Midland Mainline timetable changes May 2018

[g22]

May 2018 Changes for EMT MML services have started to appear on Open Train Times. Presumably still subject to change.

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[MG11]

From a quick check of open train times it appears that the service pattern FROM St Pancras for EMT is as follows...

xx02 Sheffield (fast)
xx05 Nottingham (stopper)
xx31 Sheffield (semi fast)
xx34 Nottingham (semi fast)
xx47 Corby (stopper)

Not checked peak hours or southbound times yet...

So it could be XX:33 SHF-STP
and XX:53 SHF-STP, possibly the semis not being affected, given their flexibility at the SHF end.

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[MichaelAMW]

I see that the 6 departures an hour from East Midlands Parkway will be squeezed into an even tighter window, down from 22 mins to 18 mins (Approx - it varies slightly between hours). The London trains in each direction will still only be about 10 mins apart.

 

[tbtc]

re the Bedford - Kettering flow - whilst I appreciate the problems with long distance services, is there anything to be said for at least continuing to stop the Corby services at Bedford during rush hour? They aren't packed to the rafters are they?

May 2018 Changes for EMT MML services have started to appear on Open Train Times. Presumably still subject to change.

Cheers. I'll have a look.

Hopefully they'll sort out the nonsense at Sheffield, where the northbound semi doesn't get into Midland in sufficient time to head south in a hurry... e.g.

08:26 St Pancras
10:40 Sheffield

11:08 - 11:41 ECS run onto the Darnall line, where the 222 waits/ reverses and waits for a platform at Midland

11:49 Sheffield
13:57 St Pancras

...i.e. a nine minute turnaround isn't long enough for the 10:40 arrival to become the 10:49 departure, so EMT are essentially wasting a five coach 125mph train every hour because they can't get it to Sheffield fast enough. Presumably that's what the idea of dropping the EM Parkway stop from the semi (with the fast service picking it up) will give it sufficient turnaround time (saving a couple of minutes each way).

 

[cactustwirly]

I notice that the fast (HST diagram) and slow (222 diagram) Nottinghams have effectively swapped paths in the down, but not in the up.

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[Hadders]

From what I can make out...

There are no southbound EMT service calling at Bedford from 0536 through to 1013, and no northbound services 1624 through to 2024...

I posted the off peak north bound service a few posts back...
Southbound off peak services are...

xx12 ex Nottingham (stopper)
xx00 ex Sheffield (semi fast)
xx45 ex Nottingham (semi fast)
xx29 ex Sheffield (fast but around 8-10 minutes slower south of Leicester)
xx41 ex Corby (stopper)

Kettering and Wellingborough will see 2 trains an hour to London just 10 minutes apart and from London 18 minutes apart...

An almost 5 hour gap at Bedford between EMT services in the morning and a 4 hour gap in the evening.

Disgraceful.

 

[Senex]

From what I can make out...

There are no southbound EMT service calling at Bedford from 0536 through to 1013, and no northbound services 1624 through to 2024...

I posted the off peak north bound service a few posts back...
Southbound off peak services are...

xx12 ex Nottingham (stopper)
xx00 ex Sheffield (semi fast)
xx45 ex Nottingham (semi fast)
xx29 ex Sheffield (fast but around 8-10 minutes slower south of Leicester)
xx41 ex Corby (stopper)

Kettering and Wellingborough will see 2 trains an hour to London just 10 minutes apart and from London 18 minutes apart...

So the substantial expenditure at Market Harborough and Derby will bring time savings that will simply offset in part decelerations being made for the benefit of London commuters and their Thameslink services. Another clear example of the way in which the London-orientated and -based mind of DfT works.

 

[A0wen]

So the substantial expenditure at Market Harborough and Derby will bring time savings that will simply offset in part decelerations being made for the benefit of London commuters and their Thameslink services. Another clear example of the way in which the London-orientated and -based mind of DfT works.

I think the decelerations are because of the work taking place beyond Bedford i.e. electrification to Corby. That's what the 2018 timetable is all about. If anything the journey times in the London area have been accelerated by upgrading to 125mph and deletion of Luton and Bedford stops.

 

[radamfi]

An almost 5 hour gap at Bedford between EMT services in the morning and a 4 hour gap in the evening.

Disgraceful.

Presumably it will be permitted to double back at Luton during those times.

 

[louis97]

I think the decelerations are because of the work taking place beyond Bedford i.e. electrification to Corby. That's what the 2018 timetable is all about. If anything the journey times in the London area have been accelerated by upgrading to 125mph and deletion of Luton and Bedford stops.

The deletion of the Luton and Bedford stops does not really speed up journey times in the London direction. Most trains in this direction in the morning peak now have pathing time (one train has at least 10 minutes of this) and arrive London at the same time.

 

[Hadders]

Presumably it will be permitted to double back at Luton during those times.

I doubt it. Passengers from/to the north will end up having to get the bus from Wellingborough with an increase in journey time of around an hour while passengers travelling to/from Bedford to London will have to endure Thameslink and their ironing board seats.

Apparently it’s considered progress...

 

[A0wen]

I doubt it. Passengers from/to the north will end up having to get the bus from Wellingborough with an increase in journey time of around an hour while passengers travelling to/from Bedford to London will have to endure Thameslink and their ironing board seats.

Apparently it’s considered progress...

And as you know, regular travellers to / from Bedford from the north are going to be well compensated with a 50% reduction in their season ticket price for the duration of the works.

On Bedford to London commuters, no sympathy whatsoever. It's no different to the stock used for London bound jounrneys from Northampton, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots or Huntingdon. And is most cases Bedford has *significantly* cheaper ticket prices.

 

[Hadders]

And as you know, regular travellers to / from Bedford from the north are going to be well compensated with a 50% reduction in their season ticket price for the duration of the works.

On Bedford to London commuters, no sympathy whatsoever. It's no different to the stock used for London bound jounrneys from Northampton, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots or Huntingdon. And is most cases Bedford has *significantly* cheaper ticket prices.

What about regular passengers who aren’t season ticket holders? Or even occasional passengers?

Class 350s from Northampton and 365s (that still operate the majority of services on GN and will continue to operate key services at peak times on the GN post Thameslink) offer a much better level of comfort than the 700s.

 

[AgentSmith]

Presumably it will be permitted to double back at Luton during those times.

Yes, permitted

 

[AgentSmith]

I doubt it. Passengers from/to the north will end up having to get the bus from Wellingborough with an increase in journey time of around an hour while passengers travelling to/from Bedford to London will have to endure Thameslink and their ironing board seats.

Apparently it’s considered progress...

Doubling back will be permitted

 

[AgentSmith]

...passengers travelling to/from Bedford to London will have to endure Thameslink and their ironing board seats.

...but this is for the GTR franchise to address though

 

[A0wen]

What about regular passengers who aren’t season ticket holders? Or even occasional passengers?

Class 350s from Northampton and 365s (that still operate the majority of services on GN and will continue to operate key services at peak times on the GN post Thameslink) offer a much better level of comfort than the 700s.

A good number of the 350s are 3+2 seated, not 2+2.

The future of the 365s is unconfirmed. They were meant to be leaving GTR.

 

[Hadders]

A good number of the 350s are 3+2 seated, not 2+2.

The future of the 365s is unconfirmed. They were meant to be leaving GTR.

At least 19 of the 365s are staying at GN. That’s always been the plan.

 

[43074]

From a quick check of open train times it appears that the service pattern FROM St Pancras for EMT is as follows...

xx02 Sheffield (fast)
xx05 Nottingham (stopper)
xx31 Sheffield (semi fast)
xx34 Nottingham (semi fast)
xx47 Corby (stopper)

Not checked peak hours or southbound times yet...

In other news most of the xx02 take 1 hr 59 or thereabouts (a minute or so faster in most cases), and the xx31 to Sheffield are 5 mins faster, mainly by removing pathing between Derby and Sheffield from what I can tell; that's some good news. Southbound Nottingham semi-fasts are two or three minutes faster, but the stopper is 5 mins slower or so. A very mixed picture; any benefits are outweighed by the losses so it's no surprise EMT aren't shouting from the rooftops about the changes.

 

[Hadders]

...but this is for the GTR franchise to address though

There should be train services from Bedford to/from the north. It’s not acceptable for services on a mainline inter-city route to be bustituted.

 

[adamedwards]

Curious to know what the contract peak stopping patterns are. Bedford to London is loosing EMT stops am but Bedford to the north will still have stops, so when? And in the evenings the reverse is true so some on going Leicester to Bedford will still have a train. But what times?

 

[AgentSmith]

Curious to know what the contract peak stopping patterns are. Bedford to London is loosing EMT stops am but Bedford to the north will still have stops, so when? And in the evenings the reverse is true so some on going Leicester to Bedford will still have a train. But what times?

All that is specified is 2tph.

 

[A0wen]

There should be train services from Bedford to/from the north. It’s not acceptable for services on a mainline inter-city route to be bustituted.

The services between the major cities on this Inter City route aren't being bustituted though - there is no bustitution to Leicester, Nottingham, Derby or Sheffield.

There is bustitution to one, relatively insignificant, town on the route.

There are a relatively low number of commuters to / from Bedford from the north - on the many times I've travelled on such services you can count on the fingers of one hand the number seeking to alight at Bedford, but the train goes from being busy to rammed as a result of Bedford commuters trying to use EMT services.

Bedford commuters have Thameslink services which offer comparable services to the GN services to Cambridge or Huntingdon or LNWs services to Northampton.

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[A0wen]

It's not just Bedford that sees a poorer service...

Wellingborough and Kettering see their half hourly off peak services to London change from roughly every 30 minutes both way to 2 trains 10 minutes apart to London, and 2 trains 18 minutes apart from London...

A lot of the Sheffield to St Pancras fast services are slowed down by around 8 minutes south of Leicester... The evening Master Cutler from St Pancras (1657) will become 1647 and some 13 minutes slower...

One hour during evening peak from St Pancras currently sees departures at 1730, 1745, 1757, 1800, 1815, 1825 & 1830... From May this will be 1734, 1747, 1750, 1805, 1819 & 1834... One less departure overall...

Whilst the removal of the peak time Luton and Bedford stops will reduce peak hours overcrowding, there's not a lot of good news for users of this line from May...

In the short term. When the works are done the Corby's will be every 30 mins, which should sort out the clockface issue.

 

[Hadders]

In the short term. When the works are done the Corby's will be every 30 mins, which should sort out the clockface issue.

As a matter of interest who actually gains anything from the proposed changes in May 2018?

My view is the changes should not take place until the Corby electrification works are done.

 

[AgentSmith]

It's not just Bedford that sees a poorer service...

One hour during evening peak from St Pancras currently sees departures at 1730, 1745, 1757, 1800, 1815, 1825 & 1830... From May this will be 1734, 1747, 1750, 1805, 1819 & 1834... One less departure overall...

The #tph is still maintained. The 1745 is the only scheduled use of the 6th path which inflates the current departure schedule, meaning a direct comparison doesn't quite work.