314 stopping short

[jamesontheroad]

Interesting event this afternoon... rushed through GLC to catch the 15.33 GLC -> Cathcart (Outer Circle) via Queens Park, inconveniently in front of two other trains on platform 10.

At Pollokshields East, the driver stopped short, between the end of the station and the junction north of it... and then opened the doors onto platform-less tracks. I was in the last car, by two ticket inspectors who only noticed it when I pointed it out. If I'd been more ensconced in the SMS I was tapping out I could have found myself crumpled on the ballast four feet below. After a few seconds the doors closed and the train pulled into the station and the doors re-opened and I cautiously got off...

Could anyone tell me if that train is booked as a six car train? I'm fairly certain it was only three cars, which makes the most obvious reason of a 6 car train stopping at the 3 car stop unlikely...

 

[O L Leigh]

Who knows. Might be best not to post too many details though, as it may prompt management to delve further into the matter and potentially land the driver in bother.

O L Leigh

 

[Railjet]

Who knows. Might be best not to post too many details though, as it may prompt management to delve further into the matter and potentially land the driver in bother.

O L Leigh

And that is a problem because .... exactly?

The driver might get punished for a potentially life-threatening incident?

 

[37401]

The driver might get punished for a potentially life-threatening incident?

Well yes, I was once told "everyone makes a mistake" the driver just made his today thats all

 

[90019]

Well yes, I was once told "everyone makes a mistake" the driver just made his today thats all

That doesn't mean that someone should just be let off.

 

[chappers]

The likliehood is it will crop up in the National Incident Log in the morning. There are a couple of station overruns/openning doors outside of platforms every day. So the driver will be screened or interviewed.

 

[AlexS]

Who knows. Might be best not to post too many details though, as it may prompt management to delve further into the matter and potentially land the driver in bother.

O L Leigh

Overshooting the station? Aye, OK.

Stopping short and opening the train doors? Sorry, doesn't wash.

 

[Bittern]

It shouldn't make much difference if it was a 6 car train or a 3 car train. I'm on the Cathcart Circle very often and in the peak hours, one of the trains I get is a 6 car. Never underran or overran any stations.

Although, a few days ago, the doors of a 318 closed on a woman who was trying to get out.

Plus a 318 driver did something similar at Argyle Street. Then he closed the doors and the train moved properly into the station. Everyone thought the train was departing.

 

[37401]

That doesn't mean that someone should just be let off.

True, but if the driver is used to 3 cars and it was his first 6 car then it could of just been "force of habbit"

 

[90019]

True, but if the driver is used to 3 cars and it was his first 6 car then it could of just been "force of habbit"

So?

If people's lives are put at risk, why should it just be ignored if it was considered a mistake?

 

[37401]

So?

If people's lives are put at risk, why should it just be ignored if it was considered a mistake?

aye true indeed, im guessing the doors that opened were opposite from the track?

 

[MCR247]

Either way someone could of broken some bones, and possibly worse

 

[dan_atki]

I guess, under schedule 1(9) of the RAIB guidelines:

1(9) Accidents or incidents which could have lead to deaths or serious injuries or 2m euros worth of damage to trains, infrastructure or environment, but did not do so. If in doubt notify.

that they'll be investigating the incident as it should have been reported immediately... Whether Scotrail have reported it, though, is another matter, and I'm not aware of the sanction for not reporting an incident, presuming one exists.

 

[bluenoxid]

So?

If people's lives are put at risk, why should it just be ignored if it was considered a mistake?

Your Honour

What my client meant to say is that he was trying to avoid a bunch of frothy trainspotters arguing about an incident and conducting their own trial of the driver without the proper facts. Now unless I am mistaken your honour but I am sure that trainspotters don't have their own law making abilities.

Yeah these things do happen but the worst that would happen is a few crumpled messes on the ballast four feet below. It is likely that the incident will have been picked up through it's various means but conducting some form of discussion about the incident based on just one story of a passenger is unlikely to achieve much apart from confirm to most people that most of you really don't have a clue about the rail industry and it is the reason why many of you won't be working in it.

 

[O L Leigh]

My point was that it is hard to decipher from what the OP posted precisely what happened. For instance, a quick shuftie at Google Maps shows a junction south of Pollockshields East, not north. So precisely where did the train stop? Was it half into the platform or not? Was it stopped at a signal outside the station or somewhere else? It's impossible to tell.

If the driver f***ed up then management will be quick enough to drag him/her over the coals for it without outside assistance. Unfortunately I am disinclined to look favourably on folk posting information that could incriminate a member of staff on a publicly accessible forum, especially where the precise facts of the matter are unclear.

O L Leigh

 

[jamesontheroad]

My point was that it is hard to decipher from what the OP posted precisely what happened. For instance, a quick shuftie at Google Maps shows a junction south of Pollockshields East, not north. So precisely where did the train stop? Was it half into the platform or not? Was it stopped at a signal outside the station or somewhere else? It's impossible to tell.

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=55.841,-4.269&ie=UTF8&ll=55.841383,-4.268387&spn=0.001476,0.003449&z=18

It was the junction north of Pollokshields East station, where the Queens Park bound Cathcart Circle lines diverge from the lines heading towards Pollokshields West or Crossmyloof. On the satellite view that's just north of the Albert Drive bridge.

I'm not a litigious man, and I would not want to see a driver punished for this incident, but I would want the incident publicised amongst staff so that the ease with which something like this can happen is reduced. If I landed on the ballast I would blame no-one but myself: I deeply detest the way in which some people (esp. iPod users etc) can walk the streets without noticing what's going on around them </rant>

Incidentally, this has happened to me before. I took an AMT commuter train west out of Montréal in Canada a few years ago, on the line towards Dorian-Rigaud. At Île-Perrot our train completely overshot the station, the doors unlocked and people gamely jumped down onto the trackside and walked back between the train and the vegetation to the platform. At that time I was also in a carriage with ticket inspectors, and they didn't even bat an eyelid that time... at least in Scotland one of them thought to go back to the non-driving cab to communicate with the driver

Veering off-topic: a video of your average scene at Île-Perrot... wouldn't we all like to live in a country where suburban and intercity trains have that kind of locomotive haulage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QechxrcwVhA

 

[TDK]

And that is a problem because .... exactly?

The driver might get punished for a potentially life-threatening incident?

So you overtake me on the motorway I am doing 70mph, you are doing over 90 say. Do I call the police or video you, you are in fact risking the lives of yourself and others? This is what this post is to me? OK, you may not speed or do anything wrong in your whole life. Things like this on forums really Pee me off. Admittedly the driver has made a mistake and potentially created a risk and should be spoken to about it, but this sort of reporting of drivers on an enthusiasts forum are not acceptable. Do you agree O.L. Leigh being a fellow driver?

 

[16CSVT2700]

Being staff at a fairly busy station myself I've seen a lot of things which shouldn't have happened but having a quiet word with the person involved usually goes down well.

The fact that alot of things spotters experience such as this immediately get posted on the internet can lead to various disciplinary measures against that member of staff.

Personally I'm in total agreement with O L Leigh.
Leave it alone

 

[The Snap]

Being staff at a fairly busy station myself I've seen a lot of things which shouldn't have happened but having a quiet word with the person involved usually goes down well.

The fact that alot of things spotters experience such as this immediately get posted on the internet can lead to various disciplinary measures against that member of staff.

Personally I'm in total agreement with O L Leigh.
Leave it alone

I totally agree with that. No need to go around publicising a relatively minor incident which could lead to serious consequences for there driver.

The chances of injury from falling from the unit in question are low. Unless you are completely stupid, you've got to be quite literally blind to fall out of open doors leading to a 5 foot drop!

 

[jamesontheroad]

The chances of injury from falling from the unit in question are low. Unless you are completely stupid, you've got to be quite literally blind to fall out of open doors leading to a 5 foot drop!

Funny you should say that. On today's journey home, I shared my carriage with a blind man who was using a sight stick.

 

[Bittern]

Veering off-topic: a video of your average scene at Île-Perrot... wouldn't we all like to live in a country where suburban and intercity trains have that kind of locomotive haulage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QechxrcwVhA

I'm definitely glad I don't.

 

[90019]

Veering off-topic: a video of your average scene at Île-Perrot... wouldn't we all like to live in a country where suburban and intercity trains have that kind of locomotive haulage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QechxrcwVhA

No, because all the enthusiasts would complain about the coaches on the first train (Comet/Horizon/Shoreliner) because of the small windows.

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm not a litigious man, and I would not want to see a driver punished for this incident, but I would want the incident publicised amongst staff so that the ease with which something like this can happen is reduced. If I landed on the ballast I would blame no-one but myself: I deeply detest the way in which some people (esp. iPod users etc) can walk the streets without noticing what's going on around them </rant>

Incidents like this are made known within the grade as and when they happen. We get reminders all the time about stopping at the wrong point along the platform and all manner of other potential incidents.

While I understand you motive, I don't believe it is for a member of the public like yourself to be policing this, or that a publicly accessible forum is the best place to be placing details. Every driver knows already what the risks are and will have their own ways of guarding against an incident. Unfortunately, mistakes happen.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

Is there any other industry where members of the public are discouraged from highlighting safety issues or telling anyone about it?

What about airlines?

 

[curly42]

Incidents like this are made known within the grade as and when they happen. We get reminders all the time about stopping at the wrong point along the platform and all manner of other potential incidents.

While I understand you motive, I don't believe it is for a member of the public like yourself to be policing this, or that a publicly accessible forum is the best place to be placing details. Every driver knows already what the risks are and will have their own ways of guarding against an incident. Unfortunately, mistakes happen.

O L Leigh

It's not that often that I find myself in agreement with O L's postings but I'm with him 100% on this one.Best to let it just go.

 

[O L Leigh]

Is there any other industry where members of the public are discouraged from highlighting safety issues or telling anyone about it?

What about airlines?

If you really feel you must, why not contact the TOC directly giving full details of the incident. Posting it onto an internet forum is not the way to deal with safety issues.

In the spirit of reciprocal responsibility, where do I report you when you make a mistake at work?

O L Leigh

 

[ukrob]

Mixed thoughts on this one.

Failing to stop at a station is annoying but not dangerous.

Slightly overshooting a station and then drawing back is not dangerous (generally).

Neither of which are something which would bother me.

This is something totally different.

It didn't occur to me that is might have been a DOO service - can anyone confirm?

 

[curly42]

If you really feel you must, why not contact the TOC directly giving full details of the incident. Posting it onto an internet forum is not the way to deal with safety issues.

In the spirit of reciprocal responsibility, where do I report you when you make a mistake at work?

O L Leigh

... and here's another post where he's spot on.That's twice in one day I agree with him - something of a record.

 

[O L Leigh]

UKRob: I'm sure it bothers the driver too. I expect that, having made this mistake, he/she will be much more aware of the risks and make sure that it doesn't happen again. Talk to any driver who has had a SPAD and they'll all tell you the same thing.

Curly42: I know that being staff means I often have a different perspective on things, but I'm feeling particularly lucid tonight. I'll take the compliment, though.

O L Leigh

 

[ukrob]

Mixed thoughts on this one.

Failing to stop at a station is annoying but not dangerous.

Slightly overshooting a station and then drawing back is not dangerous (generally).

Neither of which are something which would bother me.

This is something totally different.

It didn't occur to me that is might have been a DOO service - can anyone confirm?

UKRob: I'm sure it bothers the driver too. I expect that, having made this mistake, he/she will be much more aware of the risks and make sure that it doesn't happen again. Talk to any driver who has had a SPAD and they'll all tell you the same thing.

O L Leigh

I should have been clearer - what I meant is the first two examples wouldn't bother me. This example would and the TOC would be contacted, but not posted about in public.

For all we know it may not be the first recent incident with the driver concerned. However it isn't fair to speculate about it in public.