest how much were your tickets? If you don't mind travelling Standard class an Off-Peak Return is £34.70 with a railcard, so unless you secured Advance tickets at £10ish or less I'm wondering if the saving is worthwhile?

 

[221129]

Right, so help needed please. I have tickets on XC for Newcastle to Edinburgh and back on Sunday. On reading the start of this thread I hastily got online and found alternative VTEC trains that would fit my itinerary, which are currently in my basket. I now come back and see mention of a Virgin strike on the same day. Before I throw good money after bad, can someone clarify whether (a) XC are intending to operate between NCL and EDB, and (b) is a Virgin (EC?) strike on the cards too?

No and no. You do not need to buy new tickets either.

 

[Qwerty133]

Given that trains have been running an extensive service on Sundays for quite a while now (how many decades?), it does seem odd that its not considered a "normal working day". Bit like pub staff or firemen suddenly deciding not to work on Sundays cos it should be their "day off".

On the other hand, I accept the argument that those who are regular church-goers should not have be forced to work on Sunday, assuming when they accepted employment, Sunday was not classified as a normal working day.

Presumably any policy that guaranteed 'regular church goers' a set day off while all other staff have to work a rotation of all 7 days would be religious discrimination, and why should Bob's desire to continue to go to church on Sundays be treated any differently than Steve's desire to continue to watch football on Sundays if Sundays were not included in the working week when they both joined.

 

[Essan]

Presumably any policy that guaranteed 'regular church goers' a set day off while all other staff have to work a rotation of all 7 days would be religious discrimination, and why should Bob's desire to continue to go to church on Sundays be treated any differently than Steve's desire to continue to watch football on Sundays if Sundays were not included in the working week when they both joined.

I agree, I was just trying to be reasonable to those of a strict religious nature who joined the railways never expecting to have to work on a Sunday

I would hope it applies to no-one!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Seeing as I'm a devout Jedi, I should have 14th December off as I will be attending my place of worship...

Last time I checked (about 30 years ago) most Christian church denominations offered Saturday night services / Mass for those whose employment required Sunday work.

 

[Essan]

Seeing as I'm a devout Jedi, I should have 14th December off as I will be attending my place of worship...

I thought it was May the 4th?

 

[Starmill]

I reserved seats from Winchester to Birmingham International for the 26th November weeks ago. Does this mean they're no longer valid?

As you've been informed, that's correct. Is your journey essential? You're entitled to a full refund on your tickets if you choose not to travel. If you do travel and you are delayed by 30 minutes or more, you will also be able to claim some compensation.

 

[trainophile]

If I were you trainophile I would hold off completely on making any bookings just now. For one, the announced strike action on Virgin Trains does not affect Virgin Trains East Coast. For another, your XC tickets are likely to be arranged for acceptance by Virgin Trains East Coast. The limited information CrossCountry have published suggests they will not be running on this route. Out of interest how much were your tickets? If you don't mind travelling Standard class an Off-Peak Return is £34.70 with a railcard, so unless you secured Advance tickets at £10ish or less I'm wondering if the saving is worthwhile?

Oh dear, the thread seemed to have bypassed my query and there was only one 1st Class ticket left at one of the cheaper tiers for the return leg of my revised journey on VTEC so I went ahead and booked for both directions. I was thinking if the XC trains aren't running (and the TP website is showing "sold out" against all trains on my original bookings) then I should be able to get a refund - they are not to know that I didn't decide not to travel, but booked with an alternative operator.

No and no. You do not need to buy new tickets either.

Thanks for that, as above it's too late as I've booked on VTEC. Glad to hear they are not striking on that day as well!