RMT dispute on XC

[Mag_seven]

Solution to this is simple - make Sundays part of the normal working week. It beggars belief that in 2017 an essential service should have outdated working practices such as this. Negotiate but don't give in to any silly union demands for whacking great pay increases to compensate.

 

[Eccles1983]

For you maybe. These colleagues you speak of will be the first ones to throw you under the bus if the money is right.

Have you anything to back up this claim?

 

[I13]

This page should answer a lot of queries people might have.

 

[Darandio]

Solution to this is simple - make Sundays part of the normal working week.

We've already been there further up the thread, look out for 'Eccles1983' thoughts on the matter. Watch out though, you'll be next in the firing line.

 

[Mag_seven]

We've already been there further up the thread, look out for 'Eccles1983' thoughts on the matter. Watch out though, you'll be next in the firing line.

Yeah you can't get into church on a Sunday these days as they are all full with off-duty railwaymen.

 

[Darandio]

Have you anything to back up this claim?

Well of course not, but do you really believe that it won't happen because your band of brothers will continue refusing it? Everyone has a price, even you.

 

[yorkie]

Right, so help needed please. I have tickets on XC for Newcastle to Edinburgh and back on Sunday. On reading the start of this thread I hastily got online and found alternative VTEC trains that would fit my itinerary, which are currently in my basket. I now come back and see mention of a Virgin strike on the same day. Before I throw good money after bad, can someone clarify whether (a) XC are intending to operate between NCL and EDB, and (b) is a Virgin (EC?) strike on the cards too?

If you buy the XC ticket and XC are not running, then you can either not use them and get a refund, or you can travel on alternative VTEC services using the XC tickets as advised. If the alternative service gets you to your destination 30 or more minutes late, you will also be able to claim Delay Repay compensation

 

[Starmill]

Oh dear, the thread seemed to have bypassed my query and there was only one 1st Class ticket left at one of the cheaper tiers for the return leg of my revised journey on VTEC so I went ahead and booked for both directions. I was thinking if the XC trains aren't running (and the TP website is showing "sold out" against all trains on my original bookings) then I should be able to get a refund - they are not to know that I didn't decide not to travel, but booked with an alternative operator.

I responded within 10 minutes!

You should be able to apply for a refund on the XC tickets from the retailler that originally sold them. I'd recommend an email or phone call to them ASAP.

However, if your replacement tickets have cost more than the XC tickets you bought then you will still be out of pocket by this amount, which you would not have been (even to travel on the same trains) if you'd held off booking.

 

[Starmill]

I see VTEC are up to their usual tricks of saying they will accept tickets but then refusing to do so on most services.

How exactly can this be adequately explained to most customers?

 

[trainophile]

I responded within 10 minutes!

You should be able to apply for a refund on the XC tickets from the retailler that originally sold them. I'd recommend an email or phone call to them ASAP.

However, if your replacement tickets have cost more than the XC tickets you bought then you will still be out of pocket by this amount, which you would not have been (even to travel on the same trains) if you'd held off booking.

I know, I panicked . It was the "one ticket left" combined with the "no seat reservations" thing. If I can get a refund (unfortunately I booked on TPE so they might say it's nothing to do with them) I'll be about £10 out of pocket. I knew arranging my excursion to Inverkeithing (so I can cross the water once more before the end of the year) on a Sunday was going to be tricky, coupled with the fact that I'm actually staying at Hexham so had to tie in with trains between there and Newcastle. Never mind, it will be an adventure!

 

[yorkie]

... If I can get a refund (unfortunately I booked on TPE so they might say it's nothing to do with them) I'll be about £10 out of pocket....

TPE cannot say that; they are the retailer. If the train is cancelled and you choose not to travel, the retailer must refund you.

 

[sheff1]

It is still withdrawal of labour because of a disagreement with management.

When I was working I NEVER worked on my rest days. That was not a "withdrawal of labour" as I was not contracted to "labour" on those days, so there was nothing to withdraw.

 

[Starmill]

(unfortunately I booked on TPE so they might say it's nothing to do with them)

They are obliged to provide you with a refund. Hopefully you selected collection and have not yet picked the tickets up? If you have time to spare tomorrow call 0344 556 5637 and explain the situation, mention the XC website which says there will be no seat reservations and no services north of York. I am sure they will refund you, I have only ever had good experiences with TPE web support. If they don't help you, create a new thread with all of the details.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

But if everyone collectively decides to exercise their right, then this is surely industrial action. Is the phrase 'work to rule'? Or is this an obsolete term nowadays.

 

[DarloRich]

Unfortunately Sunday is a day on which people often like to use the train. Sundays will inevitably have to come into the working week, though I fully support any union trying to obtain fair compensation for this. (A lot will oppose it, because rest day working is lucrative, wink wink).

Correct. It should happen in exchange for a fair reward for altering terms and conditions

 

[sheff1]

"Work to rule" is defined as following official working rules and hours exactly in order to reduce output and efficiency, especially as a form of industrial action.

This never made any sense to me. People should follow working rules exactly at all times and doing so would only impact on output and efficiency if the rules were normally being broken. If the rules do not need to be followed for any constructive reason they shouldn't be rules in the first place.

 

[trainophile]

They are obliged to provide you with a refund. Hopefully you selected collection and have not yet picked the tickets up? If you have time to spare tomorrow call 0344 556 5637 and explain the situation, mention the XC website which says there will be no seat reservations and no services north of York. I am sure they will refund you, I have only ever had good experiences with TPE web support. If they don't help you, create a new thread with all of the details.

Sadly I collected my tickets for the entire trip ages ago - I usually do it as soon as poss after booking. I'm travelling every day for the next five, (anyone would think I liked trains!) I will investigate means of claiming a refund, it shouldn't be an issue as they are Advance tickets so it's going to be easy enough to check that the specific trains didn't run. Thanks yorkie, I haven't had a lot of luck with cross-TOC claims (ATW and the old East Coast passed the buck for ages and then eventually I gave up) but hopefully TPE are more efficient.

 

[yorkie]

The term "work to rule" probably is a bit misleading, yes, but I believe that is what it is (or was) known as.

 

[yorkie]

...I haven't had a lot of luck with cross-TOC claims (ATW and the old East Coast passed the buck for ages and then eventually I gave up) ...

Send me a PM with a link to your thread (if there isn't one, please do make one) and also your reference number with VTEC and TF and I'll chase it for you. (please reply by PM though rather than here as this thread is to discuss the XC disruption on Sunday)

 

[Mag_seven]

The term "work to rule" probably is a bit misleading, yes, but I believe that is what it is (or was) known as.

I've also heard the term "action short of a strike" used. With this "only volunteers have to work Sundays" contract it is effectively a strike in all but name.

 

[Starmill]

You will most likely need to post the tickets back to them then before they will refund you, which makes it all the more important to do it soon.

 

[Red Dragon]

Having read the thread I don't think XC will be running on Sunday 26th Nov.
I'm travelling out on Friday 24th and back from Cardiff via Birmingham and Leeds using XC on Sunday 26th Nov.
I have split tickets through Trainsplit (with lots of splits between Ilkley and Merthyr Tydfil).

I'm going to a big rugby match in Cardiff on Sat 25th, but I'm thinking I should cut my losses now and go out and back from Ilkley via LDS MAN SHR NWP CDF to get to Merthyr Tydfil. Another possible route is via East Coast to KGX and then PAD to CDF on GWR and on to Merthyr. With the reverse for Sunday 26th.

Your views would be appreciated !

 

[221129]

Having read the thread I don't think XC will be running on Sunday 26th Nov.
I'm travelling out on Friday 24th and back from Cardiff via Birmingham and Leeds using XC on Sunday 26th Nov.
I have split tickets through Trainsplit (with lots of splits between Ilkley and Merthyr Tydfil).

I'm going to a big rugby match in Cardiff on Sat 25th, but I'm thinking I should cut my losses now and go out and back from Ilkley via LDS MAN SHR NWP CDF to get to Merthyr Tydfil. Another possible route is via East Coast to KGX and then PAD to CDF on GWR and on to Merthyr. With the reverse for Sunday 26th.

Your views would be appreciated !

What tickets do you hold?

 

[Starmill]

Arriva Trains Wales and TransPennine Express are listed as accepting XC tickets on 19th November, they will therefore probably accept them on 25th too - you can check back closer to the time.

However, XC if it's the same as this weekend they will be running trains from Cheltenham Spa towards Leeds. It seems likely that with the reduced service they will by 8/9/10 car formations so you will probably still be fine doing that. The only potential problem with this would be the limited ATW service from Cardiff Central to Cheltenham Spa: 1030, 1224, 1425, 1625 and 1824.

I assume that your tickets are something like Ikley to Leeds CDS and then Leeds to Chesterfield, Chesterfield to Birmingham Stations, Birmingham Stations to Cheltenham Spa and Cheletenham Spa to Cardiff Central Advnaces?

 

[Red Dragon]

I'm in London at the moment so I don't have the tickets with me.
From memory there are both APs and OP Returns split at all the usual points Leeds, Sheffield Derby Birmingham, and Cheltenham.
I'm travelling home tomorrow so can check then.

 

[Suraggu]

I see VTEC are up to their usual tricks of saying they will accept tickets but then refusing to do so on most services.

How exactly can this be adequately explained to most customers?

Hardly VTEC's Fault though. No service across the entire EC all day and VTEC services are usually fit to bursting on Sundays. I am surprised they are accepting them considering this industrial action is an overtime ban.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

As you've been informed, that's correct. Is your journey essential? You're entitled to a full refund on your tickets if you choose not to travel. If you do travel and you are delayed by 30 minutes or more, you will also be able to claim some compensation.

It's for the Warley exhibition, for which I've booked my ticket as well.

 

[Starmill]

I am surprised more buses haven't been sourced for things like Edinburgh to Newcastle, as it seems likely that some trains will be completely full and standing. No 1813 Edinburgh to Aberdeen sounds like a recipe for disaster on the 1836, particularly because after that there is no ScotRail service until the 2100.

 

[trainophile]

I am surprised more buses haven't been sourced for things like Edinburgh to Newcastle, as it seems likely that some trains will be completely full and standing. No 1813 Edinburgh to Aberdeen sounds like a recipe for disaster on the 1836.

I just hope VTEC don't declassify 1st and/or say seat reservations are not being applied.

 

[1e10]

When the unions rule to ban overtime - do members have any discretion to ignore that ruling and work regardless?