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Suggestions for where new flyovers/diveunders should be built to replace 'flat' junctions

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theageofthetra

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North Kent East. Should have been considered during LB rebuild but now too late as former derilict areas around it full of new housing.
 
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Forgive my ignorance, but the north Kent east junction is immediately West of Deptford isn’t it?

What difference would it make to Greenwich line services if that junction was grade separated? Would it turn it into a proper metro service with trains running every five minutes at regular intervals for example?
 

The Planner

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My personal choice would be Werrington, north of Peterborough, Colwich, Euxton and Doncaster South between the Sheffield & east Coast Lines and Doncaster North between the East Coast and North Lincolnshire lines.
Werrington is in development and "should" start soon.
 

theageofthetra

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Forgive my ignorance, but the north Kent east junction is immediately West of Deptford isn’t it?

What difference would it make to Greenwich line services if that junction was grade separated? Would it turn it into a proper metro service with trains running every five minutes at regular intervals for example?

Wait until new Thameslink services in May block the up lines due to poor planning & given priority.
 

JohnR

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I'm not proposing it now (for obvious reasons), but its interesting that at one time the LSW had plans to build a flying junction over the southern approaches to Exeter St. Davids. Thus avoiding the conflict with down GW trains (which used Platform 1).
 

yorksrob

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I wonder whether a flyover North of Northallerton might provide increased capacity on the ECML, given the number of services heading towards Thornaby - or if trains would just catch up to the next bottleneck quicker.
 

Kite159

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I wonder whether a flyover North of Northallerton might provide increased capacity on the ECML, given the number of services heading towards Thornaby - or if trains would just catch up to the next bottleneck quicker.

Or see if platforms can be installed on the current freight "Northallerton avoiding" lines for those services which head towards Eaglescliffe
 

Bald Rick

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Rugby remodelling wasn't grade separation as such, but reconfigured the layout to make better use of the grade separation already there

I wondered about that, especially as the south flyovers were partially rebuilt.

The Proof House Junction re-modelling at Birmingham also made much better use of the existing grade separations.

Agreed, I should have remembered (seeing as I was doing it!)

Several effective grade separations around the London Overground from Highbury to Clapham Junction via Surrey Quays, albeit with several busier flat junctions too.

I didn’t count those as they were on a ‘new’ line.

You could say that what we've had recently is Airport Jn II and III.

I guess you could!
 

pompeyfan

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If we’re throwing money everywhere, I’d grade separate Havant, and put an extra island platform in the through road so that you could have 2 arrivals at once into Havant.

If I’m being serious it’s another vote for woking, particularly I like the proposed plan on page 1, that said I only think it’s worth doing at the same time Guildford is remodelled. The lack of full Bi-Di working at Guildford is painfully obvious, in fact you could reasonably fly over from the ascot line, into the sidings and then into the current platforms 2/3 and then have another cross over just after Shawford junction, that way you could have a Redhill service depart on the down while a down Portsmouth service departs on the up. Possible a solution looking for a problem, but I definitely think that all platforms need to be accessible from all directions within reason.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Herne Hill - (segregating the ex Blackfriars moves towards / from Tulse Hill) - no chance now with the developments nearby , plus the gentrification of the area in the last 20 years.
 

Lucan

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.... it’s another vote for woking, particularly I like the proposed plan on page 1
I've just seen that plan, and the idea of making the existing Down Slow platform into an island looks practical. It already has a bay at the down end.

Woking is an interesting example of a town planning disaster. The junction was originally built in the middle of empty heathland (there was a Woking village a couple of miles to the south, now "Old Woking"). It was intended to build a town to the south of the line, so that is where the main station entrance and offices were placed. Meanwhile, as the builders and planners took their time, unofficial buildings sprung up on the north side along what were then several rough trackways converging on the spot (now Chobham Rd, Chersey Rd etc). The north side unintentionally became the town centre, and the south side became residential.. Today the entrance on the town side from the High Street is just a "mousehole" in the wall along the back of the Up Slow platform.

I see in the Google Street view that this situation has been brilliantly mocked by the painting of a mural on this wall showing a grand station entrance with a row of shops on each side, like there should have been, complete with the LSWR coat of arms is that?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3...VeSVNIXmnZKpuRk87EGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
 
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HowardGWR

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I think you overplay the difficulty of building the Woking flyover. Having watched them build all the new stuff at Reading, Woking would appear simpler all round. Only single track needed for a start. Whatever the merits of your suggestion, and in a national priority list i think it’d be very low, I don’t think you can hang build-ability of Woking on it...
If that's so, then perhaps Woking would be preferable in priority terms to Windmill Bridge, but sorting out the junctions north of E. Croydon surely has to be hugely beneficial?
 

swt_passenger

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If that's so, then perhaps Woking would be preferable in priority terms to Windmill Bridge, but sorting out the junctions north of E. Croydon surely has to be hugely beneficial?
I wasn't aiming to suggest building something as a higher priority because it was relatively straightforward, the way I see it Windmill Bridge is probably still a higher priority than Woking. The overall timescales to do Windmill Bridge (as it's an umbrella term for a number of jobs) would presumably be significantly longer than Woking so might start first but finish second...
 

swt_passenger

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I've just seen that plan, and the idea of making the existing Down Slow platform into an island looks practical. It already has a bay at the down end.
The through platform (P6) is also clearly described and shown in Network Rail's publicised plans in the Wessex route study. Having 5 through platforms would allow more trains to stop, with crossovers to allow 3 platforms to be used in the up direction in the morning peak

I think MarkyT's version is really just his ideas for fine tuning the layout, he first came up with it a few months back in the previous thread about Woking grade separation.
 

mugam4

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If we’re throwing money everywhere, I’d grade separate Havant, and put an extra island platform in the through road so that you could have 2 arrivals at once into Havant.
An extra platform here will be worthwhile at some point - already, in my experience, Coastway arrivals from the east are routed into the Up platform semi-regularly.
 

TheEdge

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Haughley Junction often gets thrown about as a good place for a flyover perhaps Not sure if its technically possible due to the pre-existing gradients.
 

InTheEastMids

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Wouldn't Wigston be a contender too?

Doubt it hits the top of the list with Woking, but it's in the pipeline as part of the Leicester Capacity (Syston to Wigston) scheme, which looks like it may happen in the middle of the next decade. If we're lucky.
 

MarkyT

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Haughley Junction often gets thrown about as a good place for a flyover perhaps Not sure if its technically possible due to the pre-existing gradients.

Complicated by the level crossing too. There is a longstanding plan to rebuild it as a double junction in the future.
 

HowardGWR

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An extra platform here will be worthwhile at some point - already, in my experience, Coastway arrivals from the east are routed into the Up platform semi-regularly.
Is there more that could be done along this stretch? It is a rather laboured journey from Southampton /Portsmouth to (Arundel) Horsham and likewise to (Angmering) Brighton with many conflicting junctions.
 

Mintona

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I’d definitely vote for Didcot, as that’s the one I’m most familiar with, and probably the location I get held at the most red signals. I can’t help but feel Wootton Bassett could be a contender in the near future too.
 

Altnabreac

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Newbridge, Hyndland East, Portobello.

Also, Newbridge will be 12tph soon, currently 10tp. Both of those could do with one. A flyover at Newbridge may remove the need for the Almond chord, if possible.

Almond Chord effectively is the grade separation solution for Newbridge.

Not only is Newbridge a technically difficult and expensive location to grade separate, Almond Chord also provides a better balancing of demand between north and south lines at Haymarket and thus effectively also provides partial grade separation of Haymarket East junction (Carstairs and Shotts line trains crossing Newbridge bound trains on the flat) and partial grade separation of Haymarket Central junction (Haymarket North lines - Haymarket south lines trains crossing on the flat).

My view is that Haymarket East junction is probably the Scottish junction most in need of grade separation but short of a new tunneled High Speed route into Edinburgh it is physically impossible to grade separate it. So Almond Chord is the next best thing as it at least partially reduces conflicts at Haymarket East junction. Possibly a Platform 5 on the south side of Haymarket might also help too.
 

Harbornite

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Possibly Kings Norton or Barnt Green, reducing the conflicts between cross city and crosscountry/ birmingham-hereford services. Network Rail's latest WM and Chiltern Route study refers to these.
 

Ianno87

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Or see if platforms can be installed on the current freight "Northallerton avoiding" lines for those services which head towards Eaglescliffe

Introduces the problem of extra train movements over the Level Crossing down there - difficult to bridge due to the ECML being right alongside at elevated level (bridging the road)
 

ChiefPlanner

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Haughley Junction often gets thrown about as a good place for a flyover perhaps Not sure if its technically possible due to the pre-existing gradients.

When the junction was renewed some years ago - there was an ideal opportunity to redouble it - however certain now retired NR Managers (despite requirements from all operators) - refused...

It is now up for redoubling. That should do it...
 
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