GN Class 717

[urpert]

They're so.... grey....

Reminds me of the ‘battleship’ Thameslink livret from the mid 90s: (not my image)

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/pics/jle_319035.jpg

 

[Snapper]

Yesterday I visited Siemens in both Krefeld and Wildenrath to see the 717s being built and had the opportunity to drive one. I've started adding the pictures from the trip to this gallery.

http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p292832614

717001-012 are built and are on test at Wildenrath. 717013 is ready to leave Krefeld. 717014 and 015 were being fitted out on the production line.

 

[Domh245]

Thanks for the photos @Snapper. Do you know what those large metal bins in this photo are for? It is also interesting to see from that cab photo that the right hand cab wall is a solid wall as you might expect to find in Gangwayed stock. The 378s, which are similar in that they have to have 'half' cabs because of evacuation doors, have got it as a floating thing with just the DOO screens and radios on it, which make the cab seem less claustrophobic.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

There's a few journos (and 717s) at Wildenrath today:

Along with TL and Southern, GN may have its own brand within the GTR family. It's interesting that the new 717s actually have the TL livery with the \ at both ends which comes from the "ThamesLink/" logo. The GN logos may simply get peeled off and replaced with TL in the possible event of further TL expansion in the future.

GN as a brand doesn't seem important to GTR that it could have its own distinctive styling for branding and livery but TL would be the principal brand and that Southern looks set to be split off later on otherwise Southern by now could possibly also receive the TL livery though with the Southern roundel logos or green Southern GTR triangle logos stuck on.

 

[jon0844]

Along with TL and Southern, GN may have its own brand within the GTR family. It's interesting that the new 717s actually have the TL livery with the \ at both ends which comes from the "ThamesLink/" logo. The GN logos may simply get peeled off and replaced with TL in the possible event of further TL expansion in the future.

GN as a brand doesn't seem important to GTR that it could have its own distinctive styling for branding and livery but TL would be the principal brand and that Southern looks set to be split off later on otherwise Southern by now could possibly also receive the TL livery though with the Southern roundel logos or green Southern GTR triangle logos stuck on.

Surely the stripes were part of the DfT branding and came about before GTR even existed? The original TL logo was also the same ribbon design as GN. Given the link up, I think it would have made sense to keep them looking similar.

The 717s will always be GN, unless TfL took them over one day.

 

[Domh245]

Surely the stripes were part of the DfT branding and came about before GTR even existed? The original TL logo was also the same ribbon design as GN. Given the link up, I think it would have made sense to keep them looking similar.

Indeed, the livery (with stripes) first appeared on the 365s, and had appeared in render form as early as July 2013

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry, please delete, thinking of a different photo..

 

[JaJaWa]

There's a few journos (and 717s) at Wildenrath today:

...

And now in time honoured forum tradition, it's time for the thread to devolve into pages upon pages of seat complaints.

What’s the symbol under the WiFi symbol?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Whoa page two since the photos and no-ones complained about a yellow front!

 

[rebmcr]

What’s the symbol under the WiFi symbol?

A power brick, indicating an electrical socket.

 

[D365]

Whoa page two since the photos and no-ones complained about a yellow front!

Well, a lack of.

 

[swt_passenger]

Whoa page two since the photos and no-ones complained about a yellow front!

It isn’t exactly unusual anymore...

 

[Snapper]

Jut to let folks know that I've added many more photos to the gallery - with more to come (plus a blog) tomorrow. http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p292832614

 

[jon0844]

Interesting to see they're max 85mph. Never realised that. Not that they would often get a chance to do 100mph, either because they keep stopping or because they're limited to the slow lines, anyway.

 

[D365]

Interesting to see they're max 85mph.

Has the relevant Wikipedia article been updated? I would, but my source for this is internal.

Definitely interesting to note that they are rated for (just over) 135kph as opposed to the ‘traditional’ 120kph of European-built metro stock.

 

[APUK002]

What’s the symbol under the WiFi symbol?

Plug sockets sign

 

[TRAX]

These look great, much better proportioned than the 700s. And the lack of a yellow front is always enjoyable, especially when it’s replaced by black.

 

[jellybaby]

Yes 2+2 will be very welcome on this route, the loss of the 2 middle cabs will be as well. I suspect the actual number of seats will not be that large when you consider how much room the cabs take up on the 313s.

The current 313s have 462 seats on a six car train, without the middle cabs it would be 482. If the only difference on the 717s is the middle cabs and all 2+2 then I make it 430 seats.

From looking at the pictures I think there might only be 4 rows of seats between the doors and the end of the carriage rather than the current 6 (where there isn't a cab). That could mean only 318 seats. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Failed Unit]

The current 313s have 462 seats on a six car train, without the middle cabs it would be 482. If the only difference on the 717s is the middle cabs and all 2+2 then I make it 430 seats.

From looking at the pictures I think there might only be 4 rows of seats between the doors and the end of the carriage rather than the current 6 (where there isn't a cab). That could mean only 318 seats. I hope I'm wrong.

I hope that is a typo and you mean 418

But I am hoping the big gain is that if you are joining at Finsbury Park you can get on the first train that arrives. It is not uncommon now to need to wait for 2 to go before you can board.

If the origin in Stevenage / WGC seems to be no chance. Gordon Hill seems to be better.

 

[jellybaby]

I hope that is a typo and you mean 418

No, it's not a typo.

6 rows of 2+2 between the doors + (4 rows of 2+2 between the doors and the car ends x 2 ends) = 56 seats in a middle car.

Remove a couple of rows at each end for the cabs and a couple of seats for some wheelchair spaces (the 313s have a bay of 3 flip up seats rather than 4 regular) and you get to 318.

But I've made a bunch of assumptions.

But I am hoping the big gain is that if you are joining at Finsbury Park you can get on the first train that arrives. It is not uncommon now to need to wait for 2 to go before you can board.

Certainly looks like a lot more space around the doors

(from http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...w/great-northern-class-717-emus-unveiled.html)

Distance between the grab bars looks quite big and nothing on the ceiling to hold onto.

 

[Failed Unit]

No, it's not a typo.

6 rows of 2+2 between the doors + (4 rows of 2+2 between the doors and the car ends x 2 ends) = 56 seats in a middle car.

Remove a couple of rows at each end for the cabs and a couple of seats for some wheelchair spaces (the 313s have a bay of 3 flip up seats rather than 4 regular) and you get to 318.

But I've made a bunch of assumptions.



Certainly looks like a lot more space around the doors

(from http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...w/great-northern-class-717-emus-unveiled.html)

Distance between the grab bars looks quite big and nothing on the ceiling to hold onto.

Interesting to see how that goes down in the rush hour. Very significant reduction in seats on the WGC branch in the peak, coupled with slower journey times. I think people in potters bar will miss seats.

 

[rebmcr]

nothing on the ceiling to hold onto

That might be added. The interior isn't exactly finished in these photos.

 

[jellybaby]

(from http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...w/great-northern-class-717-emus-unveiled.html)

I should just read the article rather than looking at the pictures.

Total capacity is 943 passenger per unit, with 362 seats including 64 priority and 15 tip-up seats; there are no seat-back tables. There are two wheelchair spaces.

 

[skyhigh]

That might be added. The interior isn't exactly finished in these photos.

As it's pretty similar to a class 700, I'd be surprised. I think it was explained on here that as the ceiling panels hinge down, they can't support ceiling grab poles.

 

[Snapper]

Here's a run-down on and look at the new Class 717s which includes technical details and plans for service introduction https://paulbigland.blog/2018/05/05/coming-soon-new-trains-for-the-gn-moorgate-lines/ …

 

[southern442]

Has the relevant Wikipedia article been updated? I would, but my source for this is internal.

Definitely interesting to note that they are rated for (just over) 135kph as opposed to the ‘traditional’ 120kph of European-built metro stock.

85 MPH top is quite strange. But then again, when and why was it decided metro stock would generally have a top speed of 75? And (perhaps more speculation than anything) why did they decide to not do 75 MPH or 100?

 

[jon0844]

85 MPH top is quite strange. But then again, when and why was it decided metro stock would generally have a top speed of 75? And (perhaps more speculation than anything) why did they decide to not do 75 MPH or 100?

The slow lines are a maximum of 75 aren't they? Perhaps there's a plan to raise this in the future? Could possibly help a little if the new trains skip some stops? Certainly for the semi fast trains now consigned to the slows too.

 

[332 > 444]

Only that the Hertford loop is 70/75mph throughout unless they plan to raise the speed.

 

[choochoochoo]

Interesting that one set of door release buttons are vertical and the other set are horizontal. Why not have as much commonality with 700s as possible ? Aren't some GN drivers going to be driving both fleets ?

 

[jon0844]

Interesting that one set of door release buttons are vertical and the other set are horizontal. Why not have as much commonality with 700s as possible ? Aren't some GN drivers going to be driving both fleets ?

Gotta keep drivers on their toes!