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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

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NorthKent1989

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Then why are there cheaper TOC restricted tickets for slower journys between stations elsewhere in the country? In fairness such examples on WCML to Birmingham and Liverpool are both long distance and a lot slower.

However even between London and Gatwick Airport, there are "Thamelink Only" fares which are a little cheaper. It would make sense for Thamelink to introduce similar fares to reflect the increased times.

Govia love to milk pretending how they are separate companies so it is only fair that their brands providing the slower services has a cheaper fare accordingly.

Yes, you are paying to go between stations but between stations on most routes in the country there is a cheaper fare for the slower routes, whether opting for London Midland over Virgin, Southern over Southeastern, Thameslink over Southern or Northern over Transpenine Express, there is usually always a lower fare available. That is the reason why the fares should decrease, or at least a more restricted TOC only fare introduced.

Plus, don't the poor people of Medway and North Kent deserve any compensation for the increased times?

Good points, the Medway does deserve this since we do have a parallel premier service, the HS1 so yes Thameslink should make fares cheaper for making our journeys longer


Those "slower TOC only" fares tend to exist because they want to use up the capacity on their train and do so by undercutting the other TOC on price, there are very few people who would pay an equal amount (or more) to go slower. As there is no competitor, the comparison is irrelevant.

Perhaps they do deserve compensation if the increased times are taking the mickey - I've not seen it reported anywhere how much longer the journeys will be, but I suspect it is nearer to 5 minutes than 15.

It's going to be longer than five minutes, with the added stations I've calculated an increase time of 10-15 mins, and that's not taking into account the dwell times at each station, so it'll probably be a 15 min increase time, let's not forget that this service, despite missing out three stations will still be longer than a stopper.
 
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Andrewh32

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Not looking good in my area (Peterborough) seem to be a fair number of cancellations today
 

BluePenguin

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I await tomorrow's Twitter meltdown with baited breath :)!
As will I! I am placing my bets on there being a complete meltdown with hundreds complaining they are late for work having not checked the new timetable over the weekend to find their normal journey either doesn't exist anymore or is much slower

It will be an interesting day to say the least lol.
 

AM9

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Good points, the Medway does deserve this since we do have a parallel premier service, the HS1 so yes Thameslink should make fares cheaper for making our journeys longer ...
So how would you suggest that the cost of any price reduction is funded?
 

AM9

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As will I! I am placing my bets on there being a complete meltdown with hundreds complaining they are late for work having not checked the new timetable over the weekend to find their normal journey either doesn't exist anymore or is much slower

It will be an interesting day to say the least lol.
I think that will be the biggest issue, i.e. "nobody told me". It's been difficult avoiding TV, radio and postered information on the changes. Those who haven't travelled for a number of weeks/months don't have any excuse either as anybody shouldn't reasonably expect their particular train services to remain unchanged forever.
 

MotCO

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Yes the Catford loop line does need 4tph but where else can they go after Bromley South other than Orpington? Certainly 4tph to Sevenoaks via Swanley wouldn't be justified. I don't think terminating trains from Victoria at Bromley South is ideal, it's just likely to cause more congestion on the narrow island platforms as well as possible delays to other trains. The only other option would be 6tph to Orpington.
I'm all for more frequent services, but I'm not sure there's significant untapped demand between Orpington and Bromley to justify 6tph (stoppers).

From a diagramming point of view, if all 4tph from Vic continued on to Orpington I'm guessing it might need another unit?

Presumably the terminator will reverse in platform 1 or 2 at Bromley South (yes, presumably that brings risks of getting in the way of other services if things aren't running to time).

A general comment - the Catford Loop line has been in dire need of the extra Thameslink services to take it up to 4tph for a long time (though introduction of the class 700 trains did provide a bit of respite in requiring fewer contortionist skills when cramming oneself onboard!). The new arrangement seems fair enough.

According to RealTimeTrains, the trains from Victoria will arrive on platform 2, and return to Victoria from that platform. Typically they have 8 minutes between arrival and departure, but if the departure is 3 minutes late, following trains from Blackfriars will be delayed.
 

Antman

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According to RealTimeTrains, the trains from Victoria will arrive on platform 2, and return to Victoria from that platform. Typically they have 8 minutes between arrival and departure, but if the departure is 3 minutes late, following trains from Blackfriars will be delayed.

I think platform 2 is the only place that they can be reversed?
 

Ianno87

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I think platform 2 is the only place that they can be reversed?

Alternative during late running may be to turn back short at Beckenham Junction or Kent House to prevent knock on delay. It may be the case that, as stoppers are every 15 minutes, the next one won't be far behind anyway.
 

Taunton

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Shambles now in the national media

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-44188947

"A GTR spokesman added: "We are working hard to minimise the impact this will have on our busiest trains. This situation will improve."

So they are working to address issues on their "busiest" trains (ie weekday peak). Presumably anyone travelling outside these times can go and get stuffed.
 

Iggy12a

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At least the TVMs at Gatwick are selling a ticket to London Thameslink, with an automatic popup of the applicable stations. IMG_20180520_124950846.jpgIMG_20180520_125001507_HDR.jpg
 

Minstral25

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Don't know how to quote from closed threads so I hope this works.

TSR - Yesterday
One of the more ridiculous things about the timetable recast is that the Redhill area still has a completely different timetable on Sundays compared to the rest of the week - not just timings or frequencies, which will regularly be the case across the whole country - but the variety of destinations is completely different and in fact vastly improved!”

The Destinations change because the Reigate to Victoria service is reduced from Half-hourly weekdays to hourly so GTR are stopping an Arun Valley train to maintain Redhill’s 2tph to Victoria.

The LBG/Thameslink service is to keep stopping patterns so as the Peterborough service is only running hourly the Cambridge service (also running hourly) is diverted via Redhill to match the weekday service.

If the timings hadn’t been changed it’s not thus a completely different timetable but just a different arrangement of the weekday service.


Jonathan H – Yesterday
Yes, I agree - 6tph on Sunday from Redhill to virtually everywhere possible (other than a certain South coast seaside resort that the locals are fixated about having direct trains to) with better timings than on a weekday is generous provision. I hope the people in Redhill make use of it.”

It is overkill at Redhill for 6 tph on Sunday. However according to GTR Brighton (I assume you mean) is the 7th most popular destination from Redhill, so not so much fixation but disappointment


Quote TSR – today
I have mentioned the Redhill issue in direct response to another poster - the choices behind the destinations offered and the consistency/usability of services there is clearly a problem, and there will be others like it. There are also places where this once-in-a-generation (theoretically...!) opportunity has been completely overlooked.”

I’d concur with that. There is a lot of Victoria usage from the Redhill line and the new much slower services do not reflect that and the loss of Brighton services which still remains a top destination from Redhill with the forced changes at Gatwick will be very unpopular.

Of all the flip side, Reigate is very much a station from which London Bridge is preferred as GTR agreed, but the loss of all direct services with the arrival of the half-hourly Victoria train will also hurt local passengers.

I do agree with a lot of your thoughts. I also predict on Monday we will hear a lot about ruined journeys rather than improvements. Probably with School kids having to make 2 or 3 changes instead of a direct train.

The Peterborough to Horsham service has also caused the loss of a local all stations train from Purley to Horsham which means for the missed stations a lot of difficulties and waiting to change. It will end up skip stopping a lot as well I expect.
 
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Impey0711

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The 12:11 Gatwick to Peterborough was cancelled today due to operational issues
 

London Trains

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This may be getting worse, as I have rechecked some trains and now a lot of Southern metro services have messages such as "this train may not run" or "this is not part of the timetable and may be cancelled or only run today." Sounds a bit iffy.
 

Mike395

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Tomorrow is going to be a interesting day across the GTR network one thinks... after a big timetable rehash such as this I'm never too critical of minor teething issues, but I fear this one is going to be considerably more than minor if all the recent speculation I've heard (and read on here!) regarding driver availability/rostering is to be believed.

It's telling that my query pressing into the graphic advising some Bedford-Brighton services are being 'phased in' has been completely ignored.
 

ComUtoR

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Tbut I fear this one is going to be considerably more than minor if all the recent speculation I've heard (and read on here!) regarding driver availability/rostering is to be believed.

Some of us have been posting about it for months but constantly got dismissed as naysayers and doom mongers.

The cancellations are not just limited to GTR Thameslink either. The knock on effect they are having is impacting other, non GTR services.
 

Bishopstone

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GTR's social media feeds now suggesting (without specifics) there will be cancellations tomorrow: presumably in addition to the services being 'phased in' over the next month, and in addition to the overnight and early morning services that were quietly canned in another update last week.

In terms of timetable uncertainty, we're back to the dark days of the 2016 industrial dispute, not knowing - the night before - whether we'll make it to work on time, the next day.
 

jon0844

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Tomorrow is going to be a interesting day across the GTR network one thinks... after a big timetable rehash such as this I'm never too critical of minor teething issues, but I fear this one is going to be considerably more than minor if all the recent speculation I've heard (and read on here!) regarding driver availability/rostering is to be believed.

It's telling that my query pressing into the graphic advising some Bedford-Brighton services are being 'phased in' has been completely ignored.

Didn't some TL drivers get rushed over to GN to help? That could be causing some of the disruption to TL services today?
 

Mike395

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GTR's social media feeds now suggesting (without specifics) there will be cancellations tomorrow: presumably in addition to the services being 'phased in' over the next month, and in addition to the overnight and early morning services that were quietly canned in another update last week.

In terms of timetable uncertainty, we're back to the dark days of the 2016 industrial dispute, not knowing - the night before - whether we'll make it to work on time, the next day.

I'd argue this has the potential to be worse than the height of the 2016 dispute - the 2016 dispute by and large only had major effect south of London, the MML is likely to feel the brunt of any issues this time too, especially as Bedford/Luton commuters can no longer use peak EMT services.
 

jon0844

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I have no doubt there are going to be some tough questions going forward on how today turned into such a fiasco.

The key issue was a shortage of drivers, not trains running late, missing slots etc. Drivers who didn't volunteer to work rest days, which they absolutely do not have to do (before I get jumped on as anti-driver!) and it being known in advance that things would go wrong. Hence my post in the small hours of today saying they'd already gone to yellow alert before the first trains had started.

I assume GTR was begging drivers to come in right up until yesterday, but if a large number had been out drinking then it was impossible. Once GTR realised they weren't going to get last minute volunteers, the chaos began and all the amended services started to show up that have left many stations with no trains for over three hours.
 

Mikey C

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Cancellations on the "historic" route from Luton into STP also today.
 

radamfi

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Journey planners are already showing some cancellations for tomorrow morning. For example, 0420 Luton to Sutton, 0722 and 0752 St Albans to Sutton.
 

talltim

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Ahh yes the "increased (but slower) journey opportunities".

Let's hope somebody official doesn't read this post and get any ideas!
Yo're taking up valuable space on the train for longer, you need to pay more :rolleyes:
 

talltim

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So how would you suggest that the cost of any price reduction is funded?
Presumably they are reckoning of getting more passengers by stoping in more places (otherwise why do it?) There's your extra revenue.
 

mmh

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And there we have it http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/191459.aspx

I hope nobody is planning a trip from Higham..

Short-term timetable amendments mean fewer trains are able to run. Train services running across the whole Govia Thameslink Railway network are running as normal but some services may still be revised.

We anticipate disruption will continue until the end of service on Friday 8 June.

8th of June??

New carriages need to be introduced to operate the service. Some of these carriages are currently stored off the network. To get them to what will be their home depots; the train operators must also move some of the existing trains off the network and switch over to the new rolling stock.

What complete nonsense. It really grates when a TOC's PR machine blatantly lies and insults people's intelligence like that. All day the Thameslink twitter account has been telling people cancellations were due to "an operating incident".

Unfortunately those of us who feared it would be a farce seem to have been right.
 

theironroad

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Does anybody know how many services have been cancelled today compared to the planned service (excluding engineering work).? If so, is there a breakdown as to cause of cancellation?
 

Failed Unit

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I have no doubt there are going to be some tough questions going forward on how today turned into such a fiasco.

The key issue was a shortage of drivers, not trains running late, missing slots etc. Drivers who didn't volunteer to work rest days, which they absolutely do not have to do (before I get jumped on as anti-driver!) and it being known in advance that things would go wrong. Hence my post in the small hours of today saying they'd already gone to yellow alert before the first trains had started.

I assume GTR was begging drivers to come in right up until yesterday, but if a large number had been out drinking then it was impossible. Once GTR realised they weren't going to get last minute volunteers, the chaos began and all the amended services started to show up that have left many stations with no trains for over three hours.

Not looking good for tomorrow evening and I need to go to London tomorrow.

GTR are however bullet proof. The will be investigated, review will show they are incompetent. Nothing further will happen and Charles Horton laughs all the way to the bank with his bonuses.

Glad this has hit the mainstream media, along with customer view points the new timetable is worse. Unfortunately too little too late.
 
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