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Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

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F Great Eastern

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There was a small section of 2+2 with tables on the mockup, just behind the cab. This could be first class, or maybe just a better seating area for those who care enough.

View attachment 40201

That is different from the layout I have previously seen.

Have they reduced the number of seats to allow for that or have they crammed in an extra row in elsewhere to compensate for the row that has been lost there?
 

F Great Eastern

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An Aventra would be quite the task! :P

Not one of my models, it's from here: https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/newtrains/360tour

You can see all three designs, and they look quite classy. :)

I will presume there will be some changes at least to the FLIRT because of the serious design flaw that was previously discussed in the thread with the PIS system that are facing each other on the inside vestibule walls rather than facing the two seating areas.
 

delticdave

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The second unit is also like sardines just a bit later in the journey. I agree though that the front unit is busier on departure at colchester. I normally sit in the quiet coach when doing a change like that at Colchester to give me time to reach the back unit and there is better chance of a seat there but honestly at Witham it's pretty much crowded everywhere people sitting on bulkheads etc.
If you want to get from Norwich to Stratford but the IC doesn't stop there, just change trains at Liv. St, it's only 7/8 minutes back to Stratford......
 

Alfie1014

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That is different from the layout I have previously seen.

Have they reduced the number of seats to allow for that or have they crammed in an extra row in elsewhere to compensate for the row that has been lost there?

No I think it’s the same, the seating plans circulated show a single longitudinal seat behind the cab.

All the hints suggest there will be no First Class which combined with the obligation in the SouthEastern franchise prospectus that First Class is to be removed within 18 months after franchise commencement, just reinforces the view that for other than long distances a single class will be the norm. Which I fond somewhat ironic as it’s being imposed by a allegedly free market espousing Government!

I’m not sure about carpeting throughout though, it will need to be kept clean to avoid looking grubby very quickly.
 

Wivenswold

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It will be relatively easier to keep clean as there are gaps under the seats (in theory), but one would hope they will come with a bespoke carpet cleaning machine otherwise they're going to get pretty pongy very soon.
 

jopsuk

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All the hints suggest there will be no First Class
Hints? I was at Bombardier at the invitation of Greater Anglia, with the heads of the GA new fleet team, who in no uncertain words said that there is no first class, just a couple of weeks ago. It's in the franchise agreement.
 

dp21

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It may well be possible that the amount of space which is available it wouldn't be possible to fit any more than 4 seats on each side so they thought may as well put a table in?

Just an idea rather than it being considered for any 1st class which, as has been described above and I have had confirmed to me also, will not be coming to the 720s.
 

Wivenswold

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I appreciate that standard only was in the franchise agreement and the publicity and the final outcome too. A few highly reliable sources were suggesting that there was some further thought about it prior to the design lock-down. I know of a few commuters who raised it in the consultation process so it was only natural that it should have been discussed further.
 

lordbusiness

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Agree about the 0830 NRW- LST. Horrible train avoid whenever possible. I call it the Saga express with many taking advantage of Senior Railcards. Some of the off peak LST- NRW (1530/1600/1630) are getting just as bad.
Truth is the GEML is always going to struggle with capacity with the rate of exodus from London. We may enjoy a few years of slightly less crowding but the way houses are going up in COL, CHM and other towns along the route (including NRW) it won't last long.
 

samuelmorris

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I had in my diary that there was supposed to be a demo at Liverpool Street on the 8th, but I didn't see any sign of it passing through?
 

Alfie1014

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I appreciate that standard only was in the franchise agreement and the publicity and the final outcome too. A few highly reliable sources were suggesting that there was some further thought about it prior to the design lock-down. I know of a few commuters who raised it in the consultation process so it was only natural that it should have been discussed further.

I agree that this boat seems to have sailed but I still find it an illogical commercial decision, although acknowledge that the strings are being pulled by the DfT. It seems somewhat bizarre to penalise some your most valuable customers, (who pay many thousands of pounds a year for season tickets) and offer them the only one option of a seat in trains that will mostly be 2+3 seating which at many on the stations closer to London such as Chelmsford, Ingatestone, Shenfield. The choice for these in morning peak will probably be a middle seat, tip up seat or standing in the vestibule, a bit of come down from a more spacious seat in First even though they are not 'policed' as well as they could be. A missed opportunity I think, especially if revenue continues to soften, every pound will count.

I also see that RMT have thrown their hat into the ring on the subject on SWR, though with very confused messages about on the one hand seats for toffs, (in the new all standard class Aventras!), whilst at the same time bemoaning the fact that pregnant women with baby on board badges will be deprived of an upgrade if First goes?

All in all the issue of First Class has become horribly confused across the network, with too much meddling and interference from the centre and you know who I mean by that!
 

delticdave

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Agree about the 0830 NRW- LST. Horrible train avoid whenever possible. I call it the Saga express with many taking advantage of Senior Railcards. Some of the off peak LST- NRW (1530/1600/1630) are getting just as bad.
Truth is the GEML is always going to struggle with capacity with the rate of exodus from London. We may enjoy a few years of slightly less crowding but the way houses are going up in COL, CHM and other towns along the route (including NRW) it won't last long.
What are you on about?
I can't use my senior railcard that early in the morning!
 

306024

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Regarding the 08.30 Norwich to Liverpool St, it’s the first off peak Norwich train, arriving in Liverpool St after 10.00. From Monday 11/12/17 The 08.48 from Ipswich no longer runs as a slow train attaching to a Colchester Town to Liverpool St service at Colchester, but simply calls Manningtree, Colchester, Stratford and Liverpool St arriving 10.10. For some strange reason for the first week of operation it still departs at 08.48, but from the following Monday 18/12/17 it departs Ipswich at 08.58, still arriving at 10.10. This is to tempt Ipswich, Manningtree and Colchester folks away from the 08.30 from Norwich.

Anyway back on the first class debate, it would be interesting to be party to the finances behind the decision. Capacity is the reason given, which on some trains is true, but there a huge uplift in capacity overall on the GEML. In the very long term, with continuous commuter housing being built, it may be the right decision, but in the short term there will be some very upset first class passengers.

With fewer trains with first class available at Manningtree and Colchester in particular, it will be a dilema whether to buy a first class season ticket in the first place, as the chances of getting a first class seat in the morning peak are reduced.
 

eastdyke

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Regarding the 08.30 Norwich to Liverpool St, it’s the first off peak Norwich train, arriving in Liverpool St after 10.00. From Monday 11/12/17 The 08.48 from Ipswich no longer runs as a slow train attaching to a Colchester Town to Liverpool St service at Colchester, but simply calls Manningtree, Colchester, Stratford and Liverpool St arriving 10.10. For some strange reason for the first week of operation it still departs at 08.48, but from the following Monday 18/12/17 it departs Ipswich at 08.58, still arriving at 10.10. This is to tempt Ipswich, Manningtree and Colchester folks away from the 08.30 from Norwich.

Anyway back on the first class debate, it would be interesting to be party to the finances behind the decision. Capacity is the reason given, which on some trains is true, but there a huge uplift in capacity overall on the GEML. In the very long term, with continuous commuter housing being built, it may be the right decision, but in the short term there will be some very upset first class passengers.

With fewer trains with first class available at Manningtree and Colchester in particular, it will be a dilema whether to buy a first class season ticket in the first place, as the chances of getting a first class seat in the morning peak are reduced.
Assuming AVENTRAs are built without 1st it will be 'interesting' to see the reaction when one turns up from Norwich vice a FLIRT <D
 

47802

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Assuming AVENTRAs are built without 1st it will be 'interesting' to see the reaction when one turns up from Norwich vice a FLIRT <D

Personally I think the elimination of 1st class is long overdue and should only be retained on the primary intercity routes. Maybe there might be an argument for retaining it on the Stansted's as it would also make substituting a Stansted and Norwich flirt on each route easier, but overall I think its time 1st class went from London Commuter routes as has been the case on many regional routes for years.
 

jopsuk

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There's no debate, there's no "if" etc- the only units being built with 1st class are the 10 Norwich Intercity FLIRTs- the Stansted FLIRTs will be Standard only, the rural bi-mode FLIRTs will be standard only, the entire Aventra fleet will be Standard only. The FLIRT specification is fully locked down, the Aventra more or less (the bike space configuration was the last item). The only units with a yellow stripe above the windows will be the Norwich ones. No amount of "maybes" or "they shoulds" on an internet forum is changing that!

(Blue stripe above the wheelchair accessible section, green stripe above the bike area, if I recall correctly from the presentations. But yes, yellow above first, as it should be)
 

class387

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There's no debate, there's no "if" etc- the only units being built with 1st class are the 10 Norwich Intercity FLIRTs- the Stansted FLIRTs will be Standard only, the rural bi-mode FLIRTs will be standard only, the entire Aventra fleet will be Standard only. The FLIRT specification is fully locked down, the Aventra more or less (the bike space configuration was the last item). The only units with a yellow stripe above the windows will be the Norwich ones. No amount of "maybes" or "they shoulds" on an internet forum is changing that!

(Blue stripe above the wheelchair accessible section, green stripe above the bike area, if I recall correctly from the presentations. But yes, yellow above first, as it should be)
Does the 'locked down' specification on the Flirts include the PIS?
 

F Great Eastern

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Does the 'locked down' specification on the Flirts include the PIS?

Lets hope not because if it is nobody sitting down will be able to see them in their present location which is a pretty unbelievable oversight!

If that makes it through to production, it would make you seriously question the competence of the people in charge of the design of the trains.

Honestly though, I reckon it was a rendering mistake rather than intentional.
 
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