Liverpool to Edinburgh : did trains ever historically go via York?

[MontyP]

With the proposed extension of some TPE services on the Liverpool-Newcastle route onwards to Edinburgh, it got me wondering whether services have ever done this route before? I have a vague recollection that this might have happened in the days of loco-hauled transpennine (late 70s to late 80s?). Does anyone have any information on this?

 

[dubscottie]

As far as I know, no service ran between Liverpool and Edinburgh via York. They went down the WCML.

There was York - Edinburgh stoppers however.

There were also holiday special trains that ran from North Wales/Scarborough to Scotland.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

To answer the OP: occasionally, ie on diversion. My records show a trip one Sunday in early 1985 on a Liverpool-Glasgow train that went via Manchester, York and Edinburgh. It was effectively a WCML service going the long way round and as a single train instead of the usual portions though I daresay portion operation was restored by splitting the train in Edinburgh.

 

[daikilo]

With the proposed extension of some TPE services on the Liverpool-Newcastle route onwards to Edinburgh, it got me wondering whether services have ever done this route before? I have a vague recollection that this might have happened in the days of loco-hauled transpennine (late 70s to late 80s?). Does anyone have any information on this?

There were certainly none in the early 1970s when DMUs were used on the TP, indeed none went beyond York. In those days, if you wanted to go from Liverpool to EDB you would go WCML. I cannot recall any through services from Liverpool during the TP loco-hauled days either but there may have been an unpublished add-on.

To be honest, I don't understand why TPE will extend to EDB unless it is fulfilling a West Yorkshire-Scotland role for which VTEC has no suitable stock, or to create some "fare competition".

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

To be honest, I don't understand why TPE will extend to EDB unless it is fulfilling a West Yorkshire-Scotland role for which VTEC has no suitable stock, or to create some "fare competition".

West Yorkshire-Scotland is arguably Cross-Country's responsibility but their fleet is too small even now. The TPE franchise renewal offered the opportunity to build in sufficient fleet expansion to allow TPE to provide additional capacity. It's also a chance to see whether there is much of a market from Huddersfield, an important student town in its own right, to Edinburgh.

 

[Ianigsy]

I certainly had a Sunday day out in York in the second half of the 1980s on a 47-hauled Liverpool-York-Edinburgh service. As the WCML north of Crewe was often closed on winter Sunday mornings, it provided an alternative route from Liverpool and Manchester to Scotland

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If you go far enough back, you find a Manchester-Edinburgh via Hellifield, Carlisle and Galashiels (the L&Y/Midland/NB route).
Possibly with a portion from Liverpool Exchange attached at Blackburn.
Really, it all goes back to the agreements between the pre-grouping railways, and the way grouping was done in 1923.
The Liverpool-Newcastle was a joint LNWR/NER service, but the LNWR wouldn't have had an arrangement with the North British as it was deeply tied in to the Caledonian.
So no trains to Edinburgh via the NB.

I was fascinated to learn that the LMS had a 30% ownership of the Forth Bridge.
It got this via the Midland, which put up 30% of the original cost, with the ECML companies (GN/NE/NB) having the major share.
So the Midland worked with the NB (and G&SW), while the LNWR didn't.
Even in the 1960s these company niceties were still being followed by BR.
Manchester-Scotland had one train with portions from LNW stations (Man Exchange, Liv Lime St via Wigan NW), while another used L&Y stations (Man Vic, Liv Exchange).

 

[alistairlees]

As far as I know, no service ran between Liverpool and Edinburgh via York. They went down the WCML.

As I think another poster has already said, there was a Liverpool - York - Edinburgh in the mid 1980s on Sundays. I think it ran for a couple of years at least.

 

[alistairlees]

There were certainly none in the early 1970s when DMUs were used on the TP, indeed none went beyond York.

Is that true? I'm pretty sure there were always at least two or three Liverpool - Newcastle services every day, even in the early 1970s.

 

[sluf]

I seem to remember Liverpool Edinburgh trains joining at Preston with several coaches coming from Manchester, then the train divided at Carstairs with the rear section going to Edinburgh and the front section continuing to Glasgow. I also remember catching trains originally from liverpool at Manchester Victoria that went through to York (where I got off) so I assume it went as far as Newcastle as it continued north when. It was usually a peak or sometimes a 47. Also travelled on the trans pennine DMUs as well. great memories

 

[BR_Nick1980]

I'm currently doing some work logging ALL class 45/46 movements and have the 1979/80 timetable to hand.
The 0805 Liverpool - Newcastle went through to Edinburgh on summer Saturdays arr 1357. It came back @ 1525 arr Liverpool 2116.

I think this train did the same for a few years prior and later as well.

 

[Steamysandy]

I seem to remember Liverpool Edinburgh trains joining at Preston with several coaches coming from Manchester, then the train divided at Carstairs with the rear section going to Edinburgh and the front section continuing to Glasgow. I also remember catching trains originally from liverpool at Manchester Victoria that went through to York (where I got off) so I assume it went as far as Newcastle as it continued north when. It was usually a peak or sometimes a 47. Also travelled on the trans pennine DMUs as well. great memories

I travelled back and forward in the 1970s between Manchester and Edinburgh and the trains joining at Preston and dividing at Carstairs is what I remember..However on one occasion following a heavy snowfall the train ran through to Glasgow Central in one section