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SWR Guard and a customer with Aspergers

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al78

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Indeed and in this situation it might also make things easier if you go and see the guard immediately upon boarding to explain the situation, rather than waiting for them to pass through the train.

I've never thought of that but it sounds like a good idea. It would be harder for the guard to accuse me of attempted fare evasion if I have deliberately sought them and attempted to explain the situation.
 
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Wychwood93

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As a local lad myself, my opinion of the OHEC has always been pretty low and the contributors to the comments section online probably only have on average half a brain cell anyway.
As another 'local lad' I would agree with yourself and adc82140 that the ECHO/OHEC - the latter if you get a free copy - not wonderful. However, the comments page still goes on and mentions a member of staff by name for an 'incident' a couple of years ago. The name mentioned may or may not be the same person I knew in ticket office days early 90's - have a look at 'our' paper. Back then we (Bournemouth travel centre/ticket office/TEB) had a computer that was wholly internal (it would have been then!) and had nicknames for staff (we all knew who was who) and customer tales - the sillies we all used to hear.

Back then tickets were a tad easier to understand - although the NSE 5-day return caused quite a lot of misunderstanding in that you had to return four days after purchase. 'This was never explained to me at the time' being a constant grumble - many an RPI/guard must have been more than accustomed to that. How many were genuine? Who will ever know. Benefit of doubt would depend on how picky they were - some staff I knew would have had customers lynched had they had the chance, others a touch more forgiving!
 
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IanXC

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The criminal test is "beyond reasonable doubt". If you can say who you spoke to, and when, and what the conversation included, you're probably going to be able to raise a reasonable doubt.

"The man on the platform" won't cut it. "The ginger lass, aged about 35, on the second gateline by Dunkin' Donuts at 2.50" probably will.

And if they are not telling the truth then they may be breaching the law , only in arguably a worse way .

The company may be in breach of contract law , the damages for which would amount to a refund for the incorrectly charged ticket .Unless I am mistaken that is the most damages the person could seek to recover

The customer if travelling on an invalid ticket but dishonestly claiming to have authority to travel could quite easily be seen to be intentionally avoiding payment so could be committing a regulation of railway act offence .

I think both sides of this debate ought to carefully consider the above two posts which I think summarise the situation pretty well. There is a certain disconnect between The Regulation of Railways Act 1889, and the Consumer Rights Act 2015. As yet, to my knowledge, this disconnect has yet to be considered by a court that can set precedent so we are yet to see the judicial view.

That said, the above posts express pragmatic views that readers would do well to consider.

If there is a case of gateline staff telling people to get on and guards having no proof of that. Shouldnt this be something that the guards raise in meetings so there is a clear unambiguous policy on that matter.

Indeed. Given the lack of action taken on this problem, it would seem that this problem is relatively isolated instances anyway.
 

142blue

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Could the guard not have called the station, asked to speak to the team leader or manager there to confirm the customer had been given authority to travel earlier?

This could have been avoided if a system exists to demonstrate authority has been permitted with the passengers name, person giving authority and a brief explanation why

Certainly doesn't excuse the derisory comments made on FB but that can be addressed separately
 

Monty

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Could the guard not have called the station, asked to speak to the team leader or manager there to confirm the customer had been given authority to travel earlier?

This could have been avoided if a system exists to demonstrate authority has been permitted with the passengers name, person giving authority and a brief explanation why

A few years ago this would of been quite possible, but since the railway switchboard was abolished it's become increasingly difficult to contact stations and other locations on the railway you would normally not need to at short notice.
 

ModernRailways

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Could the guard not have called the station, asked to speak to the team leader or manager there to confirm the customer had been given authority to travel earlier?

This could have been avoided if a system exists to demonstrate authority has been permitted with the passengers name, person giving authority and a brief explanation why

Certainly doesn't excuse the derisory comments made on FB but that can be addressed separately

I'm not sure how differently it works on National Rail, but at Metro our way of working is to give verbal permission. If you encounter an issue further along you can give the location and the member of staffs ID number and they can get in touch with the staff member or, if not, we give the benefit of the doubt and let you on your way. In some cases we'll send an email out to all staff, but in most situations verbal permission is fine because you won't encounter any more staff on your trip. We don't use advance tickets so most of the time we are giving permission for people with incorrect ticketing zones, ticket machine faults, or just bloody good sob stories.

For the guy to go onto social media and make a post about this complaining is rotten in my view. Complaining about your employer is a big enough no-no (we've had a staff member given disciplinary action for complaining about work conditions etc. on Facebook on his supposedly 'private' account (they were friends with a manager who was obligated to report it)), but to complain about passengers is just beyond belief and in my view a sackable offence. We can all have hard days, but the majority don't then go out looking for some Facebook likes/attention.

I'm aware of who the guard involved is, as he was banned from our network on a few occasions and he was also dismissed from London Overground so I'm going to dive back out and just follow along again.
 

gray1404

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It is not always possible to get a ticket endorsed. I often travel on an Advance ticket that involves 3 or 4 booked trains. One of these involves changing at Birmingham New Street. We all know how bad LM can be and I am often delayed and miss my connection. When I arrive at New Street delayed I simply head to the next service according to the TOC restrictions printed on my ticket. I would take great offence if anyone attempted to charge me when I had been delay and travelled on the next service just because I have not got my ticket endorsed. I am under no contractual duty too.

I have also had staff refuse to endorse tickets when they have given me permission to do something different when a train has been cancelled. They have just said "just explain if asked" or "they'll let you through don't worry." People do not always like putting their names to something.
 

WA_Driver

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I think it’s fair to say that everyone in this situation is wrong to a certain degree. The guard isn’t the only one in the wrong. The gateline staff should not of agreed to allowing the passengers on a train they knew they shouldn’t have.

The passengers should of travelled on the train they booked for....

And the “journalist” shouldn’t of got involved with something they know nothing or very little about....but “journalist” like nothing more than having their names in bright lights! Especially if it involves the Railway.

And what if the guard turned a blind eye and another paying passenger overheard and complained? We would still be having a conversation asking ourselves if the guard was in the right.
 

ModernRailways

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And what if the guard turned a blind eye and another paying passenger overheard and complained? We would still be having a conversation asking ourselves if the guard was in the right.

No we wouldn't because this situation wouldn't have happened in that case. Another passenger could complain (albeit incredibly unlikely), but all you'd need to say is 'they've been given permission to travel'. If they were then to go on about it then you should just advise them to get in touch with customer services.
 

Master29

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I wonder if this person with Aspergers had an obvious physical disability this whole topic would have never taken place simply because of appearance. Far too often autistic people are judged like this.
 

Bromley boy

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I wonder if this person with Aspergers had an obvious physical disability this whole topic would have never taken place simply because of appearance. Far too often autistic people are judged like this.

I doubt it. The fact the girl had Aspergers is of tenuous relevance to the story given that she was with two non-Aspergers suffering adults.

It appears only to have been mentioned in an attempt to “sex up” what is otherwise something of a non story.
 

AlterEgo

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I wonder if this person with Aspergers had an obvious physical disability this whole topic would have never taken place simply because of appearance. Far too often autistic people are judged like this.

It is the daughter with Aspergers and the nature of the disability is of zero relevance to what actually happened.
 

Master29

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I doubt it. The fact the girl had Aspergers is of tenuous relevance to the story given that she was with two non-Aspergers suffering adults.
It appears only to have been mentioned in an attempt to “sex up” what is otherwise something of a non story.

It is the daughter with Aspergers and the nature of the disability is of zero relevance to what actually happened.

I agree. I was only looking at that situation had no one been there with her. Whilst I maintain this can be a problem with understanding autism, in this case that doesn`t really apply. Apologies if my initial post was misleading.
 

AlterEgo

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I agree. I was only looking at that situation had no one been there with her. Whilst I maintain this can be a problem with understanding autism, in this case that doesn`t really apply. Apologies if my initial post was misleading.

Not a problem. The news article and thread title are misleading so I don’t think you can be blamed!
 

bb21

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So if he gets sacked, i guess we can expect strike action....
The unions don't go out on strike at a whim without a good reason. They need to be able to justify the loss of earnings to their members.
 

lammergeier

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I doubt it. The fact the girl had Aspergers is of tenuous relevance to the story given that she was with two non-Aspergers suffering adults.

It appears only to have been mentioned in an attempt to “sex up” what is otherwise something of a non story.

I suspect SWR's HR department will view matters differently...
 

Bromley boy

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I suspect SWR's HR department will view matters differently...

Have you read the story?

The major complaint against the guard is that he criticised/slagged off passengers on social media in a way that enabled them to be identified. Nothing really to do with the fact the daughter had Aspergers which was an incidental issue.

I don't know what the guard actually wrote so won't comment further.
 

AntoniC

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Abuse of social media policy led to one of my (former) colleagues being sacked for being less than complimentary about a manager on Facebook .
(This is in the Civil Service).
So it does happen, how often it happens I dont know
 

lammergeier

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I don't. Abuse of the social media policy is up alongside thieving and turning up p*ssed. The TOCs are pretty unambiguous about it too.

I agree, I know of a couple of staff members sacked for social media postings. One was fairly spectacular and it was inevitable he was out of the door but the other was more nuanced. Bring the company into disrepute on social media and you're on thin ice.

Assuming the unfortunate staff member involved was in a union, it will be interesting to see how they respond.
 

WA_Driver

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I find that hard to believe unless there are other issues going on.

Really.....this Guard was “known” to management and it isn’t the first complaint they received about him....

He is so famous that he has been moaned about by well known Radio Presenters who travel on SWR trains on their shows.
 

theironroad

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Apparently it’s true......
Really.....this Guard was “known” to management and it isn’t the first complaint they received about him....

He is so famous that he has been moaned about by well known Radio Presenters who travel on SWR trains on their shows.

I must listen to the wrong radio shows I guess.

Has the guard had their appeal yet?
 

LowLevel

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I find that hard to believe unless there are other issues going on.

A customer facing member of staff slateing a known passenger under their own name? I'd have put a fiver on them getting their P45 on that alone. It's not sensible and it shouldn't be done.
 
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