And whether the Azuma name will be continued!Having skimmed through the flurry of postings today, I gather the main issue about this repeated franchising debacle is what colour the trains will be painted.
And whether the Azuma name will be continued!Having skimmed through the flurry of postings today, I gather the main issue about this repeated franchising debacle is what colour the trains will be painted.
I just think that including 'London' in the name takes away the significance from the East Coast, the North, and Scotland, whereas GNER at least bracketed it all under the one banner ('Great'). It's like calling 'GWR'; 'LWR', just doesn't sit right IMO.
As I said though, much more important things to worry about. So long as the new set up runs smoothly that's all that matters
And whether the Azuma name will be continued!
Having skimmed through the flurry of postings today, I gather the main issue about this repeated franchising debacle is what colour the trains will be painted.
I have a bigger problem with the 'Eastern' bit of the name. The old LNER included the former Great Northern and Great Eastern companies, but the new LNER is really just the Great Northern railway's mainline (and I suppose the NER, if you must.) Is anywhere served by LNER east of London?
I just think that including 'London' in the name takes away the significance from the East Coast, the North, and Scotland, whereas GNER at least bracketed it all under the one banner ('Great'). It's like calling 'GWR'; 'LWR', just doesn't sit right IMO.
As I said though, much more important things to worry about. So long as the new set up runs smoothly that's all that matters
A thoughtful and we'll considered post.
In riposte, I would suggest that Great North Eastern Railway made more effective and creative use of the heritage of the route while incorporating it into a modern brand - "Route of the Flying Scotsman" and all that, cast metal crests on the HST and Pullman sets, but still completely eschewed the traditional image by adopting their striking flame red and navy blue identity. It just leaves me scratching my head when a historically significant name rears it's head, and the enthusiast crowd jumps on the bandwagon screaming "Ooh, paint it apple apple green! Paint it garter blue!", despite the fact that brand awareness, customer expectations, technological advances in design and, more importantly, the aesthetics of train design, have moved far beyond simply painting a few stripes around the boiler straps of a steam loco.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of nostalgia and a great follower of the LNER of old. And I'm often one of the first to decry the fleeting fashionability of many of today's excessively complex livery schemes that rely on vinyl application for their execution. The mid thirties were not a halcyon age for the railways: The LNER was run constantly on a shoestring, and beyond the few well publicised glamour trains, the daily experience of a regular traveller on LNER services was probably of slow, dirty and dated trains. That's not to denigrate the efforts of the staff at the time however, who undoubtedly did do their best to keep things moving, in the days when the railway frequently was a real family.
As I understand it all TOC booking engines are effectively either the Trainline based ancient one, or the slightly less ancient Capita-owned one (RedSpottedHanky et al). I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the existing engine rebranded and given a new font, possibly removing Nectar points. I'm pretty sure it's the same platform that East Coast used, and NX before, and GNER before that.
Really? Teak effect vinyl? That would just look utterly, utterly appalling.Given that only Tourist stock on the LNER had any green in its livery, I'd suggest that Apple Green would be suitable for power cars, but passenger trailers/coaches would be more aptly liveried with some form of teak-effect vinyl
Yes.
Take a look at a map online that has proper grid-lines and you'll find how many places lie East of London.
To make it clear, I'm not suggesting that an exact recreation of the original livery would be suitable, merely that using small amounts of those shades or effects could act as a subtle refrence to the past without seeming old-fashioned.Given that only Tourist stock on the LNER had any green in its livery, I'd suggest that Apple Green would be suitable for power cars, but passenger trailers/coaches would be more aptly liveried with some form of teak-effect vinyl, or, perhaps, two-tone grey in the manner of the Silver Jubilee. Though I like the two-tone blue of the Coronation service, it wouldn't work with Apple Green.
Any worse than the teak-effect paint scheme of the post-Gresley steel-bodied stock?Really? Teak effect vinyl? That would just look utterly, utterly appalling.
Having skimmed through the flurry of postings today, I gather the main issue about this repeated franchising debacle is what colour the trains will be painted.
Probably not! I just think teak-effect is an appalling look generally.Any worse than the teak-effect paint scheme of the post-Gresley steel-bodied stock?
Pretty standard reaction of many alas. I guess it's an easier subject to talk about than looking at why VTEC failed, and if there are underlying structural problems with the rail franchising model.
I'd suggest that it would be much better to use the colours from the "Silver Jubilee" in 1935 but applied in a modern way.To make it clear, I'm not suggesting that an exact recreation of the original livery would be suitable, merely that using small amounts of those shades or effects could act as a subtle refrence to the past without seeming old-fashioned.
In fairness, we may have touched on that topic in the thousand-odd postings before today. And today the only really new information was the new operator, the changeover date, and the new logo. The rest was politicking.Pretty standard reaction of many alas. I guess it's an easier subject to talk about than looking at why VTEC failed, and if there are underlying structural problems with the rail franchising model.
I assume they were taking the mickey with that suggestion Surely no one would suggest a teak vinyl it would be like sticking faux tudor beams on a brand new apartment block.Really? Teak effect vinyl? That would just look utterly, utterly appalling.
I have a bigger problem with the 'Eastern' bit of the name. The old LNER included the former Great Northern and Great Eastern companies, but the new LNER is really just the Great Northern railway's mainline (and I suppose the NER, if you must.) Is anywhere served by LNER east of London?
It's all well and good for a private enterprise to aspire to 'greatness', I suspect the new LNER will do little more than keep the job running until the brains at DfT work out what they want to try next...
Yes, I was somewhat speechless after reading that paragraph.Anyone else just got the email from VTEC? Particularly this bit...
I'm afraid I don't know enough about the industry as it currently exists, or have sufficient interest in what I find to be dry management/political matters to discuss the structural reasons for the failure of the VTEC franchise or the precise technicalities of how the re-nationalised entity will operate. If the moderators determine that members must either work within the rail industry or pass an exam on franchising and political oversight of the rail network in order to post, then I'll agree to my account being deleted or implement a self-regulated ban on posting, but, until then, provided that I'm not consistently leaving O/T comments or transgressing the posting rules I'm afraid I might continue to occasionally post comments that you deem beneath your no doubt elevated and rareified level of expertise. I rerely post on this forum, and, so far, have only discussed the historical relevance of the LNER brand and musing as to how the heritage associated with that brand might be used on the ECML under a re-nationalised franchise in this thread. I feel that this is a more productive and self-aware approach than pontificating on something of which I have little knowledge, i.e. the technicalities of VTEC's financial position or the process of determining who is awarded the franchises.Pretty standard reaction of many alas. I guess it's an easier subject to talk about than looking at why VTEC failed, and if there are underlying structural problems with the rail franchising model.
Done badly I agree, and I certainly think that too much of it would be OTT on modern stock, but a small amount, perhaps just a stripe below window level on an otherwise clean, minimal livery might be an interesting and unusual idea.Probably not! I just think teak-effect is an appalling look generally.
But then that reinforces Clansman's point that the North East and London are emphasised at the expense of Scotland, Yorkshire and so on. Let's be honest, they've just picked the closest historical-sounding name that hadn't been used already,But the route serves the North East of the UK. Hence the NE.....
I'm interested in how they'll cover the Virgin brand on the inside though, especially if it's embroided in to the seats...
We've been going on about the underlying problems of the rail franchising model for the last twenty years !
No harm in a little speculation over the new brand.
In fairness, we may have touched on that topic in the thousand-odd postings before today. And today the only really new information was the new operator, the changeover date, and the new logo. The rest was politicking.
Faux teak has been done before, albeit prior to the introduction of vinyl overlays.I assume they were taking the mickey with that suggestion Surely no one would suggest a teak vinyl it would be like sticking faux tudor beams on a brand new apartment block.
Yes, I was somewhat speechless after reading that paragraph.
Indeed - if it's of any interest, I prefer the idea of vertical integration with running powers where necessary to re-Nationalisation. However, I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable on the details of the current financial situation or the legisltive difficulties of the various possible alternatives to the current model to feel confident in arguing for that preference beyond suspecting it might be more politically expedient for a Conservative government (which I expect to last for at least another decade given the shambolic nature of political opposition in this country) to back a privatised alternative to the current set-up rather than a Bevan-esque move to nationalise the system.Fair comment - including that of w0033944 above.
Hmm. Green. Teak vinyl. Interesting and unusual. What does that remind me of...Done badly I agree, and I certainly think that too much of it would be OTT on modern stock, but a small amount, perhaps just a stripe below window level on an otherwise clean, minimal livery might be an interesting and unusual idea.