GWR Shortage of Traincrew Weekend and During Week

[Bromley boy]

There are plenty of drivers, but there is also plenty of traction training going on for new/transferred rolling stock all over the GWR area, plus route learning, holidays, etc, etc - which means a substantial proportion of drivers are spending time doing things other than driving passenger services at the moment.

If lots of drivers are currently unproductive there aren’t “plenty of drivers”, are there!? That’s a basic fact you appear to be overlooking.

Route learning, training, rostered leave, stock transfers which have been known about for years are all known quantities which should have been planned for. It’s down to the TOC to ensure it has sufficient staff to cover the work.

My point is that if the TOC has allowed itself to reach a position where it has insufficient drivers to cover the work and is cancelling trains it’s is ridiculous for people on here to start blaming front line staff who have no control over the situation.

 

[jimm]

But instead you seem keen to blame GWR.

There are plenty of drivers - more than there have ever been on the books at GWR before - but those drivers cannot be productive if they don't actually know how to drive the trains their employer is now introducing/transferring to the areas where they work, throughout the entire large area the company operates. Put off some training and the period of disruption would most likely last even longer.

You keep claiming things have been know about for years, but if the GW wiring programme had gone to schedule, then training in the Thames Valley on emus would all have been out of the way by the end of 2016 or very early last year, ahead of training for IETs, and training on Turbos in the West of England would have been further advanced, along with resulting transfers of 15xs from Bristol to Devon and Cornwall, etc.

Instead events have condensed all that lot into a much shorter period, with all sorts of things happening at once, with the results we have seen. You can't suddenly wave a magic wand and rustle up lots of extra drivers to tide you over.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

My point is that if the TOC has allowed itself to reach a position where it has insufficient drivers to cover the work and is cancelling trains it’s is ridiculous for people on here to start blaming front line staff who have no control over the situation.

I think this perfectly illustrates the point Jimm (and others) are making about people being determined to blame the TOC, despite any and all evidence to the contrary. Please re-read the previous posts and you’ll see that it is a very much more complex situation than just ‘incompetent management’ or ‘bad planning’.

I also don’t think it’s remotely traincrew’s fault either, but persistently blaming ‘managers’ and ‘planners’ is just as unreasonable in my view. Why can’t we all just agree it’s the DfT’s fault?
(Deliberate humour)

 

[PHILIPE]

Have held off until now from posting this, but what happened this weekend. Just a few odd cancellations this weekend and possible almost to count on one hand although there several 5 vice 10 IETs.

 

[Mag_seven]

Have held off until now from posting this, but what happened this weekend. Just a few odd cancellations this weekend and possible almost to count on one hand although there several 5 vice 10 IETs.

Much reduced service due to the engineering work at Swindon plus end of the school holidays?

 

[PHILIPE]

Yesterday, it was back to square one and today seems to be as bad as I've seen it for cancellations. Today, it has spread to the West of England due to what I've read on another Forum, as the result of a "barbecue day" at Plymouth and due, I believe, to being in dispute over some matter. Some Plymouth to Paddingtons are being re-instated to run as far as Exeter St Davids and formed with 2 cars so would appear to being crewed by Exeter West crews with Sprinters or Pacers. This does provide opportunities to travel to Waterloo as ticket acceptance has been agreed with SWR.

 

[jimm]

I posted this in the decline of GWR thread but it probably ought to be here as well.

A message from GWR managing director Mark Hopwood to the Cotswold Line Promotion Group, in response to complaints about the state of services on the route.

GWR managing director Mark Hopwood has written to CLPG chairman John Ellis about problems with train services on the Cotswold Line in recent months and has agreed to us publishing the letter online so that members can see what he had to say.

http://www.clpg.org.uk/blog/cotswold-line-service-problems-a-response-from-gwr/

 

[irish_rail]

Yesterday, it was back to square one and today seems to be as bad as I've seen it for cancellations. Today, it has spread to the West of England due to what I've read on another Forum, as the result of a "barbecue day" at Plymouth and due, I believe, to being in dispute over some matter. Some Plymouth to Paddingtons are being re-instated to run as far as Exeter St Davids and formed with 2 cars so would appear to being crewed by Exeter West crews with Sprinters or Pacers. This does provide opportunities to travel to Waterloo as ticket acceptance has been agreed with SWR.

For the record a well liked member of staff who recently retired is having a leaving do today hence why so few at Plymouth are choosing to work.

 

[PHILIPE]

I posted this in the decline of GWR thread but it probably ought to be here as well.

A message from GWR managing director Mark Hopwood to the Cotswold Line Promotion Group, in response to complaints about the state of services on the route.



http://www.clpg.org.uk/blog/cotswold-line-service-problems-a-response-from-gwr/

Mark Hopwood should have announced this to the whole region not just when cornered by a Cotswold Group

 

[Tim456]

Mark Hopwood should have announced this to the whole region not just when cornered by a Cotswold Group

Agreed, it’s such a detailed response from the M.D. that everyone who has had to put up with the service provided or not provided as is often the case on GWR at weekends over the past year needs to see why so they know what’s going on and what’s been done to sort it.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

From looking at GWR's Journey Check page on the 22/04/18 which is quite reliable:

I'm not sure if any of you are aware but because of a shortage of train drivers, a 1-coach Class 153 substituted for an 8-coach HST on services to and from Plymouth and Par. So that's around 75 seats instead of around 500.

I thought it was the services to and from Par and Newquay which I then thought I was imaging it - HST's operate a few London services on this line in the Summer.

Nope I wasn't imagining it once I read it correctly that it was to and from Plymouth and Par services were formed of 1 coach instead of 8. Even my sister Michelle wasn't impressed - yes it's better to run something than cancel a service but to have this kind of short formation when there'll be a good number changing onto and from InterCity trains / Rail Replacement buses at Plymouth is pretty low!

 

[JN114]

There weren’t any to Plymouth, Plymouth - Par was closed all weekend. It was buses Par/St Austell to Plymouth.

If there’s no HST-qualified drivers; but a sprinter-qualified driver and 153 spare; surely it’s better to run a train, even if it is 1 vice 8? Given the number of services which were 1 vice 8 Sunday would any trains have run at all of GWR hadn’t?

HSTs are pretty much overkill for the Penzance - Par shuttles during the blockade - they were only diagrammed out because there weren’t due to be enough sprinters West of the block to run branches and mainline.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I understand running a train is better than cancelling. Things must have have been pretty desperate down in Cornwall though.

 

[Tim456]

Was it all services between PNZ and PAR operated by a dog box or did GWR manage to run any HST’s?

Agree running and HST on this shuttle service is a bit much but a one coach train must have got pretty full during the afternoon with those heading back to London from Cornwall.

 

[njtruscott]

HST's worked most of the Penzance - Par services on Sunday. The 153 may have only done one round trip which was during the evening.

 

[Mag_seven]

Apart from some issues between Swansea and Carmarthen, it seems that there have been hardly any train crew related cancellations today (so far) especially on the main HSS routes. Could we be out of the woods.....

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

According to an article in today's Sunday Times, some 10 car units are running with 5 cars locked out of use due to lack of connecting gangways and staff shortages. Thus overcrowding occurs while 5 coaches of fresh air are carted around. The article points out that in the old trains staff can walk the entire length of the train. Only in UK could the railway put people off using it so readily.

 

[Bungle965]

From their Journey Check page.

17:50 Liskeard to Looe due 18:19
17:55 Swansea to Carmarthen due 18:40
18:25 Looe to Liskeard due 18:53
19:05 Carmarthen to Swansea due 19:49
20:08 Hanborough to Worcester Shrub Hill due 21:09
20:15 Liskeard to Looe due 20:44
20:50 Looe to Liskeard due 21:18
21:28 Worcester Shrub Hill to Hanborough due 22:32
22:04 Hanborough to Great Malvern due 23:27
23:40 Hanborough to Worcester Shrub Hill due 00:45

All cancelled due to driver or guard shortages.
Sam

 

[Tim456]

Apart from some issues between Swansea and Carmarthen, it seems that there have been hardly any train crew related cancellations today (so far) especially on the main HSS routes. Could we be out of the woods.....

Sadly unlikely once Summer holidays kick in.

 

[JN114]

According to an article in today's Sunday Times, some 10 car units are running with 5 cars locked out of use due to lack of connecting gangways and staff shortages. Thus overcrowding occurs while 5 coaches of fresh air are carted around. The article points out that in the old trains staff can walk the entire length of the train. Only in UK could the railway put people off using it so readily.

There is currently no requirement for a corridor connection to exist between units in passenger service - indeed up and down the country both Guarded and DOO trains frequently operate with entire units completely unstaffed; and no access between units.

It’s all very political, so I’ll be careful what I say; but the current restrictions on operation of IETs - specifically that there must be a person who can reset passcomms, use the PA/Intercom and competent to deal with any on-train incident - while understandable are incredibly frustrating. More so when the same Guards then, in the same turn, work traction which doesn’t have a corridor connection between units without batting an eyelid.

100% it’s great for safety; but there’s no actual rule book requirement for it - and it’s ridiculous when we’re then carting an empty 5 car around on a crush-loaded peak train out of London because the IET-competent ticket examiner was delayed on their way into London and there’s no spare cover.

 

[1e10]

More so when the same Guards then, in the same turn, work traction which doesn’t have a corridor connection between units without batting an eyelid.

I imagine diagrams in Devon and Cornwall booked sprinter + pacer have the one guard?

 

[IainG81]

Been intresting too see if next weekend with line to Paddington being closed over the Bank Holiday weekend the situation is better or worse than it normally is on weekends. There didn't seem like this weekend there were as many Paddington departures cancelled as last week.

 

[Tim456]

Been intresting too see if next weekend with line to Paddington being closed over the Bank Holiday weekend the situation is better or worse than it normally is on weekends. There didn't seem like this weekend there were as many Paddington departures cancelled as last week.

You might find most were happy to work this past weekend but would like next weekend off being a bank holiday. We shall see.

 

[Tim456]

Anyone prepared to defend the complete horlicks of a service being served up by GWR/Network Rail today?

A new low on the level of service on the GW mainline. My sympathies with anyone trying to get to London or Twickenham today.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Anyone prepared to defend the complete horlicks of a service being served up by GWR/Network Rail today?

A new low on the level of service on the GW mainline. My sympathies with anyone trying to get to London or Twickenham today.

GWR were given a finalised plan by NR at 1700 yesterday. How do you expect them to plan a service based upon that? 48hrs ahead is the usual working timescales for crews. They've had less than 12hours

 

[Bishopstone]

GWR were given a finalised plan by NR at 1700 yesterday. How do you expect them to plan a service based upon that? 48hrs ahead is the usual working timescales for crews. They've had less than 12hours

I would expect GWR, as the customer of Network Rail, to have been creating merry hell over this for the last few weeks, up to and including:

i) Direct conversations between senior executives on both sides, several times a day.
ii) Withholding payment of invoices, tactically.

Did they?

 

[tiptoptaff]

I would expect GWR, as the customer of Network Rail, to have been creating merry hell over this for the last few weeks, up to and including:

i) Direct conversations between senior executives on both sides, several times a day.
ii) Withholding payment of invoices, tactically.

Did they?

Yes. I received a Control Brief for the weekend's plan on Thursday morning. It was then changed by NR several times up until 1700 yesterday. What were they supposed to do? Every time ti changed, it was back to square one. I really don't think people understand the relationship between TOCs and NR. They may be customers, but they do as NR want for engineering access. Not GWR's fault if NR cannot fix up their final plan until 1700 the day before. By that time, crews have already been contacted to arrange change of shifts and days, so it is unreasonable to contact them yet again and ask for yet more blood from an ever-drier stone.

 

[SwindonBert]

I'm due to be in Exeter this evening, this could be fun!

 

[Mag_seven]

Not GWR's fault if NR cannot fix up their final plan until 1700 the day before.

Bearing in mind that this block has been known about for weeks, why the 11th hour final plan?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Bearing in mind that this block has been known about for weeks, why the 11th hour final plan?

If that was known it wouldn't have been so last minute for GWR. Last minute changes are frequent. But this seems to have been quite a change