We've got the Key, it's no secret... (Smartcards on GTR)

[Wallsendmag]

It's coming soon. And this week I heads about a new DfT initiative to make all TOC smartcards interoperable with other smartcards, apparently by the end of 2018.

Or 2019

 

[JaJaWa]

Or 2019

Wasn't it the point of I(ntegrated)TSO?

 

[jon0844]

Wasn't it the point of I(ntegrated)TSO?

As I've said many, many times, the DfT should have taken the lead on this whole thing.

Okay, so I'm sure the DfT would have messed it up, but having each individual TOC working on implementing 'their own bit' and no doubt duplicating a lot of processes, plus the interoperability issues, means we've waited years for a national smartcard system.

Even now I don't know how it will all work out, although it does seem that systems like The Key are now beginning to become more reliable, and as ticket offices get new systems to manage them locally (no more doing stuff online, or staff having to email to get things processed), but at least we might be getting somewhere.

The next step is to have these cards work on buses and other modes of transport too. That would ideally include everything from train, coach, bus to hiring a bike...

 

[philjo]

Is there any timescale when carnets will be available on the Key on the GN route?
The Key is also limited in usefulness as it still cannot be used at Cambridge.

 

[jon0844]

Is there any timescale when carnets will be available on the Key on the GN route?
The Key is also limited in usefulness as it still cannot be used at Cambridge.

No idea on when carnets will come to the Key, or Cambridge.. but interoperability between TOCs should solve the latter problem. I know never to get too excited as everything with the Key has been a long, drawn out, process.

 

[holmestm]

For the first time I've ordered a weekly season on my Key Smartcard to be delivered to Meldreth and it won't load. Customer care have no clue and have asked me to take a photo of the Validator at the station. Card works, and I can see my previous orders on the ticket machine at the station. The delivery station is not the starting station (which is Foxton) but it won't load there either. Any suggestions?

 

[JaJaWa]

Just received this survey asking about improvements to National Rail smartcards:

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/smartcard1

We would like to ask you a few questions around your awareness and use of Smart cards that are issued by some train companies.

The survey should take no longer than 5 minutes to complete and will close at 11:45pm on Sunday 3rd June 2018. Your answers will be anonymous so please be open and honest in your responses.

 

[David Sullivan]

I've just started a job close to Welham Green/Hatfield commuting from New Barnet using bike-train-bike.

I've ordered a free Key card from GTR but I've not used it for a season ticket yet as I didn't notice when I ordered the card that I'd have to activate any ticket on a non-Oyster reader, the other thing I was hoping for is a little more flexibility like Contactless as I can (and have) cycled the whole way and is a bit of a waste paying for a ticket I'm not using on the nicer days.

I'm on paper season tickets at the moment and can activate the Key card on a reader on my way home now I'm more settled in but I'm wondering whether it's worth bothering with, it'd be nice to be able to travel direct to Finsbury Park/Highbury and Islington after work without having to buy an extra ticket but the benefits seem fairly marginal.

 

[Hadders]

I'd avoid The Key and stick to a paper ticket to be honest.

 

[jon0844]

I'd avoid The Key and stick to a paper ticket to be honest.

Why? I think most of the early day issues have been resolved now for season tickets and KeyGo has limitations but works within the areas marked.

 

[WymoWanderer]

I occasionally travel to London from Bedford to Aldgate using:

Paper Carnet singles from Bedford to Farringdon
Oyster PAYG from Farringdon to Aldgate

Farringdon has Oyster readers when you switch from the Thameslink platform to the Underground platform.

Now, I would like to have the option of using the KeyGo card but I wanted to know, can I touch out of KeyGo using the Oyster readers when switching platforms? (So I don't have to go to the station exit barriers.

Appreciate Carnet tickets are not yet available for KeyGo.

 

[jon0844]

Appreciate Carnet tickets are not yet available for KeyGo.

I don't think they ever will be. It seems the DfT is not interested in funding the switch and are happy with paper tickets that are routinely abused (and as such, with such high levels of fraud the genuine users are treated with suspicion if there's the slightest discrepancy).

As the ticket revenue goes to the DfT, I guess nobody cares. Maybe Chris Grayling thinks they're fine as they are.. even though each ticket is valid for unlimited use for a 3 month period and, obviously, lots of people take advantage.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I don't think they ever will be. It seems the DfT is not interested in funding the switch and are happy with paper tickets that are routinely abused (and as such, with such high levels of fraud the genuine users are treated with suspicion if there's the slightest discrepancy).

As the ticket revenue goes to the DfT, I guess nobody cares. Maybe Chris Grayling thinks they're fine as they are.. even though each ticket is valid for unlimited use for a 3 month period and, obviously, lots of people take advantage.

You haven’t heard about the £80m then ?

 

[jon0844]

You haven’t heard about the £80m then ?

No, what £80m? They're doing the carnet onto smartcards for just £80m, or this is what Chris Grayling cost us this weekend?

 

[Aictos]

Just one question why is it so difficult to enable railcards for KeyGo when you can add specific railcards to Oyster?

Surely they're both smartcards so it's possible unless it's a issue with the back house software for the Key?

 

[Wallsendmag]

No, what £80m? They're doing the carnet onto smartcards for just £80m, or this is what Chris Grayling cost us this weekend?

Smart Ticketing on National Rail a DfT run and funded project that sees every TOC at least accepting an making their products available on ITSO.

 

[jon0844]

Smart Ticketing on National Rail a DfT run and funded project that sees every TOC at least accepting an making their products available on ITSO.

But GTR already has an ITSO product and has since the contract began, yet the carnet offering has not and I'm told will not be part of it. Maybe it will happen one day, but I can't see it as part of the current management contract. I'd be glad to be proved wrong.

 

[717001]

Some GN/TL single and return tickets are now available for the Key from certain stations - anytime and off-peak (but not super off-peak), allowing railcard discounts. However these can only be purchased on ticket machines but can be used straightaway.

The situation does seem quite fluid and needs reading in conjunction with other relevant points on the pages, so won't quote specific website text, but for GN info on what tickets are currently available see: https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/tickets/the-key-smartcard
(scroll down to faqs) and for railcard info:
https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/help-and-support/contact-us/faq/the-key-smartcard

Hopefully they will continue to add other options.

 

[Wallsendmag]

But GTR already has an ITSO product and has since the contract began, yet the carnet offering has not and I'm told will not be part of it. Maybe it will happen one day, but I can't see it as part of the current management contract. I'd be glad to be proved wrong.

That’s fine just wait a couple of months

 

[APUK002]

Some GN/TL single and return tickets are now available for the Key from certain stations - anytime and off-peak (but not super off-peak), allowing railcard discounts. However these can only be purchased on ticket machines but can be used straightaway.

The situation does seem quite fluid and needs reading in conjunction with other relevant points on the pages, so won't quote specific website text, but for GN info on what tickets are currently available see: https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/tickets/the-key-smartcard
(scroll down to faqs) and for railcard info:
https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/help-and-support/contact-us/faq/the-key-smartcard

Hopefully they will continue to add other options.

Yey,been waiting for daily tickets with railcard to be available on that. I’m pleased it came out eventually!

 

[JP]

Some GN/TL single and return tickets are now available for the Key from certain stations - anytime and off-peak (but not super off-peak), allowing railcard discounts. However these can only be purchased on ticket machines but can be used straightaway.

The situation does seem quite fluid and needs reading in conjunction with other relevant points on the pages, so won't quote specific website text, but for GN info on what tickets are currently available see: https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/tickets/the-key-smartcard
(scroll down to faqs) and for railcard info:
https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/help-and-support/contact-us/faq/the-key-smartcard

Hopefully they will continue to add other options.

They say you can use a Gold Card but I'm yet to see that actually show as an option on the machines. Same with 26-30 Railcards. All well and good having that on their website but it's not the case at the ticket machines.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I see that SWR are introducing smartcard carnets.

 

[APUK002]

They say you can use a Gold Card but I'm yet to see that actually show as an option on the machines. Same with 26-30 Railcards. All well and good having that on their website but it's not the case at the ticket machines.

Will have to try it myself

 

[philjo]

I see that SWR are introducing smartcard carnets.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/smart-ticketing/carnet

Interesting to see from the FAQs that the SWR carnet gives you unlimited travel that day as if you held a 1 day rover or season. The SWR carnets are based on anytime return fares. The GTR version is based on singles in both anytime and off-peak versions.

Carnet can be used on any South Western Railway service across existing Smartcard routes*. Each day the Carnet is used, you will get unlimited travel for that day between those two stations and can even stop off to break your journey at any of the stations in between.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/smart-ticketing/carnet

Interesting to see from the FAQs that the SWR carnet gives you unlimited travel that day as if you held a 1 day rover or season. The SWR carnets are based on anytime return fares. The GTR version is based on singles in both anytime and off-peak versions.

I suppose then at least they are giving you an advantage for the inconvenince and relatively poor value for money.

 

[mattdickinson]

The latest Keygo map now shows availability to Dartford on Thameslink services.

Purely speculation on my part, but I wonder if the expansion of Contactless (but not Oyster PAYG) availaibility to Radlett and Welwyn Garden City is a trial of much greater interavailability. (For example Keygo acceptance on all London Zones services on any TOC and TfL in return for Contactless acceptance anywhere on the Keygo map.)

 

[MikeWh]

Interesting that you can use it on GWR services on the North Downs Line and Coastway but not Southeastern. If you genuinely cannot use it on Southeastern services between Dartford/Swanley and London then that's a recipe for a PF/Prosecution bonanza culminating in serious bad press.

 

[fkofilee]

Can be used on the North Downs because the interchange with Southern services from Dorking / Horsham on Metro Routes. But notice how Betchworth etc isnt included on the map.

 

[infobleep]

Can be used on the North Downs because the interchange with Southern services from Dorking / Horsham on Metro Routes. But notice how Betchworth etc isnt included on the map.

I asked them a question about Dorking on a Facebook advert. I should have asked about Betchworth. :grin:

 

[mattdickinson]

The latest Keygo map shows that validity of Keygo has been extended from Redhill to Leigh (but not Tonbridge), from Slade Green to Dartford, and St.Mary Cray to Swanley.
The main Key map hasn't been updated yet, but it seems unlikely that only Keygo would be accepted.