Greater Anglia sued, warrant for baliffs issued

[talldave]

They'll be after more than £350 now as there's the cost of engaging bailiffs to recover too.

It's nice when David scores against Goliath.

 

[farleigh]

Read bb21's post

 

[Clip]

That doesnt change my point though

It does though. Unless of course you can prove that aga win most of their prosecution cases through people not turning up to court

 

[MikeWh]

The East Suffolk Line timetable at Halesworth was doubled in December 2012 from two hourly to hourly with the completion of Beccles loop. Of course this means that both up and down trains have to be on time for this to work. At the Southern end services have to mix with all the Felixstowe freight, so the line isn’t the simplest to operate. Perhaps they shouldn’t have bothered and left the two hour gaps.

Cue a 5-minute wait at Beccles in both directions to ensure that the trains pass on time more often than not.

 

[farleigh]

They'll be after more than £350 now as there's the cost of engaging bailiffs to recover too.

It's nice when David scores against Goliath.

I agree.

 

[BRX]

Precisely given the UK system of precedents - not defending is less risky than defending and losing with all the subsequent follow on claims

Surely it just sets another kind of precedent - sue us and we won't defend.

 

[swj99]

Precisely given the UK system of precedents - not defending is less risky than defending and losing with all the subsequent follow on claims

Precedents are only binding on lower courts.
The county court is the lowest in the hierarchy and is therefore unable to set precedents. However a judgment in one county court may be considered to be a persuasive case by another county court judge in a similar case at a different county court location.

 

[LAX54]

From BBC



If only 26 of 550 journeys were more than 15 minutes late, I can’t see how the service can be said to have been performed without reasonable care and/or skill?

550 journeys in 363 days ! (halesworth to ipswich)

 

[Dent]

I agree with @Merseysider here - less than 4% of journeys were delayed so it appears that the TOC was meeting its performance targets. Was Mr Pochin entitled to some compensation? Yes. To the point of getting bailiffs in? That's questionable.

Where did you get that less than 4% of his journeys were delayed? This contradicts the article, which says that he made 550 journeys and recorded 183 delays. This is around 33%.

 

[MP33]

I have just checked the status of two delay repay claims with GA and they were rejected without informing me on the grounds that they do not believe there was a delay. I have appealed, and this was upheld in a previous case. On the grounds that I have to make a decision on leaving the office whether to go to Fenchurch Street and walk between the two Southend Stations and go back on myself. When most trains were cancelled or only operating a shuttle service to Shenfield this appears to be the correct option.

In all the bad weather I was only delayed by the most 15 minutes, so no claim.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Where did you get that less than 4% of his journeys were delayed? This contradicts the article, which says that he made 550 journeys and recorded 183 delays. This is around 33%.

Isn't it 4% that were over the threshold within which the railway counts them as on time? With 33% being against the right time measure?

Or have I misread something?

 

[LAX54]

Isn't it 4% that were over the threshold within which the railway counts them as on time? With 33% being against the right time measure?

Or have I misread something?

I think quite a few of the delays were 1 to 3 mins.

 

[najaB]

Where did you get that less than 4% of his journeys were delayed? This contradicts the article, which says that he made 550 journeys and recorded 183 delays. This is around 33%.

The allegation was that the GA were failing to provide the service with care, but only 4% of the journeys failed to meet their franchise obligations (i.e. failed PPM).

 

[Merseysider]

I think quite a few of the delays were 1 to 3 mins.

Indeed

 

[philthetube]

I wonder how I would get on taking the DFT to court for all the delays I suffer on the M25? Far worse that the problems this gent has.

 

[Merseysider]

I wonder how I would get on taking the DFT to court for all the delays I suffer on the M25? Far worse that the problems this gent has.

Not very well as, for a start, there’s no contract here between you and the DfT

 

[NSEFAN]

This did happen in the early(ish) days of railways. I cannot remember which railway it was now but there was one where a locomotive was chained to the track as a way to 'solve' a dispute.

That was at the Battle of Havant, a dispute between the LSWR and LBSCR companies resulting in the LBSCR chaining a locomotive to the track and even removing some rails to block LSWR trains from Guildford from accessing Portsmouth. It'd be interesting to see a train today clamped and towed (mind you, this seems to happen a lot with EMUs what with beind stored these days!)

 

[Spurs]

Isn't it 4% that were over the threshold within which the railway counts them as on time? With 33% being against the right time measure?

Or have I misread something?

Why on earth should the railway get to decide what does and doesn't count? Can I say that I don't have money for my whole fare but I'll pay 70% of it so that's okay?

 

[najaB]

Why on earth should the railway get to decide what does and doesn't count?

It's not the TOC who decides, it is the DfT (who let the franchises). But, naturally, it's easier to blame the evil railway...

 

[ASharpe]

I fail to see what DfT's contractual agreements with a TOC have to do with a consumer's agreement with the TOC.

If a there is a service run but which is not required by a franchise agreement would it be fair on consumers to deny any any of their usual rights and allow the company to cancel service at the last minute - even if consumers had bought tickets for that particular train.

 

[najaB]

I fail to see what DfT's contractual agreements with a TOC have to do with a consumer's agreement with the TOC.

The relevance is that 'on time' is defined by the DfT and passengers' compensation rights (the right to Delay Repay) are set out in the franchise agreements let by the DfT.

 

[ASharpe]

The relevance is that 'on time' is defined by the DfT and passengers' compensation rights (the right to Delay Repay) are set out in the franchise agreements let by the DfT.

Delay repay rights may be set out in the franchise agreement and provide a minimum standard at which GA must pay out. But that doesn't mean that a consumer's rights are restricted to that minimum standard.

 

[BRX]

You could change things so that delay repay paid out on a 5 minute delay. What would ne the result? Marginally more trains on time but a big rise in ticket prices to pay for it, I reckon.

 

[najaB]

But that doesn't mean that a consumer's rights are restricted to that minimum standard.

That is true. However, to be successful any claim would have to show that GA was negligent in the way they provided the service - "We met the standard we were contracted to meet" is a pretty strong argument against any such claim.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

That is true. However, to be successful any claim would have to show that GA was negligent in the way they provided the service - "We met the standard we were contracted to meet" is a pretty strong argument against any such claim.

The duty is more than just not being negligent. It's to perform the service with reasonable care and skill generally, within a reasonable time (if no timeframe is specified), and to abide by any statements or information made by them or given on their behalf (such as the timetable), assuming this has influenced the passenger's buying or travelling decision.

 

[AlterEgo]

The duty is more than just not being negligent. It's to perform the service with reasonable care and skill generally, within a reasonable time (if no timeframe is specified), and to abide by any statements or information made by them or given on their behalf (such as the timetable), assuming this has influenced the passenger's buying or travelling decision.

I think it would be difficult to argue that any delayed journey failed to meet those criteria. The majority of delay minutes are not caused by the affected TOC, for a start, and only in a minority of cases could you argue that a delay was caused by the TOC not applying reasonable care or skill.

 

[PeterC]

550 journeys in 363 days ! (halesworth to ipswich)

Which is 275 round trips.

When I was teaching database design for an IT consultancy the multiple definitions of "journey" made an excellent example of the pitfalls if unclear terminology.

 

[najaB]

It's to perform the service with reasonable care and skill generally, within a reasonable time (if no timeframe is specified), and to abide by any statements or information made by them or given on their behalf (such as the timetable), assuming this has influenced the passenger's buying or travelling decision.

The timetables I have seen say that compensation arrangements kick in at 15/30 minutes so that puts some holes in that particular argument.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The timetables I have seen say that compensation arrangements kick in at 15/30 minutes so that puts some holes in that particular argument.

Clearly, if it influenced the buying decision, the timetable is binding. But minor breaches (only a few minutes late) may be considered de minimis. So I guess it is a question of what the threshold of an actionable breach of contract is.

 

[eastdyke]

Clearly, if it influenced the buying decision, the timetable is binding. But minor breaches (only a few minutes late) may be considered de minimis. So I guess it is a question of what the threshold of an actionable breach of contract is.

But if the train is very frequently late (which appears to be the case) a court may not consider that de minimus applies to even small delays.
Further, the Consumer Rights Act allows a claim for consequential loss.
The claimant appears to be using the train for commuting to work, consequential loss could arise from lost working time for some of the more serious delays.