VTEC moving mk4 carriage labels

[najaB]

They're LED display panels, not cathode ray tubes.

Which still have some depth to them and need power supplies, drivers, wiring, etc. Pocket doors already eat into saloon space somewhat so they wouldn't want to increase the 'land take'.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Whether the same was done in the days of the GNER 373s is neither here nor there - VTEC are taking a step in the right direction here - the kind of little detail that could save a few seconds of dwell time as passengers know from a distance which carriage to walk towards - but, of course, because its VTEC, people on here will add it to their lists of things to moan about - almost like some people on here have agendas...

I'm glad to have this discussion. The more I think about it I can see the benefits of having the coach letter up there, but I also wonder whether it's not usually that high up for a reason (e.g. the ease of changing the coach letter if a mk 4 carriage is swapped).

One of the reasons Adam Reid said on Twitter this was done is hopefully it would reduce anxiety some people may experience with the new trains. Of course this is just bringing the anxiety forward to the existing fleet, particularly while it's just one set that differs from the rest.

In general coach letters have always been near to the door. The post I quoted in comment #15 points out that due to the door design on the mk 4 these stickers will be further away from the door than the signs on the actual Azuma will be due to the way the door opens so it's not going to be quite realistic.

Let's see what happens. I was talking to someone at GWR at the end of last year and they said VTEC seemed to be insistent on doing their own thing and weren't interested in the experiences GWR were having with their rollout.

 

[Mag_seven]

I don't see any issue in this new placement - but then I know where I want to board anyway whenever I use VTEC.

 

[transmanche]

I've not been on (or even seen in real life) any class 80x trains, so I thought I'd have a look online for some photos.

• The first thing that struck me was that the type of doors used means that it's not possible to put the LED displays on the doors like on Pendolinos, so they have to go on the bodyside like on Voyagers.
• Putting them high up means they are far more visible than on Pendolinos and Voyagers.
• The photo below shows an external camera located close to the door, meaning that the destination display has to be moved further along the bodyside. (Not all doors seem to have a camera in that position, but consistency is key in positioning the destination display.)
• The positioning of the destination display looks excellent to me; clearly visible without passengers having to cluster around the door in order to read it.

I know that for some on this forum, VTEC cannot do anything right. But I think they've made a good decision this time. Getting passengers used to the change early will help smooth the changeover. Trying it out on one unit first is a good idea too - see if anything useful can be learned before rolling it out across the fleet.

A good move, IMHO.


Source: alamy.com

 

[SaveECRewards]

• The photo below shows an external camera located close to the door, meaning that the destination display has to be moved further along the bodyside. (Not all doors seem to have a camera in that position, but consistency is key in positioning the destination display.)

That picture highlights something. The new digital displays are going to be much harder to read at distance if you have poor eyesight. The new mk 4 signs are nice and clear. Perhaps the coach letter should have been better larger on these digital displays. Still it's not something that can really be changed.

I've been on a class 800 but with no reservation so I never looked at those signs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The signs are also in an odd format:

Destination
00:00 First stop

Confused the life out of me when I first saw one and I know the railway. The time is on the wrong line.

 

[D2007wsm]

There will be a period where both types of trains are in service at the same time. Having the information in a consistent location makes sense.

GWR haven't changed the location of the coach letter stickers on the HSTs to match the IETs, customers down here don't seem to have a problem identifying the coach letters. On services which split, they just display and announce which unit to board.

 

[corsaVXR]

The signs are also in an odd format:

Destination
00:00 First stop

Confused the life out of me when I first saw one and I know the railway. The time is on the wrong line.

I prefer the eurostar way, where the train number is listed, instead of any times. Removes ambiguity.

 

[transmanche]

I prefer the eurostar way, where the train number is listed, instead of any times. Removes ambiguity.

^ This.

And not just for external destination displays, but on-board announcements, platform displays/announcements and tickets too. Would also really help cut-down on possible mistakes boarding the incorrect train with Advance or TOC-specific tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

^ This.

And not just for external destination displays, but on-board announcements, platform displays/announcements and tickets too. Would also really help cut-down on possible mistakes boarding the incorrect train with Advance or TOC-specific tickets.

Yep, completely agreed. We should use "flight numbers" (and every train has one - the Retail Service ID) and they should be on the PIS, on the doors, on the tickets etc.

 

[jon0844]

"See label above window" What a stupid idea, why not just have it in both places?

Very useful for people who may not understand English that well too.

Why the heck can't you show the coach number more than once?

 

[transmanche]

"See label above window" What a stupid idea, why not just have it in both places?

Why the heck can't you show the coach number more than once?

Because that would negate the whole point of the trial!

 

[jon0844]

Because that would negate the whole point of the trial!

But why come up with a trial? Who will be monitoring it to see if it's a success?

As has been said before, different stock has stickers/displays at different positions. People cope.

There is perhaps an argument for having consistency and the DfT standardising the position of displays then making sure EVERY new train complies, as well as older trains when refurbished, but that isn't happening and probably never will.

There will be more than enough differences with the 800s to confuse people beyond what coach it is. Tourists and irregular travellers wouldn't know where things were before anyway.

 

[transmanche]

But why come up with a trial?

That's already been answered upthread.

 

[edwin_m]

Wherever it is, the directions to seat numbers should be in the same place as the coach letter as they are both needed to select the correct door. It would be easy enough to put the seat numbers in the new elevated position too, with an arrow pointing diagonally downwards towards the door.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Wherever it is, the directions to seat numbers should be in the same place as the coach letter as they are both needed to select the correct door. It would be easy enough to put the seat numbers in the new elevated position too, with an arrow pointing diagonally downwards towards the door.

If they copy the GWR layout for signage the seat number locator is still going to be by the door. Here's a bad picture I took at Paddington last night. It shows that the digital displays are nowhere near as clear as the ones VTEC are trialling on the mk 4.



It might be worth emailing VTEC with your suggestion the seat numbers should go under the coach letter display. That would mean when the Azuma launches all the info is in the one place - coach letter, seat numbers and destination.

 

[whhistle]

Alternatively get rid of coach letters and solve the problem all together.
Means you'd have to get rid of seat reservations, but this whole half-half reservations thing just doesn't work that well.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Alternatively get rid of coach letters and solve the problem all together.
Means you'd have to get rid of seat reservations, but this whole half-half reservations thing just doesn't work that well.

For intercity services getting rid of reservations is not a good idea. Many people would not book a long trip without the certainty of a seat (remember flying, driving and coach are also options so people have a choice).

Although getting rid of reservations would mean they wouldn't need to bother with trying to get the electronic reservations working (I've heard that project has had a setback today but that's for another thread)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not *marking* reservations but instead having reserved and unreserved coaches (or areas on shorter trains) is to me the way to go.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Because that would negate the whole point of the trial

What trial? It's not like they'll move the carriage letter on the IEP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What trial? It's not like they'll move the carriage letter on the IEP.

On the 9-car sets they may well add stickers if it's confusing too many people. On the 5-car ones they can't as they might be doubled up.

This directly reflects what happens on VTWC - stickers on Pendolinos, "see electronic display" (which isn't in a dissimilar position) on Voyagers.

 

[transmanche]

What trial?

See post #15.

 

[Tetchytyke]

See post #15.

Yes, I saw that, but it's hardly a "trial" if the carriage signs are going to be in that position on the IEP.

 

[transmanche]

Yes, I saw that, but it's hardly a "trial" if the carriage signs are going to be in that position on the IEP.

I thought it fairly obvious that the trial related to deciding if it's worth making the same signage change to all existing stock or not.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Having seen it in person today I do think the new location is more convenient to see. The signs are very clear (much clearer than the digital displays on the 800).

 

[xotGD]

Having seen it in person today I do think the new location is more convenient to see. The signs are very clear (much clearer than the digital displays on the 800).

Agreed - I saw the set in Leeds, very clear signage.

 

[cactustwirly]

Not *marking* reservations but instead having reserved and unreserved coaches (or areas on shorter trains) is to me the way to go.

Not really, what happens if a "reserved coach" is only partially reserved?
You'd be wasting half a coach worth of capacity

 

[superalbs]

Not *marking* reservations but instead having reserved and unreserved coaches (or areas on shorter trains) is to me the way to go.

Which would be great for groups to sit together, which is why people might reserve in the first place!

 

[edwin_m]

There's a very long thread on whether seat reservations are a good thing elsewhere on the forum.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/should-seat-reservations-be-abolished.162792/

 

[Clip]

Yep, completely agreed. We should use "flight numbers" (and every train has one - the Retail Service ID) and they should be on the PIS, on the doors, on the tickets etc.

Didn' take long for we don' like change but we should make changes for changes sake to be posted.

How does printing anything on a ticket when I purchase a ticket that allows me on any train?

The uproar about stickers being placed higher up to see them more clearly is rather disturbing