Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[NSEFAN]

I don't think so at all, it isn't a big franchise really. The issue is the totally unrealistic figures bandied about every time franchise bidding starts.

Agreed. I think that if the government want franchising to work then they need to be less greedy on premiums and also let longer franchises (as per Chiltern), so that the company has an incentive to make the franchise sustainable.

 

[Emblematic]

I don't think so at all, it isn't a big franchise really. The issue is the totally unrealistic figures bandied about every time franchise bidding starts.

I'd agree - not too big as such, but what the airlines would call a 'long and thin' route. It doesn't have the benefit of busy, lucrative commuter flows which the other inter-city franchises have. It faces competition from other TOCs, open access operators and airlines on almost all of its routes. The idea of taking on some of the TSGN commuter routes is a step in the right direction, but doubtful it's enough. Too much of the traffic is variable, depending on the state of the economy.

 

[Malcolmffc]

Almost all points of the compass named have a TOC now...

London & North Eastern Railway
London North Western Railway
South Western Railway
Southeastern
Great Northern
Southern
Great Western Railway

 

[Bletchleyite]

new logo and branding is a bit of a rush job - company is called London & North Eastern Railway, yet the logo and motive effectively point to NW and SE

Unless you want it to look like it's Russian, I think it was just "having a pointy letter like the gWr branding".

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Agreed. I think that if the government want franchising to work then they need to be less greedy on premiums and also let longer franchises (as per Chiltern), so that the company has an incentive to make the franchise sustainable.

But excellent though Chiltern are , they make very little money out of it for all their work - and HS2 and the battle for Birmingham is on the horizon for "cheap" fares , so what is the answer down line ?

Answers in a sealed envelope to Marsham Street.

PS - Apple Green / Teak .....please forget this ? , or should we go back to coal burning A3 and A4 traction ?

 

[Domh245]

yet the logo and motive effectively point to NW and SE.

You can't do much else with the letter N though. Also, remember that Edinburgh is actually west of London, ditto Newcastle, Leeds, York and pretty much all major destinations on the ECML

What will West coast be called if virgin lose out ?
Abellio stole the LNWR rather than retain London Midland

LMS is still available

 

[NSEFAN]

But excellent though Chiltern are , they make very little money out of it for all their work - and HS2 and the battle for Birmingham is on the horizon for "cheap" fares , so what is the answer down line ?

Very little money perhaps, but I would have thought that the security of a much longer franchise must add to the attractiveness? Longer term I would expect Chiltern and indeed the conventional WCML to have greater focus on commuter traffic and less fighting for Birmingham traffic. There's not really anywhere else it could go. If the later phases of HS2 happen then I expect the ECML south of York to have a similar experience.

 

[mmh]

White roofs are a practical choice to give ailing air conditioning systems a bit of help. But you can do them like London buses - colour to above visible level and the white just on the centre of the roof. That way dirt isn't as visible.

The white roofs on London buses only started about a decade ago, I seem to remember they were a reaction to an unusually hot summer, but read that they'd had no significant effect.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As silly as this sounds, my worry is LNER removing the first class head cushions. They've got Virgin on so I imagine they'll disappear, but they are very comfortable and the seat headrest piece on its own is just so hard and uncomfortable.

 

[corsaVXR]

You can't do much else with the letter N though.

Assumes that your options are limited to just playing about with the N.

It just doesn't sit right full stop - everything is pointing to the left, associated with backwards. This is either a subversive move by Grayling, given his thoughts on nationalisation, or it's just a rush job.

 

[bastien]

Having skimmed through the flurry of postings today, I gather the main issue about this repeated franchising debacle is what colour the trains will be painted.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the seats don't change. Just imagine...

 

[Goldfish62]

The white roofs on London buses only started about a decade ago, I seem to remember they were a reaction to an unusually hot summer, but read that they'd had no significant effect.

They certainly do have some effect, albeit somewhat small. On trains a white roof certainly wouldn't be a foil to a failed aircon system.

 

[Steamysandy]

Reminds me of a piece in Modern Railways many years ago about a new supertrain for the East Coast Mainline which could do 126 mph down Stoke Bank.
You turned the page and it was revealed as a pair of A4s sandwiching a set of coaches!
Now that seems to fit in with Graylings no more electrification ideas!

 

[nidave]

Sorry to be uber geeeky - the font looks like it is open sans with the height reduced slightly without keeping the aspect ratio (font geek)

 

[corsaVXR]

Sorry to be uber geeeky - the font looks like it is open sans with the height reduced slightly without keeping the aspect ratio (font geek)

I think the below would have been more appropriate

 

[43096]

Assumes that your options are limited to just playing about with the N.

It just doesn't sit right full stop - everything is pointing to the left, associated with backwards. This is either a subversive move by Grayling, given his thoughts on nationalisation, or it's just a rush job.

It looks to me like a mash-up of the GNER lettering (including the bolder 'NE') and GWR (the pointy bits on the 'N') with a slightly different font. So for me, it's a rush job, and isn't very original.

 

[w0033944]

I think the below would have been more appropriate

Gill Sans?

 

[thenorthern]

The Labour Party is calling for re-nationalisation again as if under a Labour government the East Coast Franchise failed they would re-nationalise the railways oh wait.

 

[WatcherZero]

Wait a couple of months and you will get the union cry that as its now a state run railway they can afford to give their workers a larger pay rise than negotiated.

 

[matt_world2004]

Every single east coast railway franchise has over bid for the cost

GNER
NXEC
VTEC

 

[transmanche]

I take on board that he's not going to be doing a 40-hr working week at LNER; I'm simply pointing out a political hypocrisy in that he has a full time job running the West Midlands already, and this sort of situation has bitten quite a few high-profile politicians in the past.

It didn't stop BoJo carrying on with his 'journalism' whilst Mayor of London (arguably a bigger job than Mayor of the West Midlands) and getting himself elected as an MP with a year of his mayorship still left...

 

[transmanche]

The white roofs on London buses only started about a decade ago, I seem to remember they were a reaction to an unusually hot summer, but read that they'd had no significant effect.

There's a secondary reason. It makes the buses stand out on CCTV used by bus controllers and makes it easier to read the identification information painted on the roof.

In this case, a VLW class (Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini) number 92 operated by Arriva London.


Aerial roof markings on London bus
CC BY-SA 3.0, by KRoock74, from Wikimedia Commons

 

[AlterEgo]

White roofs are a practical choice to give ailing air conditioning systems a bit of help. But you can do them like London buses - colour to above visible level and the white just on the centre of the roof. That way dirt isn't as visible.

Very difficult to keep a white roof clean on a train. Either you get diesel staining or carbon deposits from the pan (see 390s for this effect).

 

[AndrewE]

It looks to me like a mash-up of the GNER lettering (including the bolder 'NE') and GWR (the pointy bits on the 'N') with a slightly different font. So for me, it's a rush job, and isn't very original.

Good. LNER shows where it goes (- from London, but I'm a bit sorry Scotland doesn't get a mention!) Stop wasting time and money on consultants and paint jobs and focus on running the trains. I agree a lot of its destinations are west of London, but they are on the east side of England.

There's a secondary reason. It makes the buses stand out on CCTV used by bus controllers and makes it easier to read the identification information painted on the roof.

In this case, a VLW class (Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini) number 92 operated by Arriva London.


Aerial roof markings on London bus
CC BY-SA 3.0, by KRoock74, from Wikimedia Commons

Also to police helicopters etc...

 

[Class172]

Gill Sans?

Yes, Gill Sans indeed.

 

[TUC]

I notice in Chris Grayling's statement he refers to 'the team that has been working for me since last autumn to form the Operator of Last Resort' so it looks like things have been happening behind the scenes for more thsn the last couple of months.

 

[johntea]

Apologies if I missed it, but why LNER rather than just good old 'East Coast' again?!

 

[Kite159]

Wait a couple of months and you will get the union cry that as its now a state run railway they can afford to give their workers a larger pay rise than negotiated.

Or as it's a state run railway, pay rises are capped at the public sector cap so sorry RMT where we would love to meet your demands for a 5% payrise our arms are tied to a 1% rise.

 

[43096]

Every single east coast railway franchise has over bid for the cost

GNER
NXEC
VTEC

Yes, and there’s one common denominator in all three contracts. Does that give a clue as to where a large part of the responsibility has to be taken?

 

[cactustwirly]

As silly as this sounds, my worry is LNER removing the first class head cushions. They've got Virgin on so I imagine they'll disappear, but they are very comfortable and the seat headrest piece on its own is just so hard and uncomfortable.

Oh dear, it's the end of the world!