Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Clansman]

Was booked on the Southbound Aberdeen tomorrow as well...never get a lie in but always get the cancellations. Just my luck I guess.

 

[Scotrail84]

Was booked on the Southbound Aberdeen tomorrow as well...never get a lie in but always get the cancellations. Just my luck I guess.

The sets were supposed to be coming up empty, looks like they've changed the plans again.

 

[Scotrail84]

The Virgin isn’t a special, it’s VSTP due to all VT and TPE cancelled Preston-Glasgow both ways, quite a few capped at Carlisle so causing a Jam, so presume they are just getting sets back up to Glasgow etc. To try get things running again ASAP.

Mate, in the railway we call them specials, its quicker that spurting out VSTP.

 

[Scotrail84]

1S26, 264L into Glasgow Plat 11 with 86101 at 1142. Full length as 1B26 portion was cancelled.

Aye dont I know it, as a general rule of thumb B26 will be caped if the service is running 2hrs plus late.

 

[Qwerty133]

Cancelling tomorrow nights southbound at this point is a bit of a piss take to be honest. How do they know what the conditions will be like in 36 hours?

 

[gcmozart]

The sleeper.scot website says "guests" will get an automatic refund or can claim delay/repay if booked through a 3rd party, why can't they be given the option of transferring the ticket to another service if that is their preference.

 

[Mag_seven]

1M16 now in Carlisle - presumably going to be caped and then move the stock south when they can?

5M16 12.24 Carlisle-Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O50081/2017/12/07/advanced

 

[TimboM]

Cancelling tomorrow nights southbound at this point is a bit of a **** take to be honest. How do they know what the conditions will be like in 36 hours?

I suspect it's much more to do with the severe weather last night and the fact 5M16 (the 1M16 stock) will not reach Wembley until approximately 6pm this evening. That makes it impossible for it to be serviced/cleaned etc. and turned round for either of the services tonight. Added to that are issues with staff hours - there's a good chance that those working 1M16 were heavily delayed getting to where they should be tonight (presumably London) and also wouldn't have the required rest they must have per the various regulations etc.

Consequently, it was really last night's severe weather that's lead to the northbound Highlander cancellation tonight - and as nothing will be going north tonight that unfortunately means there won't be anything coming South tomorrow night either.

As to why the Highlander has been cancelled vs the Lowlander, I expect some of it will be to do with loadings, but also the Highlander will be more susceptible to the bad weather on balance, so makes sense that if one service has to be cancelled then it's the one that has the higher chance of being disrupted.

I also expect that - depending on loadings tonight - they'll try and get passengers who still want to travel via the Sleeper on to the Lowlander and arrange onward transport from Glasgow/Edinburgh (and vice versa tomorrow night).

Not at all ideal for passengers expecting to travel on 1S25 tonight or 1M16 tomorrow night, but with the stock getting to Wembley about 7 hours after it should've done, there isn't really another feasible option.

 

[TimboM]

You know 1M16 (aka 5M16) is a bit late when you're trying to film it in the fading light... the following evening!

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

I suspect it's much more to do with the severe weather last night and the fact 5M16 (the 1M16 stock) will not reach Wembley until approximately 6pm this evening. That makes it impossible for it to be serviced/cleaned etc. and turned round for either of the services tonight. Added to that are issues with staff hours - there's a good chance that those working 1M16 were heavily delayed getting to where they should be tonight (presumably London) and also wouldn't have the required rest they must have per the various regulations etc.

Consequently, it was really last night's severe weather that's lead to the northbound Highlander cancellation tonight - and as nothing will be going north tonight that unfortunately means there won't be anything coming South tomorrow night either.

As to why the Highlander has been cancelled vs the Lowlander, I expect some of it will be to do with loadings, but also the Highlander will be more susceptible to the bad weather on balance, so makes sense that if one service has to be cancelled then it's the one that has the higher chance of being disrupted.

I also expect that - depending on loadings tonight - they'll try and get passengers who still want to travel via the Sleeper on to the Lowlander and arrange onward transport from Glasgow/Edinburgh (and vice versa tomorrow night).

Not at all ideal for passengers expecting to travel on 1S25 tonight or 1M16 tomorrow night, but with the stock getting to Wembley about 7 hours after it should've done, there isn't really another feasible option.

So the stock was in Carlisle. They took it all the way to Wembley, so that it could be serviced, but not in enough time to form the northbound service tonight, which means they then have to cancel the southbound the following night. I might be daft, but couldn't they have just taken it ECS north from Carlisle tonight using the booked crews, and therefore only had to cancel one journey not a round-trip? And the sleeping car crews can't count a journey to Wembley in a train fully equipped with beds as being a rest break?

 

[TimboM]

So the stock was in Carlisle. They took it all the way to Wembley, so that it could be serviced, but not in enough time to form the northbound service tonight, which means they then have to cancel the southbound the following night. I might be daft, but couldn't they have just taken it ECS north from Carlisle tonight using the booked crews, and therefore only had to cancel one journey not a round-trip? And the sleeping car crews can't count a journey to Wembley in a train fully equipped with beds as being a rest break?

You'd have to take the train to Polmadie if I understand your suggestion correctly - with it arriving most likely just as the team who clean/service/prep the Lowlander rake that's supposed to be there having just clocked off - and who are resourced to deal with just the one 16-coach rake.

You'd then somehow need to find extra people to work several hours to clean/service the ECS (not going to happen at short notice); then sort locos / drivers etc. to run the Load 16 rake out to Edinburgh (bearing in mind the Lowlander is running tonight, so the 5C11 Polmadie-Waverley path/loco/driver is already being used).
You'd then split an empty train up and work it North, possibly to come a cropper in yet more extreme weather conditions and end up with more delays/cancellations/part-rakes out of position etc.

I don't know the ins and out of the staffing so someone else can shed further light on that I expect, however I think they may actually detrain too and take the day trains down to London (or wherever). Either way, I'm fairly sure staying on the train wouldn't count as a rest period - also they couldn't be expected to sleep in used berths and they're may not have been sufficient unused ones for them anyway. One way or another they were in Carlisle an hour or so after they should have finished their (already long) shift in London.

All the staff involved including GB Sleeper Control will have had a very testing time last night - they do repeatedly do their upmost to get the beds from A to B, but sometimes the only sensible/feasible option is to get the stock, locos, staff etc. back to where they should be and start again.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

You'd have to take the train to Polmadie if I understand your suggestion correctly - with it arriving most likely just as the team who clean/service/prep the Lowlander rake that's supposed to be there having just clocked off - and who are resourced to deal with just the one 16-coach rake.

You'd then somehow need to find extra people to work several hours to clean/service the ECS (not going to happen at short notice); then sort locos / drivers etc. to run the Load 16 rake out to Edinburgh (bearing in mind the Lowlander is running tonight, so the 5C11 Polmadie-Waverley path/loco/driver is already being used).
You'd then split an empty train up and work it North, possibly to come a cropper in yet more extreme weather conditions and end up with more delays/cancellations/part-rakes out of position etc.

I don't know the ins and out of the staffing so someone else can shed further light on that I expect, however I think they may actually detrain too and take the day trains down to London (or wherever). Either way, I'm fairly sure staying on the train wouldn't count as a rest period - also they couldn't be expected to sleep in used berths and they're may not have been sufficient unused ones for them anyway. One way or another they were in Carlisle an hour or so after they should have finished their (already long) shift in London.

All the staff involved including GB Sleeper Control will have had a very testing time last night - they do repeatedly do their upmost to get the beds from A to B, but sometimes the only sensible/feasible option is to get the stock, locos, staff etc. back to where they should be and start again.

What you say may well be right, just seemed odd to take it all that way south only to then leave it there missing a whole round trip. The thought wasn’t to service it at Polmadie, just leave it at Carlisle until it’s scheduled departure time tonight then use the already rostered crews to get it North then serviced at Aberdeen, etc ready for scheduled southbound journeys thereby only inconveniencing one set of passengers not two?

As you say there are presumably good reasons for what they did because they do a grand job keeping things moving in difficult circumstances.

 

[DarloRich]

5M16 12.24 Carlisle-Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O50081/2017/12/07/advanced

caused some very confused looks as it rumbled through Bletchley at 1730: Was that train very late or very early asked one wag

 

[Mag_seven]

5M16 12.24 Carlisle-Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O50081/2017/12/07/advanced

5M16 has reversed at Kilburn Loop (going from there to Wembley) so won't be going into Euston.

 

[fishquinn]

Hi all,

Asking on behalf of a friend; what was the coaching stock on 5M16 today?

Many thanks,

FQ.

 

[MylesHSG]

You'd have to take the train to Polmadie if I understand your suggestion correctly - with it arriving most likely just as the team who clean/service/prep the Lowlander rake that's supposed to be there having just clocked off - and who are resourced to deal with just the one 16-coach rake.

You'd then somehow need to find extra people to work several hours to clean/service the ECS (not going to happen at short notice); then sort locos / drivers etc. to run the Load 16 rake out to Edinburgh (bearing in mind the Lowlander is running tonight, so the 5C11 Polmadie-Waverley path/loco/driver is already being used).
You'd then split an empty train up and work it North, possibly to come a cropper in yet more extreme weather conditions and end up with more delays/cancellations/part-rakes out of position etc.

I don't know the ins and out of the staffing so someone else can shed further light on that I expect, however I think they may actually detrain too and take the day trains down to London (or wherever). Either way, I'm fairly sure staying on the train wouldn't count as a rest period - also they couldn't be expected to sleep in used berths and they're may not have been sufficient unused ones for them anyway. One way or another they were in Carlisle an hour or so after they should have finished their (already long) shift in London.

All the staff involved including GB Sleeper Control will have had a very testing time last night - they do repeatedly do their upmost to get the beds from A to B, but sometimes the only sensible/feasible option is to get the stock, locos, staff etc. back to where they should be and start again.

Here here, its almost as if people think train operators don't want to run trains. I would not have wanted to be in CS control last night! Interestingly they didn't wait for Willesden Carriage Shed North to open at 20:00 to bring 5M16 in to Wembley depot

 

[LeylandLen]

canx.

 

[Far north 37]

You know 1M16 (aka 5M16) is a bit late when you're trying to film it in the fading light... the following evening!

Nice video tim what loco was on the front there.

 

[ScottDarg]

Nice video tim what loco was on the front there.

92018 I'm sure

 

[Far north 37]

92018 I'm sure

Ah ok thanks couldnt quite make it out on the video.

 

[TimboM]

Nice video tim what loco was on the front there.

Thanks

92018 I'm sure

Aye

 

[D5645]

I suspect it's much more to do with the severe weather last night and the fact 5M16 (the 1M16 stock) will not reach Wembley until approximately 6pm this evening. That makes it impossible for it to be serviced/cleaned etc. and turned round for either of the services tonight. Added to that are issues with staff hours - there's a good chance that those working 1M16 were heavily delayed getting to where they should be tonight (presumably London) and also wouldn't have the required rest they must have per the various regulations etc.

Consequently, it was really last night's severe weather that's lead to the northbound Highlander cancellation tonight - and as nothing will be going north tonight that unfortunately means there won't be anything coming South tomorrow night either.

As to why the Highlander has been cancelled vs the Lowlander, I expect some of it will be to do with loadings, but also the Highlander will be more susceptible to the bad weather on balance, so makes sense that if one service has to be cancelled then it's the one that has the higher chance of being disrupted.

I also expect that - depending on loadings tonight - they'll try and get passengers who still want to travel via the Sleeper on to the Lowlander and arrange onward transport from Glasgow/Edinburgh (and vice versa tomorrow night).

Not at all ideal for passengers expecting to travel on 1S25 tonight or 1M16 tomorrow night, but with the stock getting to Wembley about 7 hours after it should've done, there isn't really another feasible option.

We were booked on 1S25 tonight and got offered nothing whatsoever. We were told to make our own arrangements.

Appalling customer service.

 

[Scotrail84]

So the stock was in Carlisle. They took it all the way to Wembley, so that it could be serviced, but not in enough time to form the northbound service tonight, which means they then have to cancel the southbound the following night. I might be daft, but couldn't they have just taken it ECS north from Carlisle tonight using the booked crews, and therefore only had to cancel one journey not a round-trip? And the sleeping car crews can't count a journey to Wembley in a train fully equipped with beds as being a rest break?

The booked crew was a London crew on their way home, so no they couldn't have done that. Some of the crew had been on duty since 1900 last night! The crew would have to get a hotel room in Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Inverness and Ft William at short notice. They wouldn't have any clean clothes, Some of the crew would have going on to rest days and/or doubling out in London. Keeping them up here would involve a lie over payment plus it keeps them away an additional night from their families. What about those who have kids etc?

CS are right cancel it, the weather up in Scotland is not nice and is expected to get worse Friday night into Saturday around northern england and Scotland.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but telling people to naff off and sort themselves out isn't really on.

 

[Scotrail84]

Yes, but telling people to naff off and sort themselves out isn't really on.

When did I say that like?

 

[TimboM]

When did I say that like?

Think @Bletchleyite is referring to the post above yours...

 

[Scotrail84]

Cancelling tomorrow nights southbound at this point is a bit of a **** take to be honest. How do they know what the conditions will be like in 36 hours?

You know nothing, find out facts before slating the cancellation of the service.

 

[Scotrail84]

Think @Bletchleyite is referring to the post above yours...

Ah, ok.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Think @Bletchleyite is referring to the post above yours...

Yep, that'll teach me to quote properly, @Scotrail84 got his post in as I was doing mine

 

[Scotrail84]

You'd have to take the train to Polmadie if I understand your suggestion correctly - with it arriving most likely just as the team who clean/service/prep the Lowlander rake that's supposed to be there having just clocked off - and who are resourced to deal with just the one 16-coach rake.

You'd then somehow need to find extra people to work several hours to clean/service the ECS (not going to happen at short notice); then sort locos / drivers etc. to run the Load 16 rake out to Edinburgh (bearing in mind the Lowlander is running tonight, so the 5C11 Polmadie-Waverley path/loco/driver is already being used).
You'd then split an empty train up and work it North, possibly to come a cropper in yet more extreme weather conditions and end up with more delays/cancellations/part-rakes out of position etc.

I don't know the ins and out of the staffing so someone else can shed further light on that I expect, however I think they may actually detrain too and take the day trains down to London (or wherever). Either way, I'm fairly sure staying on the train wouldn't count as a rest period - also they couldn't be expected to sleep in used berths and they're may not have been sufficient unused ones for them anyway. One way or another they were in Carlisle an hour or so after they should have finished their (already long) shift in London.

All the staff involved including GB Sleeper Control will have had a very testing time last night - they do repeatedly do their upmost to get the beds from A to B, but sometimes the only sensible/feasible option is to get the stock, locos, staff etc. back to where they should be and start again.

It absolutely would not count as a rest period. The would still be on whats called continuous duty and they need 12hrs rest between turns at their home depots, local a special agreements exist at foreign depots.

I know you're not suggesting that staff sleep on the train as a rest period but anyone who does suggest may will to try it themselves in the same clothes for 24hrs plus.