London Overground 378

[jopsuk]

It says they'll be Dual Voltage, so that makes them /2, yes?

 

[Edvid]

Didn't see that, but yes I imagine they'll be 378/2s.

 

[Dazz285]

In hindsight they should have ALL been dual voltage..

 

[Danielo]

Quite a few of them at the Willesden TMD days, but the LM service I'm on goes to fast for me to catch all their numbers. I think I saw 013 outside this morning, with a couple more in the shed.

 

[johnb]

In hindsight they should have ALL been dual voltage..

The track layout at H&I doesn't allow through-running onto the NLL proper, and the depot is in New Cross, so what use would AC be on the ELL units?

And if service patterns etc are ever changed, then the only things required to turn a 378/1 into a 378/2 will be a transformer and a pantograph (which there's already space for).

 

[mackenzie_blu]

The track layout at H&I doesn't allow through-running onto the NLL proper, and the depot is in New Cross, so what use would AC be on the ELL units?

And if service patterns etc are ever changed, then the only things required to turn a 378/1 into a 378/2 will be a transformer and a pantograph (which there's already space for).

Because the units would be better if they were one pool incase something happens. The simplier it is the less there is to go wrong.

 

[paul1609]

I'm told by someone that should know that the cost of converting some more of Southeatern's 375s to dual voltage was investigated last year and was found to be prohibitive. Apparently its much more work than simply adding a transformer and pantograph and many of the components used in the early electrostars are no longer in production
Apparently the work would take some months to carry out and the cost of having the train out of service means that it is unlikely that any conversions will ever be carried out.

 

[Dazz285]

The track layout at H&I doesn't allow through-running onto the NLL proper, and the depot is in New Cross, so what use would AC be on the ELL units?

And if service patterns etc are ever changed, then the only things required to turn a 378/1 into a 378/2 will be a transformer and a pantograph (which there's already space for).

Because the units would be better if they were one pool incase something happens. The simplier it is the less there is to go wrong.

In hindsight they should have ALL been dual voltage..

I'm told by someone that should know that the cost of converting some more of Southeatern's 375s to dual voltage was investigated last year and was found to be prohibitive. Apparently its much more work than simply adding a transformer and pantograph and many of the components used in the early electrostars are no longer in production
Apparently the work would take some months to carry out and the cost of having the train out of service means that it is unlikely that any conversions will ever be carried out.

Which was one of my reasons for suggesting that they should have been ALL dual voltage. If they had been they could have easily moved around the depots...

 

[johnb]

I'm told by someone that should know that the cost of converting some more of Southeatern's 375s to dual voltage was investigated last year and was found to be prohibitive. Apparently its much more work than simply adding a transformer and pantograph and many of the components used in the early electrostars are no longer in production
Apparently the work would take some months to carry out and the cost of having the train out of service means that it is unlikely that any conversions will ever be carried out.

Yes, the 375s are different from the 377s and 378s in that respect - Bombardier/Connex decided to save weight (=money) by moving some of the electronics from the motor coaches to the not-currently-but-possibly-panto coach, instead of the ballast weights that the 377s and 378s carry, hence shifting it all back round would be a serious effort.

All 377s and 378s *only* require a panto and a transformer.

 

[jopsuk]

All 377s and 378s *only* require a panto and a transformer.

What about the 377s that used to be 375s?

 

[MCR247]

They will probably be the same as 375s?

 

[thelem]

Why do they need ballast? Why not just have the coaches lighter and cheaper to run?

 

[90019]

I would guess it could be something to do with the centre of gravity of the coach, but I'm probably wrong.

 

[anthony263]

I have read that it is very likely that at least 2 of the class 378's might enter service on Monday, aparantly these are likely to be: 378005 & 378007 as they have completed the required milliage before being accepted for service and since a lot of staff have been trained on the new rolling stock.

I dont know what lines they are going to be used on first

 

[O L Leigh]

Sorry, but you've lost me on the issue of dual-voltage.

Surely all units that will see use on the NLL will need to be dual-voltage, so what's the score with the ELL? Also, will 4 car units ever be used on the NLL or are folk just talking about the possibility of cross-cover?

I expect the need for ballast weights has more to do with the spring and damper rates in the suspension than anything else. Having a coach that is operationally lighter than the design weight to meet a TOC's specification would require a different suspension set-up which is more expensive than just ballasting the vehicle to reach a pre-determined unladen weight. However, I can see why SET specified their Cl375's in the way they did, as it means the total unit weight is as low as possible and gives better point-to-point performance for what is ultimately a metro unit. I would have imagined that LOROL would have pulled the same trick if only their units were 5 cars in length too, but having 3 and 4 car units restricts the options when it comes to spreading the weight around.

O L Leigh

 

[jopsuk]

The ELL will be completely seperate from the NLL. All the NLL sets are being delivered as fully Dual Voltage 9as they need to be) three car sets, but TfL have put the order in for the extra carriages required to bring all the NLL sets up to four cars.

 

[poshbakerloo]

They'll just end up smelly and vandalised soon enough

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Why do they need ballast? Why not just have the coaches lighter and cheaper to run?

The braking software is designed for a certain weight for the whole train and its cheaper to make a car heavier with ballast than rewrite the software and the associated testing.

 

[313103]

Just to add that unit 378016 arrived at Willesden on late Friday night. That means the company have 5 delivered now 005, 007, 013, 015, 016.

 

[anthony263]

Look like noi more class 378s will be delivered until the rest have entered service which looks like it will not be this week but on the 15th july

 

[thelem]

The braking software is designed for a certain weight for the whole train and its cheaper to make a car heavier with ballast than rewrite the software and the associated testing.

Do you have a reference for that? I can believe it, but speaking as a software developer it would be poor practise (see wikipedia) and a surprising oversight to not support a range of weights when there are subclasses of different lengths and IIRC the train can weigh itself (TAPAS?).

 

[K_H]

Sorry to bring this thread down to my level but is it just me or is the upholstery on the 378s revolting? If you haven't seen it there are photos on London Reconnections - it's one of those migraine-inducing geometric arrangements of orange and brown, like you used to see on the District Line. I know these designs are good at camouflaging stains, but surely there are more aesthetically pleasing colour combinations that could be used.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, I think they're awful too. Incredibly outdated, and not even of 'retro' value.

But, there seems to be a belief that they're the best design ever and something that hides puke because it LOOKS like puke is a work of art. In fact, I bet anyone slagging them off will be struck down by those who also believe the Barbican Centre is the highlight of modern architecture.

Do you have a reference for that? I can believe it, but speaking as a software developer it would be poor practise (see wikipedia) and a surprising oversight to not support a range of weights when there are subclasses of different lengths and IIRC the train can weigh itself (TAPAS?).

I have no idea how they test trains, but if it was a car and the manufacturer made certain changes to a particular model (e.g. making major changes to the suspension to lower it) then it might have to go through a new series of tests (e.g. crash testing), which is expensive.

 

[Railway]

Pictures from yesterday's press launch at Willesden Junction:

http://www.upmain.fotopic.net/p59553559.html

http://www.upmain.fotopic.net/p59553558.html

http://www.upmain.fotopic.net/p59553557.html

 

[jon0844]

That train is so clean it looks like a 3D render..

..bet it won't look that clean for long!

When are they actually in service?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Saw it lastnight on the news "London Tonight" i kind of like the idear of the carriges,where you can walk straight threw carriges without doors kind of like a bendy bus.
Regards

 

[Dazz285]

Might be next week.. No body seems to really know ...
378005 & 378007 are in the process of being sold by Friday.

 

[Danielo]

How is the wheelchair user supposed to get on that in the first photo? Bad TfL publicity to show such a large gap between brand new shiny unetched ungraffitied train and platform.

 

[ukrob]

How is the wheelchair user supposed to get on that in the first photo? Bad TfL publicity to show such a large gap between brand new shiny unetched ungraffitied train and platform.

The same way as they would with just about any other heavy rail stock in the country?

 

[Dazz285]

By using the wheelchair ramp. Ramps are available at all stations..