Aviation Discussion

[atillathehunn]

Can't find a citation for it.

Rio - Sao Paulo has 284 movements per day. Not believing Madrid Barca beats that

 

[Bald Rick]

This is tucked away in the Wiki page that lists busiest international air routes. The Madrid-Barca AVE started in 2008. I agree it is very unlikely that those passenger numbers supported that many flights.


**Madrid-Barcelona had 4,627,000 passengers in 2007, meaning a reduction by 34% in 2010, partly because of a new high-speed railway. The decline has continued from 560 weekly flights in 2010 to 380 in 2012.

 

[fowler9]

Maybe the figure I saw was the busiest in Europe.

 

[atillathehunn]

560 evenly distributed throughout the week would give only 80 flights per day. While a lot, it's not quite at Dublin - London level in terms of aircraft movement. However, in terms of passenger numbers it might well be up near the top.

 

[fowler9]

560 evenly distributed throughout the week would give only 80 flights per day. While a lot, it's not quite at Dublin - London level in terms of aircraft movement. However, in terms of passenger numbers it might well be up near the top.

Are they current or pre AVE figures. Also they are all flights from El Prat to Barajas. The London to Dublin figures include airports that really aren't in London.

 

[berneyarms]

Are they current or pre AVE figures. Also they are all flights from El Prat to Barajas. The London to Dublin figures include airports that really aren't in London.

If you mean Southend with regard to Dublin, that’s only started this October, and is only 3 flights a day on certain days of the week.

That will make sod all difference to the overall figures.

The other airports are most definitely entitled to be categorised as London (Luton, Stansted, Gatwick, Heathrow and City).

 

[fowler9]

If you mean Southend with regard to Dublin, that’s only started this October, and is only 3 flights a day on certain days of the week.

That will make sod all difference to the overall figures.

The other airports are most definitely entitled to be categorised as London (Luton, Stansted, Gatwick, Heathrow and City).

Luton and Stansted are as far from London as Manchester is from Liverpool. El Prat to Barajas is one route between two airports.

 

[berneyarms]

Luton and Stansted are as far from London as Manchester is from Liverpool. El Prat to Barajas is one route between two airports.

Ah now, come on. They are universally recognised as London airports - claiming otherwise is pushing things.

I’d be the first to criticise Ryanair’s claims of airports being associated with cities (like Charleroi or Hahn), but Stansted and Luton are accepted as London airports and part of the are LON code group of airports that represents London.

Looking at routes, and comparing passenger numbers, it is normal to look at the numbers based on a group of airports that can be coded together.

 

[atillathehunn]

Like it or lump it they are 'London' airports, catering to the population of London and the SE. You can't rule them out of the statistics because you don't like them. Hahn and Charleroi are definitely pushing it.

Manchester and Liverpool are cities in their own right. But they serve massive catchment areas, but we can't add everything to the name. We could also call Gatwick the London, Sussex, Surrey, West Sussex, Kent, Hampshire airport, but it would be a mouthful. For all intents and purposes they are London airports - they are primarily serving the London population.

 

[fowler9]

Hey folks, all I was saying was that I understood El Prat to Barajas used to be the busiest domestic point to point route. If I am wrong then fair play. If you think alternative airports a quarter of the distance to say Liverpool, Manchester or Leeds should also be included along with a route that goes to a different country (Ireland) then fair play.

 

[berneyarms]

Hey folks, all I was saying was that I understood El Prat to Barajas used to be the busiest domestic point to point route. If I am wrong then fair play. If you think alternative airports a quarter of the distance to say Liverpool, Manchester or Leeds should also be included along with a route that goes to a different country (Ireland) then fair play.

To be fair - you didn’t use the word “domestic” anywhere that I can see. Maybe you did, and you can correct me.

But It seemed to me as if you were talking about busiest routes in general.

Dublin-London Airports (LON) is accepted within the industry as a route in itself for comparison purposes, no matter what you seem to think.

As someone who lives in that different country, I think that people here would be rather amazed if someone tried to convince them that Stansted or Luton aren’t considered as flying to London.

 

[fowler9]

To be fair - you didn’t use the word “domestic” anywhere that I can see. Maybe you did, and you can correct me.

But It seemed to me as if you were talking about busiest routes in general.

Dublin-London Airports (LON) is accepted within the industry as a route in itself for comparison purposes, no matter what you seem to think.

As someone who lives in that different country, I think that people here would be rather amazed if someone tried to convince them that Stansted or Luton aren’t considered as flying to London.

Apologies, I was thinking of busiest domestic routes. I still don't think of Stansted or Luton as being London airports any more than I think of Katowice as being Krakow.

 

[berneyarms]

Apologies, I was thinking of busiest domestic routes. I still don't think of Stansted or Luton as being London airports any more than I think of Katowice as being Krakow.

Well I think you’d find yourself in a very small minority on that one, being honest about it.

 

[fowler9]

Well I think you’d find yourself in a very small minority on that one, being honest about it.

Fine. What are your thoughts about the busiest domestic route. Was El Prat to Barajas as a domestic route busier than everywhere near London to Dublin which wasn't domestic.

 

[berneyarms]

Fine. What are your thoughts about the busiest domestic route. Was El Prat to Barajas as a domestic route busier than everywhere near London to Dublin which wasn't domestic.

That I don’t know, but I suspect that São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro would have given it a run for its money for some considerable time.

 

[atillathehunn]

The domestic point was me way earlier. I thought it was interesting to note that the busiest routes in the world were domestic until quite far down the list (position 9 by the wikipedia list).

Then the conversation went somewhere else.

I didn't come up with the 560 per week list, Baldrick did via Wikipedia. As we were talking about daily flights I assumed even distribution of 80 flights per day. This was 2010 figures. In 2012 (latest figure they cite) it's 380 per week.

I can't find old data. The only link I can find is this one, which is a discussion on a forum of a published piece on the busiest air routes in the world by flight number. Madrid - Barcelona is evidently on the list judging by the discussion, though it's not clear what position it is in.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418799

 

[jopsuk]

Apparently American Airlines have encountered a bug in the roster system used to plan annual leave for pilots.

Discovered too late.

Affecting specifically Christmas week.

They're currently offering pilots 1.5x what they would normally get for shifts during that period in an effort to fix this. I reckon they'll have to go higher.

 

[atillathehunn]

Wonder if they use the same software as Ryanair....
This is going to get expensive very fast. Is there an equivalent to EC/261 in the states?

 

[AlterEgo]

Wonder if they use the same software as Ryanair....
This is going to get expensive very fast. Is there an equivalent to EC/261 in the states?

Not really, no. It is a woeful country for consumer protection.

An airline which will remain nameless cancelled a flight on me which rendered my trip worthless. The only recourse was a refund, and they would not pay for my overnight hotel stay. Luckily I had insurance.

 

[atillathehunn]

Interesting, I'm sure American are very glad. Though of course they are on the hook for flights departing from the EU in this case.

The EC/261 has been pretty damn effective legislation, and the courts generally in the passenger's favour. It was case law, I believe, which brought mechanical problems out of the column of external events beyond an airline's control into eligible payment criteria. I believe it was Jet2 against whom the case was settled.

And interesting again that it's become a selling point for European airlines. Evidence of this being Turkish Airlines voluntarily binding themselves to the legislation.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I plan to stop drinking and eat healthier in 2018, and both have about as much chance of happening as these flights.

Haha.

It'll be interesting. We used to say the same about Southend. Stobart Air already use the airfield. But they've been saying "next year" for at least the last 3-4 years, so...

I'd use it if the price was right.

 

[atillathehunn]

There's a chance that the Ireland flights will work better than London. The WCML has things pretty well sown up for London IMO.
Hourly service with a few airports thrown in.

Completely useless for me as I would have to travel past two airports and travel in the wrong direction to go anywhere. I might use it once for the novelty.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Next trip booked. Didn't do Mexico because of Zika, so Abu Dhabi on Etihad it is.

I'll be interested to compare their economy to Emirates, which was really good, even on a 100% load 777. The 2-seats on the A330 might just swing it yet mind...

 

[Tetchytyke]

There's a chance that the Ireland flights will work better than London. The WCML has things pretty well sown up for London IMO.

London depends on timings, prices and where they fly to. It's still four hours from Carlisle to Euston.

But I agree, Dublin is the one that will probably make the most sense. Stobart do well out of Newcastle and there's a strong Irish link from Cumbria and Dumfriesshire.

 

[fowler9]

Next trip booked. Didn't do Mexico because of Zika, so Abu Dhabi on Etihad it is.

I'll be interested to compare their economy to Emirates, which was really good, even on a 100% load 777. The 2-seats on the A330 might just swing it yet mind...

You would have to have a really bad flight for the 2 seats on an A330 or A340 not to be better.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You would have to have a really bad flight for the 2 seats on an A330 or A340 not to be better.

True, 10-abreast on a full 777 to Sri Lanka wasn't the most spacious, I wouldn't have wanted it to be much longer than the 4 hours it was. Crew were fantastic, though.

I still judge economy by the booze though

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Took an Easyjet to Marrakech from Mancester last week, the orange and black seats, are they new? Amazing how much space was saved under the seats by not having a recliner, hopefully this catches on for all short haul routes. More space and no annoying reclining people on daytime flights.

 

[atillathehunn]

London depends on timings, prices and where they fly to. It's still four hours from Carlisle to Euston.

But I agree, Dublin is the one that will probably make the most sense. Stobart do well out of Newcastle and there's a strong Irish link from Cumbria and Dumfriesshire.

It will surely go to Southend? Or quite possibly City, though it would be an additional expense. Stobart Air has their base at SEN. Gatwick is too busy and getting a ATR-42 slot at LHR... keep laughing. If there's still a lot of military traffic at Longtown? Might sway the flight to City? Though actually during my days riding the rails between Edinburgh and King's Cross I overheard a lot of military traffic travelling all the way from Edinburgh to the Big Smoke - I would imagine they have pretty tight rules on travel expenses these days.

Good you booked somewhere! Friends of mine are in Abu Dhabi at the moment - they seem to enjoy it. Are you on the night flight both ways? The seating arrangement should make things a little more pleasant. A full 10 abrest 777 sounds like a nightmare. Though I had a 99% full 787 back to Manchester recently and it was absolute hell. On the way out it was 99% empty and that made the poor man's flat bed extremely pleasant.

Tim: yes the seats are new, though within the last 2 years, so stretching new a little bit. I first had them on flights to Amsterdam and Iceland in 2015.

Judging by booze, BA are in the sin bin. I was offered one alcoholic drink from LHR-NBO. Both Rwandair and Ethiopian offered fullsize drinks on even their regional flights. In fact, it's hard to find a regional flight around here without both a hot meal and a full drinks service. The hop from Kigali to Entebbe is 45 minutes and they always do food and drink. Nairobi - Entebbe likewise is just shy of an hour and I always walk off the plane better lubricated than I get on.

 

[atillathehunn]

Manchester Airport Group have sold Bournemouth airport.

Virgin look to be having a lot of trouble with their 787 fleet. A friend messaged me to say something had changed in their Virgin Atlantic booking so I helped investigate what. It seems the A330s which normally to the runs out of Manchester have been requisitioned by London and Manchester seems to be getting a combination of leased A330s (not sure from who, do Titan have any?) and Delta 767s. This resulted in her seat being changed and hence the confusion on her part.

 

[atillathehunn]

They're dropping like flies.

British Airways is closing OpenSkies, their boutique semi-business class airline which operates between New York and Paris (Orly).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ris-as-second-base-for-low-cost-airline-level

The gates and equipment (not quite sure how you give someone a gate - maybe they mean slots) will be given to Level, thus confirming Paris as Level's next base after Barcelona. They will offer flights to the US and the Caribbean.