Croydon Tramlink

[Domh245]

Curious. I am at least certain that the old display formats were in use on the evening of 17th July when I caught an eastbound tram from Lebanon Rd.

By my reckoning, the transition day was 2 tuesdays ago (25th July) or possibly the day before that. I've had a look through the photos on my phone to see if I took a photo to mark the occasion, but it seems that I didn't.

I did however come across a photo I took of No 2533 at Wimbledon with a fairly obvious additional panel on the side of the centre car - any ideas as to what this is anyone?

 

[edwin_m]

By my reckoning, the transition day was 2 tuesdays ago (25th July) or possibly the day before that. I've had a look through the photos on my phone to see if I took a photo to mark the occasion, but it seems that I didn't.

I did however come across a photo I took of No 2533 at Wimbledon with a fairly obvious additional panel on the side of the centre car - any ideas as to what this is anyone?

That link requires a login.

 

[Domh245]

That link requires a login.

Should now be fixed

 

[londonbridge]

TFL proposing to go cashless on the trams:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/rail/cashless-trams/?cid=cashless-trams

Overview

We are seeking your views on our proposal to no longer accept cash payments for paper tram tickets bought from the ticket machines at tram stops, and to remove these ticket machines, which only sell a small number of the more expensive paper tickets every week. This won’t change other ways you pay for your travel such as pay as you go with contactless or an Oyster card, Travelcards or Bus & Tram Passes.

Why We Are Consulting

A single paper ticket purchased from a ticket machine is £2.60. The equivalent pay as you go single fare with contactless or an Oyster card is just £1.50. Only 0.3 per cent of single tram journeys are paid for using a ticket purchased from a ticket machine at a tram stop. This is less than 250 tickets per day. Talking to customers, we know that most people already carry another means of paying for their travel (such as a contactless payment card). As these ticket machines have such low usage and have now reached the end of their useful life, it is no longer cost effective for us to maintain them or have them replaced.

There are a range of alternative ticketing options which offer better value and more convenience than buying paper tickets from a ticket machine. The easiest way to pay for your travel is to pay as you go using contactless or Oyster:

The pay as you go single fare using contactless or an Oyster card is £1.50. The equivalent paper ticket from a ticket machine is £2.60
With pay as you go, you can benefit from the Hopper fare, which gives a second tram or bus journey for free within one hour of touching in on the first tram or bus journey
With pay as you go daily capping, you can make as many journeys as you like in a single day and the amount you pay will be limited
If you pay as you go with contactless, you can also benefit from weekly (Monday to Sunday) capping.

To get an Oyster card, you will need to pay a £5 deposit, and then add pay as you go credit or a season ticket before you can travel. You can get an Oyster card from almost 4,000 local shops in London known as Oyster Ticket Stops. You can also get an Oyster card from the Tramlink shop, Tube, London Overground and TfL Rail stations, some National Rail stations, Visitor Centres and Oyster online if you live in the UK.

For more information about ticket options, or to find your nearest Oyster Ticket Stop, visit tfl.gov.uk/fares.

You can speak to us at one of our pop-up stands and have your say below. We will update this page with details of these pop-up stands shortly.

Please submit your views by Sunday 29 October 2017.

The link above includes a further link to the online survey page.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sounds like a no brainer to me, although potentially a pain if no ticket stop near you and you dont wish to use contactless.

 

[Clip]

Sounds like a no brainer to me, although potentially a pain if no ticket stop near you and you dont wish to use contactless.

This is my issue with it too as if you get a very early tram from say elmers end then there isn't anywhere close to top up.

They need oyster enabled tvms.

 

[paddington]

I have never seen anybody buying or using a paper ticket in 8 years of using the trams, sometimes regularly and sometimes irregularly.

(This is purely anecdotal but I encounter revenue inspections much more frequently these days even compared to 6 months ago, and I pay attention to whether people are paying by Oyster or contactless. And I observe that the majority of passengers are using Oyster.)

Therefore, removing the tram ticket machines will not impact anybody negatively.

But if TfL actually wants to do something positive for passengers then they should be replaced with ticket machines that allow you to top up your Oyster. In fact if it is possible to install the tube ticket machines that would be preferable - then you could buy travelcards too. Though perhaps there is no real need for them to sell new Oysters.

There wouldn't need to be any tram ticket machines at East Croydon, West Croydon, Mitcham Junction, Beckenham Junction or Elmers End. I don't recall seeing any tram machines at Wimbledon.

I also observe that a lot of people use cash to top up their Oyster at the rail stations mentioned in the previous paragraph. TfL should continue to offer machines that accept cash until less than 1 person per day per machine uses cash.

 

[matt_world2004]

It sounds like they are getting rid of the ticket machines completely.

I wonder how that leaves tfl in respect to revenue enforcement on the route, if the tram is classed as a railway and there are no ticket purchasing facilities available.

 

[edwin_m]

It sounds like they are getting rid of the ticket machines completely.

I wonder how that leaves tfl in respect to revenue enforcement on the route, if the tram is classed as a railway and there are no ticket purchasing facilities available.

TfL treat it as a bus for these purposes and it's not part of the national rail network.

 

[matt_world2004]

TfL treat it as a bus for these purposes and it's not part of the national rail network.

I thought the railway bylaws applied to anything that runs on track not nessescarily just national rail services

 

[djpontrack]

Hi. Can somebody please tell me, what the highest number tram is that runs on Tramlink?
Myself and Mrs djpontrack are going to Croydon soon and I hope to get some of the newer trams for haulage.
Thanks.

 

[bluegoblin7]

The original 1998/9 Bombardier CR4000 trams are numbered 2530-2553, however 2551 is not presently on the network after last year's incident at Sandilands.

The first (2011-2) batch of Stadler Variobahns are numbered 2554-2559 and the later (2015-6) batch are 2560-2565.

 

[djpontrack]

The original 1998/9 Bombardier CR4000 trams are numbered 2530-2553, however 2551 is not presently on the network after last year's incident at Sandilands.

The first (2011-2) batch of Stadler Variobahns are numbered 2554-2559 and the later (2015-6) batch are 2560-2565.

Thanks for that bluegoblin7.
I've had all the Bombardier CR4000s for haulage and some of the earlier Stadler Variobahns.
I didn't know there was so many Stadler Variobahns so I hope to get a few more of them.
Thanks again mate.

 

[paddington]

Over the past few nights there have been revenue protection inspections on trams from about 8pm to very late, sometimes with police support. 3-4 people seem to be caught on every tram.

Later in the evening seems like a smarter time to do it, though obviously they need to be unpredictable. Over the summer I encountered more inspections during the morning and afternoon, which led to long delays since trams were more crowded, and they rarely caught anybody during the mornings.

The RPIs appear to be employees of First - I wonder how that works with regards to TfL.

 

[Antman]

Over the past few nights there have been revenue protection inspections on trams from about 8pm to very late, sometimes with police support. 3-4 people seem to be caught on every tram.

Later in the evening seems like a smarter time to do it, though obviously they need to be unpredictable. Over the summer I encountered more inspections during the morning and afternoon, which led to long delays since trams were more crowded, and they rarely caught anybody during the mornings.

The RPIs appear to be employees of First - I wonder how that works with regards to TfL.

I'm surprised, revenue checks usually seem to be very few and far between. The RPI's are indeed employed by First and they perform other duties as well, sometimes driving trams.

 

[Antman]

It sounds like they are getting rid of the ticket machines completely.

I wonder how that leaves tfl in respect to revenue enforcement on the route, if the tram is classed as a railway and there are no ticket purchasing facilities available.

Same as on the buses, if you haven't got an oyster you either make other arrangements or have a free ride, usually the latter.

 

[matt_world2004]

Over the past few nights there have been revenue protection inspections on trams from about 8pm to very late, sometimes with police support. 3-4 people seem to be caught on every tram.

Later in the evening seems like a smarter time to do it, though obviously they need to be unpredictable. Over the summer I encountered more inspections during the morning and afternoon, which led to long delays since trams were more crowded, and they rarely caught anybody during the mornings.

The RPIs appear to be employees of First - I wonder how that works with regards to TfL.

I believe like tfl rail and london overground there is a financial incentive awarded to first to deter ticketless travel . I dont believe buses or london underground/buses rpis have juristiction on tramlink although both have been asked to ride the tram in the past to provide reassurance to passengers. Followiln the croydon tram crash

There are always issues with riding on the contracted rail services with an unusual ticket. Tfl contractor tickets always caused issues for example

 

[Clip]

A rather refreshing revenue block this morning at Arena stop - 2 pcso/btp at each end of platform, inspectors swarm on when everyone has boarded , do their checks then get off and allow the tram to carry on its journey.

 

[theageofthetra]

A rather refreshing revenue block this morning at Arena stop - 2 pcso/btp at each end of platform, inspectors swarm on when everyone has boarded , do their checks then get off and allow the tram to carry on its

journey.

Bet that had them all scurrying. How many got done?

 

[Clip]

I wasn't paying much attention to be honest just sat down with me book and held out my bank card

 

[Antman]

A rather refreshing revenue block this morning at Arena stop - 2 pcso/btp at each end of platform, inspectors swarm on when everyone has boarded , do their checks then get off and allow the tram to carry on its journey.

There was something similar at Wandle Park a few weeks ago, there was an event going on there and police had drug dogs. They didn't get on the tram I was on though as it was packed.

 

[theageofthetra]

There was something similar at Wandle Park a few weeks ago, there was an event going on there and police had drug dogs. They didn't get on the tram I was on though as it was packed.

When the Bendy buses were about there used to be a regular rev block on Grosvenor Place where my mrs worked. At one (& she took a pic) there were 15+ all lined up against the wall outside her office. At least 3 Met were required, which tells you everything about the route involved.

 

[mmh]

Those TVMs are ancient (they're the originals and the same design as those bought by SNCF and RATP around 20 years ago, most of which have been replaced). I'd be surprised if they could be updated to support Oyster and imagine they may be replaced in the coming years. They haven't even yet updated them to accept new £1 coins or £5 notes!

Apologies for replying to an old thread, but this reminded me of being surprised (in 2008) that Grenoble's tram ticket machines were identical to Croydon's, and after selecting to use English thanked me for using Croydon Tramlink. (It almost made me feel at home, my closest "station" is a Tramlink stop"

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmhmm/2206881400/

 

[Busaholic]

When the Bendy buses were about there used to be a regular rev block on Grosvenor Place where my mrs worked. At one (& she took a pic) there were 15+ all lined up against the wall outside her office. At least 3 Met were required, which tells you everything about the route involved.

And at the first stop Northbound in Park Lane - delayed there once for 15 minutes and I was only wanting to get to Oxford Street from Victoria! They did manage to nab an old dear who'd forgotten her Freedom Pass, so they might have considered it a 'result.'

 

[Busaholic]

It seems that the impending decrease in scheduled speeds on parts of the system will do more than just increase journey times but lead, once again, to some serious tweaking in order that headways are not too badly impacted on the most heavily used sections. Wimbledon may find itself connected to Beckenham for the first time and route 1 (Elmers End to the West Croydon loop and back) may disappear during daytimes on weekdays. Nothing officially announced, as far as I'm aware, but the changes may not go down well in New Addington.

 

[urpert]

Entirely anecdotal, but I haven’t seen a CR2000 on route 2 for several weeks (solid Stadler). I asked them on twitter and they insisted there isn’t any formal diagramming of types to a particular route at the moment, though.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm finding it difficult to get up-to-date timetables for Tramlink, but I have heard the following and wonder whether anyone living locally, or maybe just possessing better online skills than my own (not difficult!) can confirm or deny-

1) Route numbers have been abandoned
2) Routes have been recast so that trams from Wimbledon now go on to the Elmers End and Beckenham branches, leaving the Addington trams to do the Croydon town centre loop, which of course they did on the opening of the system in 2000
3) The frequency on the Elmers and Beck branches remains at 10 minutes in the peaks, but is reduced to 15 minutes max offpeak, the worst ever. This also means Wimbledon gets a slightly worse service offpeak.
4) This has supposedly been done partly because of lower speed limits on sections as a result of last November's tragedy

Any thoughts/info?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

1) Last time I was passing Wimbledon about a week and a half ago they were carrying route numbers.

2) I recall seeing a poster saying there had been a route shuffle, but I did not pay attention to the details.

3) and 4) - Sorry, no idea.

 

[Antman]

1) Last time I was passing Wimbledon about a week and a half ago they were carrying route numbers.

2) I recall seeing a poster saying there had been a route shuffle, but I did not pay attention to the details.

3) and 4) - Sorry, no idea.

As far as I'm aware the proposed changes have been deferred.

 

[Clip]

New route shuffle coming in soon

New tram timetables
We are changing the timetable to make our service more reliable and less crowded, with more even intervals between trams.
The changes include:

• Trams will operate every 5 minutes between Wimbledon and Arena, with even gaps between trams to make waiting times more predictable
• At Arena, each alternate tram will branch off to either Beckenham Junction or Elmers End, providing each branch with a regular 10-minute service
• The New Addington service will run to West Croydon, rather than Wimbledon, every 7-8 minutes (the same frequency as now)
• Most Elmers End services will operate through to Wimbledon rather than West Croydon, except in the evenings and Sundays
• Early morning trams in some areas, including the New Addington and Wimbledon branches, will be more frequent to carry more people

Overall, the changes will reduce typical wait times for more than three quarters of customers. Waiting times will be more predictable, with less uncertainty caused by irregular intervals between trams.

The service will be more reliable. There will be fewer delays, and the network will return to good service more quickly after a delay. Trams and tram stops will be less crowded.

We are planning to no longer display line numbers on the front of trams. This means destination information can be bigger and easier to see.

Why we are doing this
At the moment there can be a long wait for a tram followed by several at once. This causes some trams to be very crowded. It also means it can take a long time to restore a full service after a delay. Without action, these problems will get worse as the network gets busier.

We have a long-term plan to improve the tram network. Adjusting the timetable is the first step. In future we hope to run more frequent trams on some routes, and we will continue to look at possible extensions.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/trams/new-tram-timetables?cid=trams-changes