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TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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47802

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You get claims like this, and then they get disproven.

It was almost impossible to have proper cab end gangways, leading to silly designs like the Juniper EMU, then came the Electrostar and Desiro fleets with, er, proper cab end gangways. (That Hitachi have stuffed it up is neither here nor there).

It was almost impossible to have properly-sized overhead luggage racks, then came the Desiros, Pendolinos and Class 800s.

It was almost impossible to meet the latest emissions regulations with underfloor engines, then came the Class 195s and 800s.

Normally, these things aren't actually true. Good engineers find a way, bad engineers make excuses. (Even worse ones claim they have when they haven't - yes, you and your dodgy cab windscreens, Hitachi).

There's a few things I could say to the above but I'm not going to bother as they are not particularly relevant to this thread.

Clearly these trains could be considered an alternative to the HST Short Sets for Scotrail, and Wales if you believe the rumours, what will be interesting is to see which proves the most reliable, the new train with single engine point of failure, or the modernised very old train without the single engine point of failure. It would also be interesting to know how the overall costs of each compare as well.

The one thing you can say is that in terms of basic kerbside appeal is these trains make HST's look like something out of the Arc.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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It's difficult to see inside, but if those are seats they look very high and not particularly well aligned.
If not, then the vehicles are incomplete.
Presumably there is test equipment involved for Velim.
 

47802

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Of course can you really take much notice of those, the original Northern CAF Unit Pic's/Video had some really nice looking seats which have since transformed in Ironing Boards
 

BMIFlyer

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Of course can you really take much notice of those, the original Northern CAF Unit Pic's/Video had some really nice looking seats which have since transformed in Ironing Boards
Having seen the real seats in person, and sat on 2 of them, I can assure you that they are not that much different to the illustration, oh and they are comfy! :D
 

hexagon789

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Having seen the real seats in person, and sat on 2 of them, I can assure you that they are not that much different to the illustration, oh and they are comfy! :D

Good, considering the seats that have gone onto recently constructed trains, it makes a pleasant change to hear that comfortable seats are not a thing of the past! :smile:
 

stepho

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Wow, just wow. That looks absolutely spot on in just about every way.

Apart from, I guess, that if it grows loadings enough it'll need another couple of coaches. And it could do with the yellow stripe for 1st, though I suppose that could be added later.

Very much so, look great although I feel that these are probably a coach too short from the outset.

Not too sure what routes these are working, and I’m far from a fan of doors at thirds, but the current stock allows for a large number of standing passengers, the doors at thirds also encourages people to move down inside the train and allows ease of movement that end doors do not.
 

IanXC

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Is that fact or just speculation on your part. The current 88's are not specified for 125mph, if TPE is electrified there are potentially a few options, and if we end up with discontinuous electrification then a larger fleet of 802's would seem likely. Anyway that's for the future and much relevemt to current loco hauled introduction.

Funnily enough the stock ordered at the beginning of the franchise reflects what the franchise agreement says, and the expected infrastructure possibilities at that time. I for one think this is a very good solution to that requirement.

From memory I have a feeling it only talks about the franchisee's rolling stock solutions taking account of the future possibility of electrification.
 

WatcherZero

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The 88's have almost as much power as a 390 and the trailers were specified to be 125mph capable, though the likelihood of seeing the locomotives upgraded for 110/125mph running is probably lessened if there is significant semi-high speed stock ordered for NPR.
 

BeHereNow

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As others have said they look great, the colour scheme is fantastic. A bit worried about the door width though.
 

hexagon789

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A bit worried about the door width though.

Presumably it must meet the requirements on those and it looks very similar in design to those on a Voyager, but from the photos I agree it doesn't look all that wide. Maybe a trick of the light?
 

Spartacus

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Presumably it must meet the requirements on those and it looks very similar in design to those on a Voyager, but from the photos I agree it doesn't look all that wide. Maybe a trick of the light?

I guess it's just because people are more familiar with double doors. I can't say these look any different to the doors on a 444 from the same sort of angle.
 

hexagon789

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I guess it's just because people are more familiar with double doors. I can't say these look any different to the doors on a 444 from the same sort of angle.

I'm intrigued as to how the door width would compare with Mk4 coaching stock, the best comparison I can think of.
 

Mikey C

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Lovely livery that, will the other "Viva" trains get the same design?
 

corsaVXR

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they look good - shame they don't have the tidier / panelled underbodies like a mark 3/4/class 390/800 etc
 

driver9000

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they look good - shame they don't have the tidier / panelled underbodies like a mark 3/4/class 390/800 etc

They may be fitted later but I can't remember if they are intended to have them or not off the top of my head.
 

James James

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Spartacus

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If it is not a daft question, what are those white panels beneath the 3rd and 4th windows of the carriages?

It does rather spoil the overall effect of what is a very nice looking train.

Thanks

Alan

Could be vents that if they're removed might damage the finish, so they're waiting for the testing to be over before finishing them.
 

FQTV

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If it is not a daft question, what are those white panels beneath the 3rd and 4th windows of the carriages?

It does rather spoil the overall effect of what is a very nice looking train.

Thanks

Alan

I’d actually also wondered about the panels above, eg, the first saloon windows, which look much larger and clumsier than they need to be for the door status lights. Likewise the box sitting on top of the DVT cab, which lacks any faring at all.

Overall, though, a handsome looking train and livery.

I was on a refurbished 185 at the weekend, too. If anyone from that project has had a hand in the Mk5 interiors, then they should be very smart and comfortable places to be, I think.
 

Spartacus

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I’d actually also wondered about the panels above, eg, the first saloon windows, which look much larger and clumsier than they need to be for the door status lights. Likewise the box sitting on top of the DVT cab, which lacks any faring at all.

The bodyside one is a little curious. My first guess would be carriage letter, which would be better than the paper letters 158s have, but as the Mk5s are going to be in fixed rakes that woudn't be much of an issue for them anyway. The Sleeper ones also seem to have it, but it's at waist level, like what I assume to be the destination screens. I'm assuming the one on the end is destination. It is behind a clear streamlined panel, I think it might be just a trick of the light which makes it appear not to be.
 

BMIFlyer

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If it is not a daft question, what are those white panels beneath the 3rd and 4th windows of the carriages?

It does rather spoil the overall effect of what is a very nice looking train.

Thanks

Alan

Probably ventilation - the original Mk5 has those too:
( http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...per-carriages-on-the-road-to-velim-media1.jpg )

And you can see the hole during construction:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGIesvwWAAAl0bi.jpg

HVAC (Air conditioning / heating) vents. The HVAC is underfloor mounted for the saloons, but in the roof for the cab.

I’d actually also wondered about the panels above, eg, the first saloon windows, which look much larger and clumsier than they need to be for the door status lights. Likewise the box sitting on top of the DVT cab, which lacks any faring at all.

Small screens are for coach letters (A,B,C,D,E from DSO to 1st class in that order - 1st class always next to loco).
Large screens are the destination panels.
Door status lights are in the centre of each vehicle.
 

61653 HTAFC

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HVAC (Air conditioning / heating) vents. The HVAC is underfloor mounted for the saloons, but in the roof for the cab.

Small screens are for coach letters (A,B,C,D,E from DSO to 1st class in that order - 1st class always next to loco).
Large screens are the destination panels.
Door status lights are in the centre of each vehicle.

Those vents look as if they're being highlighted by the sunlight in that photo, and won't seem as prominent all the time.

Regarding the formations which will obviously be pretty-much fixed, will there be provision for the 68 to run round and haul from the DTSO end if needs must? Whilst i appreciate that running round in the peak at Lime Street is unlikely, I've been on enough 91+mk4 sets that have departed correctly formed but had the loco switched to the front before Kings Cross, that it seems like something that might come in useful.
 
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