gordonthemoron
Established Member
What's the likelihood that they'll use 2+3 seating?
What's the likelihood that they'll use 2+3 seating?
Stevenage could be a magnet for Hertfordshire. Good connections to Cambridge as well. Significantly quicker than via Peterborough.
Those are pretty harsh restrictions, does it mean you have to buy advance tickets even if you might prefer the flexibility of not wanting to be tied to a certain train (e.g. if your appointment finishes early or late)?
What's the likelihood that they'll use 2+3 seating?
Erm... no. The quickest Cambridge - Peterborough services are 49 mins
The quickest Cambridge - Stevenage is 37 mins.
There's no way any train is covering Stevenage - Peterborough in 12 minutes..... as it happens the quickest is 29 minutes.
Power supply upgrades on the ECML. Read this months “Modern Railways”A pity it is planned so far into the future. What could be the hold up, especially if they use existing designs?
That surprised me as well. I thought they were part of the Hull Trains order. Still to me I would have gone for mk4s on short lease. Checked reactions then ordered new if it looks good. We have off-lease stock by then. Grand Central didn’t have that luxury. Hull trains did sort of (although Anglia railway users may not agree)Well they don't seem to have placed the order for the new trains yet? What's more, they didn't apply for rights that commence yet!
But considering that the train will be non-stop from Stevenage to Newcastle it will be much quicker for people from Cambridge. Changing at Peterborough (assuming it is a good connection) the franchised operator will call at Doncaster, York, Darlington at least.
The fact that Stevenage - Cambridge is frequent (ie not 1 train per hour) I stand by that it will be more attractive for Cambridge.
This is pretty optimistic. You'll want at least 20 minutes, and probably more like 30-40 to get comfortably from the Tube upstairs, through security and across the lounge to the gate. 35 is also the quickest time I've ever done from touchdown into the centre, and that was front of aircraft straight onto a bus as the doors closed and a motivated driver consistently speeding.I've done some quick searches online using the Transport for London journey planner in response to some posts referring to air/coach/road travel.
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Via Heathrow (Terminal 5 - I believe that is what British Airways use) - 47 minutes via Central Line and Circle/District changing at Notting Hill Gate. A further 45 minutes minimum check in required for a domestic flight, plus 65-75 minutes Heathrow - Edinburgh. Another 35-45 minutes to leave the aircraft and travel to Waverley station via the 100 bus. Total journey time = 47+45+70+40 = 3hours 22 minutes
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Not me. I wasn’t even alive in BR days.How many of those on here whinging about the lack of First Class are ex-BR employees with free travel?
Sad to admit, I had. Must re-read.Power supply upgrades on the ECML. Read this months “Modern Railways”
A lot of business people will have a destination in a city centre though perhaps not an origin. The benchmark when rail wins out over air has traditionally been three hours centre to centre, which is obviously a simplification of everyone having their own journey with a slightly different balance of time by different modes. However with increased airport security that threshold is probably creeping above 3hr.The problem with the 4 hour journey time is that very few people are traveling city centre to city centre and those that do are already probably on rail. Take my Garelochead to Kent journey times as an example; Air 6 hours, Rail 9 hours, Car 10 hours ( all door to door). The rail option assumes using Glasgow to Euston. On this basis Virgin need to slash 3 hours from a 4hr 30 schedule to compete with Easyjet (or BA for tonight's journey)
I've done some quick searches online using the Transport for London journey planner in response to some posts referring to air/coach/road travel.
It is noted that the reference point I have used for London is the former GPO building at St Paul's which is near the tube station (this is (or was) the reference point that the AA (Automobile Association) use when inputting "London" as a generic placename). Below is what I have come up with:
Via Heathrow (Terminal 5 - I believe that is what British Airways use) - 47 minutes via Central Line and Circle/District changing at Notting Hill Gate. A further 45 minutes minimum check in required for a domestic flight, plus 65-75 minutes Heathrow - Edinburgh. Another 35-45 minutes to leave the aircraft and travel to Waverley station via the 100 bus. Total journey time = 47+45+70+40 = 3hours 22 minutes
Via Victoria (National Express or Megabus) - 25 minutes via Central Line and Victoria Line changing at Oxford Circus. 12 minutes walking time to the coach station. 8-9 hours depending on time of day and route. Add 10 minutes or so to walk from St Andrew's Square Bus Station to Waverley station. Total journey time = 25+12+10 = 47 minutes, which added to the coach journey can be between 8 hours 47 minutes and 9 hours 47 minutes.
Via Kings Cross and York - 16 minutes via Central Line and Northern Line changing at Bank (for masochists only). An alternative with a similar journey time can be had by changing to Victoria Line at Oxford Circus instead. Add 15 minutes to make way from the Underground to the mainline station. The First Group OA is scheduled to have a 3 hour 50 minutes running time from KGX - Edinburgh Waverley as mentioned in previous posts above. Total journey time = 3 hour 50 minutes+ 15+16 = 4 hours 21 minutes.
Overall, I believe that First Group will be able to tap into business and leisure passengers who are price sensitive, as although the journey time would be an extra hour compared to flying (assuming most passengers are starting/ending their journeys near the vicinity of the reference points), the comfort factor would more than make up for it.
However if the employee then has to kick their heels unproductively waiting for their booked train then that is employer's time wasted. Once the cost of time is taken into account a whole lot of other factors come into play, including whether there is somewhere they can work while waiting for a train and whether the nature of the work and the on-board conditions allows them to do anything productive on the train or plane itself. Many trains run hourly when the equivalent flight is only a couple of times a day, so even without the need for flexibility using the train may allow a option to be chosen that minimises wasted time.They are the same as my employer (it might well be the same employer, FWIW). This is very common, as companies do need to weed out people unnecessarily buying punitively priced Anytime tickets, and if you're travelling within working hours you don't actually have any right to time back in that way.
This is pretty optimistic. You'll want at least 20 minutes, and probably more like 30-40 to get comfortably from the Tube upstairs, through security and across the lounge to the gate. 35 is also the quickest time I've ever done from touchdown into the centre, and that was front of aircraft straight onto a bus as the doors closed and a motivated driver consistently speeding.
EDIT:
That said, I'd have thought LCY was the faster airport from St Pauls
IF the EC was relet, and First won, I wonder if this would be integrated into their EC operation, or would continue to run separate? Same with HullTrains as well...
Will they? Of late one of the reasons given for repeated total fleet replacements has been that new stock is actually quite cheap. One of the reasons the 707s are going is that prices have fallen since the contracts for them were signed.The leasing costs will be high and this will evetually have to be passed on to the user in one way or another.
It would have made more sense to utilise a few sets of mk4s and 91's with extra locos for cover.
I wonder how valid this assumption is.
Personally I usually fly between London and Edinburgh because I prefer to avoid Zone 1 and it's just as easy to get to my destination from EDI as from EDB; though I prefer train for Newcastle as NCL is not served from LCY or LGW and while I enjoy riding the T&W metro, it adds >30 mins to the journey.
Some airline passengers will also have the London airport as their destination to continue flying elsewhere.
A lot of business people will have a destination in a city centre though perhaps not an origin. The benchmark when rail wins out over air has traditionally been three hours centre to centre, which is obviously a simplification of everyone having their own journey with a slightly different balance of time by different modes. However with increased airport security that threshold is probably creeping above 3hr.
It's also relevant that many of the competing low-cost flights will leave from Luton or Stansted. People going to/from a large area north of London can probably access Stevenage in a similar time to either airport, so don't need to count the time to get into London against the rail option. Similarly, to a lesser extent, Morpeth versus Newcastle Airport.
I doubt that many of the current business travellers on air have a destination of Edinburgh City Centre to be honest. Most people are either met at Edinburgh Airport, hire cars or get a taxi. I think Edinburgh City centre (Waverley station) is primarily a tourist destination.
There are many offices in central Edinburgh, mainly in the "new town" down the hill. Though equally quite a few businesses cluster around the airport, and people will fly when going there regardless.
Why don’t you have a punt at an Anglo-Scottish Pullman service, using all of the spare Mk4 FOs, a couple of kitchen cars and full at-seat service. Should tie-in nicely with your marketing degree at uni - you could use your business plan for your dissertation. What could possibly go wrong?Indeed they do, but I do wonder how popular this service will be. It sounds like my idea of hell!
As for the top comment, I am no snob - I dislike snobbish commentsnas much as the next person. I certainly can travel without first class, thank you very much. I bashed thirty three ScotRail trains in Glasgow in January and despite getting there and back in first all of those ScotRail trains were in Standard. It was an icky struggle but I managed I’m sorry if I have come across as snobbish but without wanting to deflect the nags to anyone I am not the only one put off the company by its standard class only plans. The OP dislikes the idea too.
Always nice to have something to get into though, so thanks
Marketing degree? I highly doubt it. I did get a 9 in my last GCSE Business Studies mock exam, but even so I doubt I could run a Pullman service.Why don’t you have a punt at an Anglo-Scottish Pullman service, using all of the spare Mk4 FOs, a couple of kitchen cars and full at-seat service. Should tie-in nicely with your marketing degree at uni - you could use your business plan for your dissertation. What could possibly go wrong?