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The driver's view: 'The memory of a rail suicide never leaves you'

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Bromley boy

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In a world of social media full names can lead to alot of issues with someone finding an individual online. I don't wear a name badge at all, although I wouldn't mind wearing my first name.

I tend to agree with this. Personally, I "dress down" when attending an incident - to the extent that I wear my own coat, which I can do up to completely not be visible to punters as staff if I need to get through a crowd quickly, but can undo to reveal shirt and tie to staff.

I think uniform is enough in all incident situations. And for those wearing “civilian” clothes a flash of the ID badge should surely be sufficient.

We had mandatory “name badges” introduced recently. The concession extracted by the union was that they could be a pseudonym. Unsurprisingly many were issued as Dr. Iver, D. River, etc.

The badges were found to be of a very low quality, and tended to break immediately upon opening.
Must have been a bad batch from the manufacturer :D. They are no longer worn by anyone.

Why on earth drivers or other railstaff need to wear name badges is anybody’s guess. In this day and age someone’s first name and job is all you need to find them online.

The police don’t wear name badges, I’m not sure Tesco’s staff do any longer either.
Why should railstaff be expected to?!
 
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bramling

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I'm genuinely surprised - and more than a little shocked - that it seems many staff feel so threatened by the travelling public that they're trying to hide their identity, or even that they are staff at all.
As someone who works in the media, my general approach is that transparency and openness are almost always the best approach; if only for the sake of honesty and enabling greater public understanding. Though obviously that shouldn't be at the expense of anyone's personal safety.
Is there a prevailing view amongst staff that the risk is so high as has been mentioned? Are things really that bad?

As regards incidents, it's more to with avoiding getting waylayed with dozens of enquiries "what's going on?", "which bus do I need to get me to X?", et cetera. It's simply not possible to spend time dealing with this, and in any case this is best left to the local station staff who have the local knowledge. No matter how assertive you are, it's simply quicker to blend in and get through the crowd, the hi-vi can come out of the pocket later.

For identity, it's not the end of the world, however certainly where I am we have had people who have been traced on social media, and start getting emails to their company email (it's not hard to work out what the company email address is once you have a name), requesting cab rides or other stuff. Whilst some staff don't mind being helpful with this sort of thing, it's not the official channel, and some people can be quite persistent.
 

bramling

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The police don’t wear name badges, I’m not sure Tesco’s staff do any longer either.
Why should railstaff be expected to?!

The only benefit I can think of is that when you're staff and at an incident, and someone else wants your name for their notes - especially if you have an awkward name! However this can be done by taking the namebadge out of your pocket and showing it to them, one doesn't actually have to wear it!
 

Bromley boy

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As someone who works in the media, my general approach is that transparency and openness are almost always the best approach; if only for the sake of honesty and enabling greater public understanding.

It depends what you do in the media.
If you’re office based, I doubt anyone knowing your identity would be an issue. If you’re an investigative journalist then I can well imagine it might be!

Unfortunately railstaff in uniform are instantly identifiable as TOC employees. As such they immediately become a target. I’ve spoken to quite a few guards and platform staff who’ve been hospitalised through assaults more than once, over the course of several years in the job.

In this day and age of Facebook, Twitter and other social media, I can well understand their extreme reluctance to disclose their names.

The only benefit I can think of is that when you're staff and at an incident, and someone else wants your name for their notes - especially if you have an awkward name! However this can be done by taking the namebadge out of your pocket and showing it to them, one doesn't actually have to wear it!

That’s an understandable need, but an ID badge you can reach for when required should surely suffice? After all, your name is irrelevant to your role!
 

bramling

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That’s an understandable need, but an ID badge you can reach for when required should surely suffice? After all, your name is irrelevant to your role!

Yes - except that where I am it doesn't have a grade mentioned on it, so that's one more thing to have to spell out to people (and I say this quite literally!).
 

SPADTrap

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I'm genuinely surprised - and more than a little shocked - that it seems many staff feel so threatened by the travelling public that they're trying to hide their identity, or even that they are staff at all.
As someone who works in the media, my general approach is that transparency and openness are almost always the best approach; if only for the sake of honesty and enabling greater public understanding. Though obviously that shouldn't be at the expense of anyone's personal safety.
Is there a prevailing view amongst staff that the risk is so high as has been mentioned? Are things really that bad?

Haven't you answered your own question?
 

Llanigraham

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I'm genuinely surprised - and more than a little shocked - that it seems many staff feel so threatened by the travelling public that they're trying to hide their identity, or even that they are staff at all.
As someone who works in the media, my general approach is that transparency and openness are almost always the best approach; if only for the sake of honesty and enabling greater public understanding. Though obviously that shouldn't be at the expense of anyone's personal safety.
Is there a prevailing view amongst staff that the risk is so high as has been mentioned? Are things really that bad?

Yes they can be.
I've been travelling to courses in an NR blue fleece (no hi-vis) and been harangued by passengers when we have been delayed, as if I am personally responsible.
The general public often don't understand who you work for, or why something has happened, even when it is explained to them, and will take out their frustration on anyone who works on the railway.

And when the level crossing you control fails......................!!!!
 

Mathew S

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It depends what you do in the media.
If you’re office based, I doubt anyone knowing your identity would be an issue. If you’re an investigative journalist then I can well imagine it might be!
It's a fair point, but even investigative journalists aren't (normally) allowed to use a false name, and are obliged to disclose their identity and employer to anyone who asks in the course of their employment. The only exceptions would be if it were 'in the public interest' not to follow those rules, but that's an extremely high threshold. (Not saying that there aren't some who ignore those rules, but that's another issue.)

To relate it to the topic of this thread, obviously emotions run very high after incidents like these. I've been to coroner's courts to cover inquests and, as a matter of course, report the names of all those involved. Never had to cover an inquest into a railway death but if I did I'd certainly be expected to include the name, employer, and job title of any staff who gave evidence, unless the court ordered otherwise.

Of course customers can be rude, obnoxious, insulting, threatening, and will naturally take out their frustrations on the nearest person wearing a uniform. That's, oddly, both a fact of life and also inexcusable. But are we really saying that there is such a risk of personal harm that staff should routinely disguise their identity?
 

Mathew S

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I've been travelling to courses in an NR blue fleece (no hi-vis) and been harangued by passengers when we have been delayed, as if I am personally responsible.
The general public often don't understand who you work for, or why something has happened, even when it is explained to them, and will take out their frustration on anyone who works on the railway.
I do see how frustrating that would be and there is, of course, no excuse for abuse from passengers or anyone else. But the way a few have been speaking it sounds as though they feel their safety is at risk if the public get to know their name. I'm just wondering how great the risk to their personal safety actually is.
 

221129

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It's a fair point, but even investigative journalists aren't (normally) allowed to use a false name, and are obliged to disclose their identity and employer to anyone who asks in the course of their employment. The only exceptions would be if it were 'in the public interest' not to follow those rules, but that's an extremely high threshold. (Not saying that there aren't some who ignore those rules, but that's another issue.)

To relate it to the topic of this thread, obviously emotions run very high after incidents like these. I've been to coroner's courts to cover inquests and, as a matter of course, report the names of all those involved. Never had to cover an inquest into a railway death but if I did I'd certainly be expected to include the name, employer, and job title of any staff who gave evidence, unless the court ordered otherwise.

Of course customers can be rude, obnoxious, insulting, threatening, and will naturally take out their frustrations on the nearest person wearing a uniform. That's a fact of life. But are we really saying that there is such a risk of personal harm that staff should routinely disguise their identity?
Yes. The harassment some staff have received from certain members of society after their identities have been disclosed can be quite frightening. And for that reason alone I will not wear a name badge with my full name on it. I wear my Transec ID when in non public areas but normally have it covered where possible when in public areas and don't tend to wear my company issued name badge unless there is a reason to.
 

Mathew S

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nfortunately railstaff in uniform are instantly identifiable as TOC employees. As such they immediately become a target. I’ve spoken to quite a few guards and platform staff who’ve been hospitalised through assaults more than once, over the course of several years in the job.

Yes. The harassment some staff have received from certain members of society after their identities have been disclosed can be quite frightening.

It's awful that this is the case. As I said, I'm really surprised but also genuinely saddened that railway staff just doing their jobs should have to dear for their own safety.

Out of curiosity, imagining that I'm reporting on a railway incident, do you think there's a genuine argument that the names of frontline staff should be kept out of the media? Do you think that would make any difference? If so, it's certainly something that I'll remember for the future.
 

Mintona

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A former colleague of mine was harassed on social media by a passenger who had found out her name from her name badge. At the time my name badge had my full name on, but we were quickly re-issued with badges that only had our first names.

I’m aware that East Midlands Trains badges certainly used to display full names, but you were allowed to pick your own surname. Easily identifiable but not as yourself.
 

Steve Harris

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A former colleague of mine was harassed on social media by a passenger who had found out her name from her name badge. At the time my name badge had my full name on, but we were quickly re-issued with badges that only had our first names.

And thats when Mr PC Plod should be notified! Who should notify said perpetrator that harassement is a crime.

Obviously that wont stop everybody carrying out harassment but i would have a guess it will stop most. Its amazing how quiet some people get when they're asked if they want a trip to jail!
 

silverfoxcc

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Bromley Boy

You need to go to specsavers

All police officers in unifirm wear a badge on the lh side that states
PC ( name)
Metropolitan police officer
Along with their warrant number on the shoulder


Tescos have a circular badge that says

Name
Working since 19xx ( or 20xx)

And Sainsburys first name

And BA first name but full if wanted
 

Mathew S

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Bromley Boy

You need to go to specsavers

All police officers in unifirm wear a badge on the lh side that states
PC ( name)
Metropolitan police officer
Along with their warrant number on the shoulder


Tescos have a circular badge that says

Name
Working since 19xx ( or 20xx)

And Sainsburys first name

And BA first name but full if wanted
Most, if not all, public facing workers wear full name badges including nurses, doctors, teachers, paramedics, and many many more. It's a function of the world that we live in now that people are expected to wear ID.
If there's a genuine feeling amongst staff that doing so puts them at risk then the follow up question is how we ensure that ID is ensured without using names.
 

Eccles1983

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I have worked in several of the above named professions. As a teacher I never had to wear my name on a badge or even carry Id. As a bobby I had my warrant card that stayed in my pocket. I had a shoulder number but that was impossible to identify me in anyway except through internal systems.


Not once was I made to wear my name on a badge.

I dont see the massive reason why someone should want or even in cases demand to know my name. It's not a function of the world, merely a very poor management tool as half the time they can't be bothered to actually learn your name.
 

skyhigh

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Bromley Boy

You need to go to specsavers

All police officers in unifirm wear a badge on the lh side that states
PC ( name)
Metropolitan police officer
Along with their warrant number on the shoulder
And you're absolutely sure about that, are you?

Warrant number somewhere visible, yes.
 

221129

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Bromley Boy

You need to go to specsavers

All police officers in unifirm wear a badge on the lh side that states
PC ( name)
Metropolitan police officer
Along with their warrant number on the shoulder
The Met and West Mids are pretty much the only force that does this.
 

Lockwood

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Police tend to make do with a collar number.
The Met have badges with a full name on. I think Surrey ones just have "PC Smith" on.

The ambulance service tends to go with first name badges, with managers having their full name on (Makes it easy to spot who to hide from)

Tesco staff have first name badges.


I have had colleagues be tracked down on social media by patients before, so they tend to be careful about how obvious they make their name.
I have had some jobs where I have used my PIN only on the paperwork, rather than PIN and name, because I wanted to reduce the chance of the... charming.... individual being able to contact me. My crewmate did the exact same thing.


Where I work now, we do not have names on our uniform and ID has to be carried and presented on request, but does not have to be on constant display.
 

philthetube

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Out of curiosity, imagining that I'm reporting on a railway incident, do you think there's a genuine argument that the names of frontline staff should be kept out of the media? Do you think that would make any difference? If so, it's certainly something that I'll remember for the future.

Unless the incident involves negligence and not just someone doing their job and being in the wrong place at the wrong time then names are irrelevant. , so I see no need to publish names, the only people who will have an interest will be any who have ulterior motives, saying John smith was the driver tells nothing beneficial to anyone.
 

AlexNL

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Here in the Netherlands you won't see names on badges worn by train staff. If they even wear a badge, it's only to state their rank.

If a passenger wants to raise a compliment or complaint about a member of staff they usually do so by saying 'the guard of the 1820 from X to Y' which is usually enough for the railways to figure out who this was.

I have heard an upset passenger once ask "what's your name, so I can raise a complaint about you?" to which the guard responded: "Sir, I am not going to give you my name but I can give you my payroll number if you want."
 

Bromley boy

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Out of curiosity, imagining that I'm reporting on a railway incident, do you think there's a genuine argument that the names of frontline staff should be kept out of the media? Do you think that would make any difference? If so, it's certainly something that I'll remember for the future.

Yes please. I would suggest their name is irrelevant to the story in most cases and including it will add nothing to your reporting. I appreciate at an inquest it may be public knowledge, but it adds very little to the story.
 
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Bromley boy

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Here in the Netherlands you won't see names on badges worn by train staff. If they even wear a badge, it's only to state their rank.

If a passenger wants to raise a compliment or complaint about a member of staff they usually do so by saying 'the guard of the 1820 from X to Y' which is usually enough for the railways to figure out who this was.

I have heard an upset passenger once ask "what's your name, so I can raise a complaint about you?" to which the guard responded: "Sir, I am not going to give you my name but I can give you my payroll number if you want."

A far more sensible approach!
 

IanXC

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Can I remind everyone of the title of this thread, and ask that we remain on topic.
 

Master29

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I always remember an old Gent who came to our school years ago. He had driven the Mallard a few times down the East coast I remember him saying. This was in the 70`s and this guy had been driving for some 30 odd years I think and he had come to our school to give a special assembly about a spate of trespass incidents locally on the railways that had occurred at that time. I never forget how he started. The first thing he said was he had killed 4 people in his life as a train driver and you could hear a pin drop. You could see how affected he was by the whole thing understandably and he then went on to say he had known people who had hit children and could never drive again. Always stayed with me did that assembly.
 

Panupreset

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The inquest into my fatality was a couple of weeks ago, it was a documentary inquest and so I was not required to attend. An open verdict was recorded. It was a particularly unusual fatality involving a child.

There was some local press coverage of the inquest, myself and another driver were named in some of the reports.

The time of the inquest can often be difficult for those that were involved, as it inevitably brings events back to the front of your mind after you have done your best to move on and get on with your life.

It must also have been a difficult time for the child's family, who will always be in my thoughts when I think about that day.
 

LOL The Irony

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The inquest into my fatality was a couple of weeks ago, it was a documentary inquest and so I was not required to attend. An open verdict was recorded. It was a particularly unusual fatality involving a child.

There was some local press coverage of the inquest, myself and another driver were named in some of the reports.

The time of the inquest can often be difficult for those that were involved, as it inevitably brings events back to the front of your mind after you have done your best to move on and get on with your life.

It must also have been a difficult time for the child's family, who will always be in my thoughts when I think about that day.
Typical scumbag press. My condolences for the family of the deceased.
 
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