HST - alternate traction

[alexl92]

Last year, I asked whether BR Mk4 sets had ever been hauled by anything other than Classes 89, 90 and 91. Turns out that 47s, 31s and 67s have also done their bit in the past.

This time I am interested to know whether a class 43 HST power car has ever been replaced in service at one end (or both?) with anything other than a class 41 (prototype), or the 91s used when the 43s were modified after the 91s’ introduction?

I imagine the answer is no - but kinda hope I’m wrong!

 

[Ash Bridge]

I stand to be corrected on this but during (I think) the late 1980s mk3 HST trailer car sets were occasionally pressed into passenger service on the Great Western mainline using a class 47 or 50 as motive power, the 3 phase 415VAC electric train supply was provided by a generator car converted from a mk1 BG vehicle, I don't think it ever ran with a power car still attached to the rear though.

 

[hexagon789]

I stand to be corrected on this but during (I think) the late 1980s mk3 HST trailer car sets were occasionally pressed into passenger service on the Great Western mainline using a class 47 or 50 as motive power, the 3 phase 415VAC electric train supply was provided by a generator car converted from a mk1 BG vehicle, I don't think it ever ran with a power car still attached to the rear though.

That's the only occasion I can think of. Unless you count two prototype HST trailers (essentially loco-hauled stock) formed as part of a train hauled by a Deltic in the early '70s?

 

[Cowley]

I stand to be corrected on this but during (I think) the late 1980s mk3 HST trailer car sets were occasionally pressed into passenger service on the Great Western mainline using a class 47 or 50 as motive power, the 3 phase 415VAC electric train supply was provided by a generator car converted from a mk1 BG vehicle, I don't think it ever ran with a power car still attached to the rear though.

Absolutely right, I remember having runs on Gen sets a few times.

 

[Ash Bridge]

That's the only occasion I can think of. Unless you count two prototype HST trailers (essentially loco-hauled stock) formed as part of a train hauled by a Deltic in the early '70s?

Yes I actually remember seeing those in service at York during around 1973, I also saw them on West Coast electric hauled services too ( see picture below taken at Stockport, fourth coach in formation ) but like you say they were as hauled stock with standard ETH.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Absolutely right, I remember having runs on Gen sets a few times.

Interesting, what was the traction at the time Mr C?

 

[hexagon789]

Interesting, what was the traction at the time Mr C?

I'd be interested to know as well, a 47 or 50 perhaps?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Interesting, what was the traction at the time Mr C?

When I saw them either a 47 (didn't have to be a 47/4, as the generator car supplied the coaches) or a 50. I've some photos somewhere that I posted over on RMWeb.
Generator car one end, and a Mk2 coach or a BG the other, so that a non-buckeye loco could couple, as the HST Mk3s were bufferless.
Edit: I also noted one working with a pair of 31s. See the thread here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...kings-intoout-of-london-mid-late-1980s/page-1
(generator van info from page 2 of the thread)

And here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83483-br-ic125-barrier-coach-formations/

 

[hexagon789]

When I saw them either a 47 (didn't have to be a 47/4, as the generator car supplied the coaches) or a 50. I've some photos somewhere that I posted over on RMWeb.
Generator car one end, and a Mk2 coach the other.
Edit: I also noted one working with a pair of 31s. See the thread here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...kings-intoout-of-london-mid-late-1980s/page-1
(generator van info from page 2 of the thread)

Thanks for the link

 

[Ash Bridge]

When I saw them either a 47 (didn't have to be a 47/4, as the generator car supplied the coaches) or a 50. I've some photos somewhere that I posted over on RMWeb.
Generator car one end, and a Mk2 coach or a BG the other, so that a non-buckeye loco could couple, as the HST Mk3s were bufferless.
Edit: I also noted one working with a pair of 31s. See the thread here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...kings-intoout-of-london-mid-late-1980s/page-1
(generator van info from page 2 of the thread)

And here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83483-br-ic125-barrier-coach-formations/

Many thanks for this, I'd read a lot about the so called 'Generator Set' back in the day but never managed to see it either in the flesh or on film.

 

[hexagon789]

Many thanks for this, I'd read a lot about the so called 'Generator Set' back in the day but never managed to see it either in the flesh or on film.

I've seen a photo of the 'Genny' Mk1 BG but never a set nor a set hauled by a loco.

 

[Cowley]

Interesting, what was the traction at the time Mr C?

Yes as eastwest says, travelled on them a few times behind 47s, but I seem to remember seeing 50s on them more often - maybe because it was quickly rustled up by Laira?

 

[hexagon789]

Yes as eastwest says, travelled on them a few times behind 47s, but I seem to remember seeing 50s on them more often - maybe because it was quickly rusted up by Laira?

Presumably whatever was at hand

 

[eastwestdivide]

I think the workings with the generator car tended to be the short Paddington-Bristol runs, where they might lose less time.

 

[hexagon789]

I think the workings with the generator car tended to be the short Paddington-Bristol runs, where they might lose less time.

Seems logical, seeing as it was/is only 125 to is it Chippenham or Bath?

 

[xotGD]

I have vague memories of a set with a generator van operating on cross-country services back in the day, but I don't recall whether it was a set of HST trailers or some other coaching stock.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Funnily enough, there was a YouTube video linked to in a recent class 89 thread (or it may have been the sickly 91 thread) showing 89001 running with HST trailers and a generator van.

 

[hexagon789]

Funnily enough, there was a YouTube video linked to in a recent class 89 thread (or it may have been the sickly 91 thread) showing 89001 running with HST trailers and a generator van.

Interesting, I take it was a thread on this forum? I'd be interested to see the video.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Interesting, I take it was a thread on this forum? I'd be interested to see the video.

Yes, this site... Found it in my YouTube history:

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, this site... Found it in my YouTube history:

Thank you very much

 

[route:oxford]

Yes, this site... Found it in my YouTube history:

Impressive accelration by the 89.

It would be good to see it back in service.

 

[BeHereNow]

It still looks modern (as does the livery) after all these years.

 

[hexagon789]

Impressive accelration by the 89.

It would be good to see it back in service.

Particularly in GNER colours

 

[hexagon789]

It still looks modern (as does the livery) after all these years.

I like the double streamlined end, it gives it a faster sort of look/image than the 91s.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I like the double streamlined end, it gives it a faster sort of look/image than the 91s.

Yes, the Class 91 when first launched looked absolutely cutting edge with its angular looks, the thing is (for me at least) it dated very quickly. The 89 follows the more rounded appearance similar to the HST Powercars and this has definitely proved to be the more timeless design, btw I have to agree with BeHereNow regarding IC Swallow livery, that too still cuts it for me against anything since privatisation.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, the Class 91 when first launched looked absolutely cutting edge with its angular looks, the thing is (for me at least) it dated very quickly. The 89 follows the more rounded appearance similar to the HST Powercars and this has definitely proved to be the more timeless design, btw I have to agree with BeHereNow regarding IC Swallow livery, that too still cuts it for me against anything since privatisation.

The "Badgers" always remind me of the prototype HST power cars a bit, the noses are similar with the buffers and all.

 

[randyrippley]

back to the original question..........I'm sure I've read of occasions where an HST with only a single power car has had a 37 attached to provide braking on the Devon banks. Presumably it would need a barrier coach to couple to the HST set?

 

[hexagon789]

back to the original question..........I'm sure I've read of occasions where an HST with only a single power car has had a 37 attached to provide braking on the Devon banks. Presumably it would need a barrier coach to couple to the HST set?

Could they not maybe have used the emergency coupling?

 

[randyrippley]

Could they not maybe have used the emergency coupling?

if the 37 was attached to the power car yes, but I understand on some occasions they were on the back of an HST set in place of a power car, obviously not remotely controlled. Presumably that would need a barrier coach

 

[hexagon789]

if the 37 was attached to the power car yes, but I understand on some occasions they were on the back of an HST set in place of a power car, obviously not remotely controlled. Presumably that would need a barrier coach

Ah, I was thinking if the 37 was leading.