Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[SaveECRewards]

If you're on Twitter can you like/retweet this if you feel it's appropriate. https://twitter.com/SaveECRewards/status/985460351146905600

Here's what one guard said to me in a DM, there was more than this but some of the other things would have revealed where he's based.

The most frustrating part of it all is that we (onboard, station, ticket office staff) really want the East Coast to succeed. It's the VTEC shambles that has completely destroyed staff morale. It's this attitude that VTEC have that because the new onboard and station set up does not work VTEC are blaming the staff. They are so damned arrogant they won't even admit they got it wrong. If they had come to us and said "we tried it, it hasn't worked and we need your help to repair it" then the staff most likely would've got stuck in because we want it to work. Instead VTEC continue in this deluded state of denial. It's all about gimmicky nonsense and those ******* Azumas coming in. They won't even tell the truth about that and then act like c**ts by blocking you.

 

[mmh]

The current style is just awful. Not only do you have the attempts to be funny they've had ads pulled because they're just wrong (no booking fee but ONLY if you book direct) and they changed their TV campaign from Spandau v Speedcore to Spandau v Thrash Metal presumably because associating your competition with speed was a bad idea. This new campaign was also when they started going overboard plastering the stations with ads. Like I said on Twitter it feels like what Mike Ashley as done with Newcastle United - St James' Park is plastered in Sports Direct ads, VTEC makes the station just as tacky.

Advertising yourself on a station is a bit strange to start with, the people reading it are, err, already there! I think most people would prefer the space to be used to display useful information.

 

[transmanche]

Advertising yourself on a station is a bit strange to start with, the people reading it are, err, already there!

Don't forget, for some journeys, people have a choice of operator. At Newcastle, if I want to travel to York I can choose TPE, VTEC or XC. If you want people to choose to travel with VTEC, then why not advertise?

Or if you want people to choose to book their tickets via VTEC's website, whoever they are travelling with, then why not advertise?

 

[Clip]

Advertising yourself on a station is a bit strange to start with, the people reading it are, err, already there! I think most people would prefer the space to be used to display useful information.

but the advertising is for those who are not using their services so it serves that purpose

 

[mmh]

Don't forget, for some journeys, people have a choice of operator. At Newcastle, if I want to travel to York I can choose TPE, VTEC or XC. If you want people to choose to travel with VTEC, then why not advertise?

Or if you want people to choose to book their tickets via VTEC's website, whoever they are travelling with, then why not advertise?

People don't get to a station platform then think "oh, I'll use X provider then", they've already got their ticket. They'll get on the train they're booked on or the first one that comes along. The time of the train, how long it takes and the price of the ticket is what matters, everything else is superficial - especially the name of the operator on the side of it.

 

[transmanche]

People don't get to a station platform then think "oh, I'll use X provider then", they've already got their ticket.

I didn't suggest that, but thought it so obvious that advertising might sway their decision for subsequent journeys that I didn't need to specifically state it...

 

[SaveECRewards]

Don't forget, for some journeys, people have a choice of operator. At Newcastle, if I want to travel to York I can choose TPE, VTEC or XC. If you want people to choose to travel with VTEC, then why not advertise?

Or if you want people to choose to book their tickets via VTEC's website, whoever they are travelling with, then why not advertise?

There was an ad in Darlington station (on the info screens) that claimed the VTEC website sold tickets for all of the UK (obviously forgetting Northern Ireland).

When we used to have meetings with the VTEC marketing director I asked why they provided absolutely no incentive whatsoever for people to book tickets on other operators via their site (FirstGroup gives Nectar points for all journeys, VTEC only their own) and he claimed the commission was so small it wasn't worth bothering offering a reward for booking it.

I said he's forgetting the bigger picture. Last year on Platform-X (the thing VTEC did to find startups, I believe Seatfrog was found this way) he was saying they only have data on 30% of customers (the ones that book direct), offering something for booking all journeys on their site meant they could get the full picture of their rail travel.

 

[mmh]

There was an ad in Darlington station (on the info screens) that claimed the VTEC website sold tickets for all of the UK (obviously forgetting Northern Ireland).

When we used to have meetings with the VTEC marketing director I asked why they provided absolutely no incentive whatsoever for people to book tickets on other operators via their site (FirstGroup gives Nectar points for all journeys, VTEC only their own) and he claimed the commission was so small it wasn't worth bothering offering a reward for booking it.

I said he's forgetting the bigger picture. Last year on Platform-X (the thing VTEC did to find startups, I believe Seatfrog was found this way) he was saying they only have data on 30% of customers (the ones that book direct), offering something for booking all journeys on their site meant they could get the full picture of their rail travel.

I used to buy all my tickets from either the VTEC or GWR websites because they used the "MixingDesk" booking thing (is that Webtis?) Now it seems almost every TOC has replaced that with more user-friendly things that I find far less user-friendly

 

[marcouk2]

It just gets frustrating when you get the 'Book on our site!' message chucked at you from every angle (and every seat back) when you're travelling on a ticket you can't buy on their website.

Plus the fact that station wifi is completely free but you then jump on a East Coast train which uses the same SSID but requires a code/payment so you have to keep on forcing your phone to disconnect.

 

[SaveECRewards]

I used to buy all my tickets from either the VTEC or GWR websites because they used the "MixingDesk" booking thing (is that Webtis?) Now it seems almost every TOC has replaced that with more user-friendly things that I find far less user-friendly

GWR still use WebTIS but the Mixing Deck is hidden - simply go to tickets.gwr.com and it's there.

It just gets frustrating when you get the 'Book on our site!' message chucked at you from every angle (and every seat back) when you're travelling on a ticket you can't buy on their website.

Which ticket type is that? I know there's loads of them.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I always found Mixing Deck more helpful too. Gave me more options.

 

[marcouk2]

Which ticket type is that? I know there's loads of them.

A Rover (Freedom of the North East) I used last week while on holiday so it's not VTEC's fault as to why not, but given that according to Railmiles I've spent over 16hrs on their trains over the last week I'm well and truly glad to be nowhere near an VTEC advert this week.

 

[HowardGWR]

I always found Mixing Deck more helpful too. Gave me more options.

I always use GWR too. They give you a 'via' option with much lower prices possible whereas SWR, for instance doesen't. Also, they don't charge to send you your tickets first class, whereas SWR charges £1.
Usual disclaimers. I'll give VTEC a go next time I book, just to see how they compare with GWR.

 

[lincolnshire]

Its about time Virgin East Coast dumped all the silly adverts and grew up and became an adult and then start running the service like adults and not children. How much did all the silly adverts on station cost to produce and to mount on the stations?

 

[BluePenguin]

I always found Mixing Deck more helpful too. Gave me more options.

GWR still use WebTIS but the Mixing Deck is hidden - simply go to tickets.gwr.com and it's there.

The mixing deck is very nice to have and it is such a shame that a lot of websites have gotten rid of it recently. It is very nice to compare times and prices to pick out the cheapest fares on long journeys.

I always use GWR too. They give you a 'via' option with much lower prices possible whereas SWR, for instance doesen't. Also, they don't charge to send you your tickets first class, whereas SWR charges £1.
Usual disclaimers. I'll give VTEC a go next time I book, just to see how they compare with GWR.

I wish the "via" option was a compulsory feature on all journey planners and on by default on all booking engines too. Expedia for example are another website which don't have the "via" option. It is unfortunate as their journey planner is otherwise excellent and easy on the eye. This is very annoying as Quidco are offering 5% cashback at the moment and I can't buy many tickets on there to make the most of it before it ends - https://bit.ly/2JLowB4

 

[ole17]

Advertising yourself on a station is a bit strange to start with, the people reading it are, err, already there! I think most people would prefer the space to be used to display useful information.

The footbridge at wakefield westgate could be found literally 'covered' with multiple "book direct with us!" related boards on the bit of the wall below the windows, even though it's on the paid side of station already and nobody ever looks at it since it's very low below eye level. Not intrusive but still feels very cluttered.


More worrying in the station are the half-broken ticket barriers that don't sense smartcards, and station staff end up leaving the station open for most days at off-peak. They have no idea if it ever gets fixed, even though the barriers are new. Tells you a lot about their actual TLC!

 

[w1bbl3]

A Rover (Freedom of the North East) I used last week while on holiday so it's not VTEC's fault as to why not

To greater extent VTEC not retailing online certain tickets valid on their services is their fault as they have (via Stagecoach) chosen to utilise a custom booking engine that doesn't support such tickets rather than one of the more common engines that do. I'm sure there will have been a commercial decision around the cost of implementing support vs profit from ticket sales, but this does pose the question if DfT should in the future insist as part of the franchise award on the operator offering the full range of tickets for direct online sale.

I always use GWR too. They give you a 'via' option with much lower prices possible whereas SWR, for instance doesen't. Also, they don't charge to send you your tickets first class, whereas SWR charges £1.
Usual disclaimers.

SWR being a first business use the same worldline webtis booking engine as the rest of First TOC's but the advanced options and mixingdesk are hidden away like GWR you can reach them via the older url, http://tickets.southwesternrailway.com. SWR could if they wished surface the via option like GWR on the modern booking site.

 

[pt_mad]

Its about time Virgin East Coast dumped all the silly adverts and grew up and became an adult and then start running the service like adults and not children. How much did all the silly adverts on station cost to produce and to mount on the stations?

What kind of image do Virgin Atlantic put across? Is it the same kind of immaturity?

 

[transmanche]

How much did all the silly adverts on station cost to produce and to mount on the stations?

I'm going to guess that it cost them exactly the same amount as 'sensible' adverts.

Just because you don't like them, does not mean that they're not effective...

 

[jon0844]

What kind of image do Virgin Atlantic put across? Is it the same kind of immaturity?

Over the years, pretty much.

 

[whhistle]

It's hard because people are different.
On the West Coast they expect one thing, on the East they expect different.
When a new company comes in as flamboyant as Virgin are, some people won't like it.

But then the staff don't need to work there.
It's not like it's a forced slave labour. If you don't like it, leave.
Never understand people who moan about changes but aren't that willing to make a move elsewhere. The truth is, it's more hassle to do that.

 

[lincolnshire]

What kind of image do Virgin Atlantic put across? Is it the same kind of immaturity?

Well there planes are not covered in silly stupid tack adverts like they have covered every station with. They are also not as good as they used to be in the past, its a business that you have a choice of airlines and routes to get to where you want to be.

 

[LeeLivery]

I've never liked all the gimmicky stuff and I'm a eligible for a 16-25 railcard!

What kind of image do Virgin Atlantic put across? Is it the same kind of immaturity?

I've flown with them once, not a fan.

It says a lot that they've been in and out of profit for years despite having some of the highest fares I've ever seen. I'm eligible for a 10% discount from Virgin Holidays, it was still more expensive to NYC via them than booking flights and hotel through BA.

It's hard because people are different.
On the West Coast they expect one thing, on the East they expect different.
When a new company comes in as flamboyant as Virgin are, some people won't like it.

But then the staff don't need to work there.
It's not like it's a forced slave labour. If you don't like it, leave.
Never understand people who moan about changes but aren't that willing to make a move elsewhere. The truth is, it's more hassle to do that.

Whilst I understand your view, remember it's the staff that make a company. The staff was there first and the first people who should be consulted is the staff. Companies that try to dictate and force through changes without asking the staff what the problems are, never do well because the staff feel ignored, especially if the reform seems ridiculous. Often if a company just listened to staff for feedback you'd see positive change. I know a (non-rail) company that pushed through changes trying to fix problems in totally the wrong way. Unsurprisingly, the aims of the reforms failed over and over again. Not everyone feels like they could easily get a job elsewhere, especially if they're of a certain age.

 

[al78]

It's hard because people are different.
On the West Coast they expect one thing, on the East they expect different.
When a new company comes in as flamboyant as Virgin are, some people won't like it.

But then the staff don't need to work there.
It's not like it's a forced slave labour. If you don't like it, leave.
Never understand people who moan about changes but aren't that willing to make a move elsewhere. The truth is, it's more hassle to do that.

Ewwww that nasty argument again.

Changing jobs involves risk and uncertainty. There is no guarantee of being able to find another job quickly but bills and mortgage payments still need to be made. The companies who mistreat their staff know this which is why they can get away with it. In addition, finding another job may involve moving far away, which is problematic when children are settled in school, and your partner also has a local job and doesn't want to move.

There are moral as well as practical reasons why that argument is vile. Expecting people to put up with crap or move, instead of dealing with people who inflict the crap is giving license for bullies, sociopaths and narcissists to abuse people without comeback, whilst everyone else has to take the abuse without complaint like good little citizens. Do you really want to live in a society like that? How about anyone that complains about the government go and move to another country?

 

[stut]

The "book direct with us" thing can be annoying, but others take it to much greater extremes. Hilton hotels now instruct front desk staff to give you a lecture when you check in if you didn't book direct with them. Imagine if VTEC made their onboard staff do that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The "book direct with us" thing can be annoying, but others take it to much greater extremes. Hilton hotels now instruct front desk staff to give you a lecture when you check in if you didn't book direct with them.

As in to be rude to customers, you mean? Or just to sell the virtues of booking direct?

That would bring on a formal complaint each time if the former, and I would expect it will increase the number of instances of abuse and assault of staff too. (It reminds me of the old HSBC policy of saying "for quality" if someone was to ask what HSBC stood for[1], which would, with many people less peacefully-minded than me, would result in a thump in the face for bare-faced cheek, and in my less violent case would almost certainly result in a formal complaint).

[1] I know it technically doesn't, but to me the factual answer is "It used to stand for Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation, but since we moved our head office to London and became a UK bank we have dropped that, so it's now just HSBC and doesn't really stand for anything in a linguistic sense and is just our brand". An answer other than that is bare-faced corporate cheek and disrespect of the customer.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The footbridge at wakefield westgate could be found literally 'covered' with multiple "book direct with us!" related boards on the bit of the wall below the windows, even though it's on the paid side of station already and nobody ever looks at it since it's very low below eye level. Not intrusive but still feels very cluttered.


More worrying in the station are the half-broken ticket barriers that don't sense smartcards, and station staff end up leaving the station open for most days at off-peak. They have no idea if it ever gets fixed, even though the barriers are new. Tells you a lot about their actual TLC!

They leave the station 'open' at Westgate? My experience of it is that the barriers are almost always in use, but usually with no staff in attendance because all of them are round by the ticket counter having "workplace banter" with their colleagues behind the glass! Anyone with a smart card (and this is a PTE area so there are many) has to shout "EXCUSE ME!" several times before one of them comes over, often sighing and chuntering...

A nice shiny new building but a staff culture that frankly stinks.

 

[stut]

As in to be rude to customers, you mean? Or just to sell the virtues of booking direct?

More along the lines of "we notice you didn't book directly with us, Mr Stut, did you know that, blah blah blah..." Nothing offensive, just pointless, as I get no say in how I book for work travel anyway.

If you do complain to Hilton about it, you get an email back telling you why it's so great if you book direct with them!

 

[Chrism20]

The "book direct with us" thing can be annoying, but others take it to much greater extremes. Hilton hotels now instruct front desk staff to give you a lecture when you check in if you didn't book direct with them. Imagine if VTEC made their onboard staff do that.

The main reason for that with Hilton is to clarify and leave it beyond doubt that any loyalty scheme benefits are not eligible (ie upgrades, free wifi, free breakfast, points earning etc) along with the couple of quid saving.

The problem with VTEC is the only benefit is the seat selector. There is no other benefit to booking direct unless you want a specific seat.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

the only benefit is the seat selector

... which only works one time in two... as unreliable as NX's catering used to be.

The best way for VTEC to get more revenue from ticket sales (or avoid paying commission to other TOCs/travel agents) is to improve its station and internet retailing!