Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[northernchris]

The Huddersfield-Wakefield Westgate is being cut back to Kirkgate to save a unit, however there is a (tight) connection for Westgate with the new Knottingley-Wakefield-Leeds service

The Calder Valley throws up a few surprises. Leeds-Preston gains calls at Bramley, Sowerby Bridge and Mytholmroyd whilst the Huddersfield-Bradford-Leeds loses the Bramley call. Disappointing that Low Moor hasn't gained a 30 minute service though. Also looks like Manchester Victoria-Selby will be self contained, with the Manchester Victoria-York being linked in with York-Huddersfield, Huddersfield-Leeds and Leeds - Manchester Victoria.

 

[Loop & Link]

It’s a shame to a slight reduction in services on the City Line at peak time e.g: Huyton to Liverpool.

Service now:

08:01, 08:14, 08:19, 08:27, 08:34, 08:42.

From May:

08:10, 08:13, 08:22, 08:40, 08:54.

Obviously there has to be room for the new TPE path, but seems to me like a worse spread of services.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The Skipton Lancaster line was allegedly meant to get improvements, but that seems not to be the case - the service is even more erratic than now.

Departures from Lancaster:

Now - 0707 1049 1349 1605 (via MCM) 1924

May - 0648 1045 1245 1745 2030 2134

Departures from Skipton:

Now - 0541 0855 1100 1401 1725

May - 0522 0856 1057 1458 1808 2000

So yes, there is an extra evening train, but at the expense of a worse daytime service which now has a 4 or 5 hour gap in services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think overall those times are more useful, though, in particular a 1745 departure from Lancaster which will make the service useful for office-based and smaller retail-based commuters, whereas the previous service was utterly useless for that purpose with 1605 being too early and 1924 way too late. Similarly an 1808 in the other direction is probably a bit better for most. Though the morning train from the Skipton end is a bit too early for that purpose and could do with being maybe an hour later.

Of course what would be *really* nice would be a 2 hourly regular interval service in connection with the S&C.

 

[Greybeard33]

I notice the unit off the second morning Chester to Stockport is still going to do an ECS to Hazel Grove and then run a service to Manchester at 09:10, despite the fact they'll be a 323 operated service at 09:21!

The unit off the second morning Chester to Stockport currently runs ECS direct to Newton Heath.

But the first Chester to Stockport, which is the one that currently goes ECS to Hazel Grove, is instead going to turn round and form a contra-peak 0818 "schoolkids extra" back to Chester (Altrincham 0835, Hale 0838, Knutsford 0850 - a bit late for the Academy!) I believe the MCRUA has long been pressing for such an enhancement?

 

[Bovverboy]

The unit off the second morning Chester to Stockport currently runs ECS direct to Newton Heath.

But the first Chester to Stockport, which is the one that currently goes ECS to Hazel Grove, is instead going to turn round and form a contra-peak 0818 "schoolkids extra" back to Chester (Altrincham 0835, Hale 0838, Knutsford 0850 - a bit late for the Academy!) I believe the MCRUA has long been pressing for such an enhancement?

That's right, from May it's going to be the second ex-Chester terminator which is going to double back to Hazel Grove, to do 0910 Hazel Grove - Piccadilly. It then should be 0948 Piccadilly - Buxton, so I presume it is going to be a double sprinter throughout.
The 0910 will be only eleven minutes in front of the next (EMU-operated) service, the stock for which should be already lurking in the siding when the DMU comes and goes.
The weekly service to Stalybridge is going to be 0945 SO ex-Stockport Platform 3A. There doesn't appear to be a preceding journey for it loaded at the moment.

Greybeard: It's good to see you're still around.

 

[notlob.divad]

Ouch, hadn't looked further down the line, but if that is the case that is pretty poor. I see a few regulars on the current services who are doing Preston to Adlington in particular.

Looks like all change at Chorley, if heading from the smaller stations towards Preston. A couple of peak time through trains,

It’s a shame to a slight reduction in services on the City Line at peak time e.g: Huyton to Liverpool.

Service now:

08:01, 08:14, 08:19, 08:27, 08:34, 08:42.

From May:

08:10, 08:13, 08:22, 08:40, 08:54.

Obviously there has to be room for the new TPE path, but seems to me like a worse spread of services.

The current 08:34, is the semi-fast from Manchester Airport that during the peaks Northern add stops to. As they will no longer run this service, via Chat Moss, they cannot stop and TPE have no requirements to serve other stations. Currently in the peaks Huyton gets the 4 all stops (2 St. Helens, 1 Manchester and 1 Wigan via Newton), plus the semi-fasts from both Blackpool and Manchester Airport.

That said, at 09:34 there is a scheduled Warrington Bank Quay stopper, so there is the possibility that the 08:34 has still not yet been put in.

 

[MancMetro]

Not too impressed with morning peak changes on the Marple via Bredbury line. Currently 4 trains call at Reddish North between 8-9am (0812, 0842, 0848, 0859), but in future there'll be 3 (0803, 0811, 0845). I can see the 0845 being standing room only compared to the more lightly loaded trains at present.

 

[Grannyjoans]

Latest news -

Blackpool to Manchester Airport hourly will now run via Wigan NW and Golborne Jct, instead of Chorley, from May timetable change. Traction to be Class 319 and will release several 156's to facilitate the increase in services on other lines.

 

[hibtastic]

I see that AM Peak Staybridge to Piccadilly services will be at:

0625 (TPE from York)
0637 (Northern from Huddersfield)
0652 (TPE from Huddersfield)
0721 (TPE from Hull)
0740 (Northern from Huddersfield)
0752 (TPE from Leeds)
0823 (TPE from Hull)
0838 (Northern from Huddersfield)
0852 (TPE from Leeds)
0930 (TPE from Hull)

and the PM Peak Piccadilly to Staybridge services will be at:

1559 (TPE to Hull)
1615 (Northern to Huddersfield)
1629 (TPE to Leeds)
1659 (TPE to Hull)
1713 (Northern to Huddersfield)
1729 (TPE to Leeds)
1759 (TPE to Hull)
1815 (Northern to Huddersfield)
1829 (TPE to Leeds)
1859 (TPE to Hull)

Seems like a good improvement for Staybridge to Piccadilly commuters, especially with the extra Northern services and hopefully eventually doubled up 185s on the Leeds and Hull routes in the peaks.

 

[geoffk]

I can see there being some angry passengers, especially as the Manchester departures from Cheadle Hulme are xx:24 (from Crewe) and xx:37 (from Stoke.)

Also a departure at xx:00 (Alderley Edge - Piccadilly - Wigan), so three per hour as now.

 

[geoffk]

It will be very unpopular cutting Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel down from 4 to 3 services per hour too. There are some very significant cuts or reductions in quality as a result of this timetable change, no denying it.

According to RTT, Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel will have four an hour going south (one each to Crewe, Buxton, Hazel Grove and Alderley Edge) but only three going north (one from Stoke and two from Buxton). Stopping the Alderley Edge train coming north would fill the long gap.

 

[Confused147]

Whose idea was it to have the 1258 Stoke to Manchester skip Stockport?

And no Blackpool services to Macclesfield either? Or the half hourly service which was promised on that line.

 

[mikeg]

I'm assuming all of the Sunday services have been put in. For my local station (Thirsk) the weekday timetable is an improvement, still the Saturday Northbound service finishes a bit too early. The major problem is how will I get into work on a Sunday. There is no longer the early southbound TPE departure from Newcastle, which is a real problem. I mean good that there's a slightly earlier service from Middlesbrough now but it arrives in Thirsk over half an hour later than the current first Southbound. Given that the first Sunday southbound was always quite busy it does seem a bit madness from a commercial perspective, as well as causing me great inconvenience. I though Sunday services were up for improvement under the new TPE franchise.

Oh well time to have a word with my line manager I think.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I think overall those times are more useful, though, in particular a 1745 departure from Lancaster which will make the service useful for office-based and smaller retail-based commuters, whereas the previous service was utterly useless for that purpose with 1605 being too early and 1924 way too late. Similarly an 1808 in the other direction is probably a bit better for most. Though the morning train from the Skipton end is a bit too early for that purpose and could do with being maybe an hour later.

Of course what would be *really* nice would be a 2 hourly regular interval service in connection with the S&C.

Whilst 1745 may be useful for office or shop workers, there is no train in the morning to get you to work in the first place, so fairly pointless.

1745 is 5 hours from the previous train and not a good time for any shoppers or day trippers, especially families, who won't want to be too late back home for tea, sorting the kids out etc.

It's an absolutely bonkers timetable.

In addition there is also no train back towards West Yorkshire etc from Heysham now, and no sensible connection either. This necessitates further changes at Preston (for which some tickets aren't valid) or a 4 hour or so wait in Lancaster.

 

[splashoutradio]

Whose idea was it to have the 1258 Stoke to Manchester skip Stockport?

This may well be an error which will be ironed out at a later date.

There's a common held belief that way back when, when the railway companies of the time were obtaining permission to build Stockport Viaduct, an act of Parliment was passed which meant all passenger trains that traversed the viaduct had to make a passenger call at the station, thereby not skipping the station at the convenience of the more lucrative Manchester market. Cross Country were caught out by this several years ago when they tried to withdraw Stockport as a calling point for around half of their services. Needless to say, several pages of timetabling amendments were issued when a local MP pointed this out.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That Stockport Viaduct carry on turned out to be false didn't it? XC continued to have half of their Sunday services not call for nearly a decade, and several trains a day from various Tocs still omit the call there. If they don't fit in the timetable, they don't fit in the timetable...

 

[yorksrob]

Whilst 1745 may be useful for office or shop workers, there is no train in the morning to get you to work in the first place, so fairly pointless.

1745 is 5 hours from the previous train and not a good time for any shoppers or day trippers, especially families, who won't want to be too late back home for tea, sorting the kids out etc.

It's an absolutely bonkers timetable.

In addition there is also no train back towards West Yorkshire etc from Heysham now, and no sensible connection either. This necessitates further changes at Preston (for which some tickets aren't valid) or a 4 hour or so wait in Lancaster.

It does seem bonkers to have a five hour gap in the middle of the day. Is this just a result of trying to do it with only two units for the time being, whereas it will improve when new units arrive ?

Perhaps they should just stick with the later departures, which can more or less be added onto the existing timetable.

I note that from the Leeds direction, the service remains fairly evenly spread, which is more relevant to my own travel patterns.

 

[Bantamzen]

Another oddity I've noticed in the timetable is this one, 15:51 Leeds - Barrow-in-Furness on weekdays (and only this one in this direction)!!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y22791/2018/06/08/advanced

Presumably this is to facilitate stock moves, but has there ever been such a service before?

 

[pdq]

At what point will these changes be generally communicated? There are bound to be some passengers who travel from Batley to stations on the Calder Valley line who will now have longer journeys involving a change. I'm sure there are a few that travel to Brighouse - their journey times will increase slightly with a change at Huddersfield; anyone going to Hebden Bridge or beyond now has a 30 minute wait at Mirfield.

Also, will Batley now become a TPE managed station, or will it remain with Northern but with just one Northern train a day calling there (the 0534 to Wigan).

 

[Bantamzen]

At what point will these changes be generally communicated? There are bound to be some passengers who travel from Batley to stations on the Calder Valley line who will now have longer journeys involving a change. I'm sure there are a few that travel to Brighouse - their journey times will increase slightly with a change at Huddersfield; anyone going to Hebden Bridge or beyond now has a 30 minute wait at Mirfield.

Also, will Batley now become a TPE managed station, or will it remain with Northern but with just one Northern train a day calling there (the 0534 to Wigan).

The expected date from further up this thread was 07/04 I believe. As for Batley I would imagine that it will change hands on or before the timetable changes.

 

[yorksrob]

Another oddity I've noticed in the timetable is this one, 15:51 Leeds - Barrow-in-Furness on weekdays (and only this one in this direction)!!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y22791/2018/06/08/advanced

Presumably this is to facilitate stock moves, but has there ever been such a service before?

There are various 153's that attach to Leeds services, presumably for stock movements (generally locked OOU). Perhaps this is being officialised.

 

[yorksrob]

At what point will these changes be generally communicated? There are bound to be some passengers who travel from Batley to stations on the Calder Valley line who will now have longer journeys involving a change. I'm sure there are a few that travel to Brighouse - their journey times will increase slightly with a change at Huddersfield; anyone going to Hebden Bridge or beyond now has a 30 minute wait at Mirfield.

Also, will Batley now become a TPE managed station, or will it remain with Northern but with just one Northern train a day calling there (the 0534 to Wigan).

The West Yorkshire Metro timetable would be the ideal format in which to advertise such changes (had they not discontinued it last year).

 

[Mathew S]

The expected date from further up this thread was 07/04 I believe. As for Batley I would imagine that it will change hands on or before the timetable changes.

The changes already appear in journey planners (eg NRE) and anyone who signed up to be notified will, aiui, receive an email late this week (Saturday I think). Given the changes, I'd expect a significant amount of local press coverage, as well as lots of hype about improvements from Northern & TPE online and through posters at stations.

 

[Paceman]

The Skipton Lancaster line was allegedly meant to get improvements, but that seems not to be the case - the service is even more erratic than now.

Departures from Lancaster:

Now - 0707 1049 1349 1605 (via MCM) 1924

May - 0648 1045 1245 1745 2030 2134

Departures from Skipton:

Now - 0541 0855 1100 1401 1725

May - 0522 0856 1057 1458 1808 2000

So yes, there is an extra evening train, but at the expense of a worse daytime service which now has a 4 or 5 hour gap in services.

Maybe it hasn't been completely loaded in yet.

 

[175001]

Another one way service of note is a Buxton to Manchester Victoria via the chord.

Also there's an early morning Manchester Airport to Preston....calling at Manchester Victoria and reversing there!

 

[pemma]

The unit off the second morning Chester to Stockport currently runs ECS direct to Newton Heath.

But the first Chester to Stockport, which is the one that currently goes ECS to Hazel Grove, is instead going to turn round and form a contra-peak 0818 "schoolkids extra" back to Chester (Altrincham 0835, Hale 0838, Knutsford 0850 - a bit late for the Academy!) I believe the MCRUA has long been pressing for such an enhancement?

Yes I know it's currently the first one that goes to Hazel Grove and it'll become the second one but I'm surprised there's any need for an extra DMU service from Hazel Grove to Manchester, once an EMU has been allocated for a shuttle service, especially considering the extra service will be 10 minutes ahead of the EMU shuttle.

You might recall pre-December 2008 the arrivals from Manchester at Knutsford in the morning peak were something like 07:20, 08:20, 08:59 before they went to a standard pattern of 4 minutes past the hour starting at 10:04. When the 08:20 was pushed back to 08:00 it made it less convenient for both schoolkids and commuters. Since then the number of Radbrooke Hall commuters has gone up and faith school subsided transport has been withdrawn, which means there's over 100 from Mobberley, Knutsford and Lostock going to Greenbank for St Nicholas High. I agree with current school start times that it'll be the 08:24 arrival in Knutsford which will be used by the majority of Knutsford Academy pupils but the 08:51 will mean some commuters will have to have a lie in and spread out passengers a bit more.

 

[pemma]

And no Blackpool services to Macclesfield either? Or the half hourly service which was promised on that line.

Pushing ahead with Macclesfield to Blackpool when the wires aren't ready and there's a DMU shortage would be madness.

 

[pemma]

Also a departure at xx:00 (Alderley Edge - Piccadilly - Wigan), so three per hour as now.

Ah yes, for some reason that didn't show up before when I applied a filter.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Another one way service of note is a Buxton to Manchester Victoria via the chord.
Also there's an early morning Manchester Airport to Preston....calling at Manchester Victoria and reversing there!

Plus an unexpected Ellesmere Port-Manchester Victoria evening through service.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y22771/2018/05/21/advanced