Class 365s to Scotrail

[alangla]

Fare evasion is huge on the E-G, whether it’s intermediate travellers (Falkirk to Croy/Linlithgow) or passengers buying tickets once they arrive at either end, lying about where they came from.

I think there also a fair number of trains that go to the through platforms at Edinburgh at later times.

Yep, plus the flexi-pass as a daily season ticket brigade - you can spot these as they're always scrambling for a pen on the rare occasion a gripper appears on board.

 

[gordonjahn]

Yep, plus the flexi-pass as a daily season ticket brigade - you can spot these as they're always scrambling for a pen on the rare occasion a gripper appears on board.

In fairness, having just arrived back home from the station where there are no trains running, who'd fill it in before a train actually shows up?!? I can't imagine getting your money back/ a replacement on a filled-out but unused paper flexipass is easy or quick. Besides, that'll all be fixed when they're all on Smartcards.

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

any news of more coming?

 

[Chris125]

I think therein lies the problem. Although I am basically a supporter of privatisation, one of the things that appears to have been lost is standardisation in areas like gauging.

Surely that was something that came about under BR - perhaps the most obvious example are the 165s/166s which exploited the more generous loading gauge of ex-GW routes.

If anything privatisation has helped - the rolling stock market, and the possibility that fleets may move multiple times during their working life, has given ROSCOs an incentive to procure 'go anywhere' designs like the Electrostar and Turbostar.

 

[fgwrich]

Surely that was something that came about under BR - perhaps the most obvious example are the 165s/166s which exploited the more generous loading gauge of ex-GW routes.

If anything privatisation has helped - the rolling stock market, and the possibility that fleets may move multiple times during their working life, has given ROSCOs an incentive to procure 'go anywhere' designs like the Electrostar and Turbostar.

I rather agree with you there. Don’t forget that NSE also had a particular habit of specifying electrical couplers to be at a different height or the opposite way around to other BR stock of the era - to quote Chris Green and his team “to not allow Reagional Railways to poach it’s own stock”. Ok, so the 185s May be the only post privatisation DMU that may be difficult to transfer but that’s more down to the specifications they were built for than anything else.

 

[hexagon789]

Surely that was something that came about under BR - perhaps the most obvious example are the 165s/166s which exploited the more generous loading gauge of ex-GW routes.

If anything privatisation has helped - the rolling stock market, and the possibility that fleets may move multiple times during their working life, has given ROSCOs an incentive to procure 'go anywhere' designs like the Electrostar and Turbostar.

Privitisation has definitely helped the rolling stock market. Though I do wonder whether we'd have some of the stick we have now if BR still existed.

Mind you if BR still existed we might have had HSTs in Scotland already including on the E&G, I'm not sure we'd be having the hotchpotch stock situation and the transfer of 365s.

 

[stu99]

Any updates since they were out on the 10th and the 11th? It seams to have gone quiet.

 

[scotraildriver]

Lots of conductor training this week at Eastfield so less movement. Also alot of focus on the modified 385 this week as well.

 

[stu99]

Lots of conductor training this week at Eastfield so less movement. Also alot of focus on the modified 385 this werk.as well.

ahh that is good to know, thanks

 

[InOban]

Any rumours on the performance of the modified windows?

 

[td97]

Any rumours on the performance of the modified windows?

You'd be better off asking here
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-class-385-discussion.126141/page-74

 

[158_Reason]

I know the step boards have been removed from these 365s for clearance issues, But looking at the videos there's plenty of room at the platforms for these. If you compare the videos of them leaving stations down south and stations up here, there doesn't seem to be any reason for removing them. There@s equipment below the sole bar level which sits above the platforms here the same as it does down south. A bit technical but seems another over reaction by boffs up here. I don't like them without the step boards the doors look an odd shape but I am a fan of 365s overall and i'm pretty sure some clown on the E and G will miss the step and fall over.

 

[Domh245]

I know the step boards have been removed from these 365s for clearance issues, But looking at the videos there's plenty of room at the platforms for these. If you compare the videos of them leaving stations down south and stations up here, there doesn't seem to be any reason for removing them. There@s equipment below the sole bar level which sits above the platforms here the same as it does down south. A bit technical but seems another over reaction by boffs up here. I don't like them without the step boards the doors look an odd shape but I am a fan of 365s overall and i'm pretty sure some clown on the E and G will miss the step and fall over.

The stepboards were removed temporarily so that they could get training on them ASAP. Unfortunately looking at it and going "ah, it'll be fine" isn't a particularly fool proof method, so whilst they run the numbers and verify that they won't hit the platform when heavily loaded, on adverse cant, etc, the stepboards come off. With any luck, they go back on as they were, but worst case they need 'shaving' before reattaching.

 

[D365]

A bit technical but seems another over reaction by boffs up here.

You know something that the Network Rail rolling stock engineers don’t?

 

[Highlandspring]

The step boards will have 45mm removed from them before the units can enter service.

 

[gingertom]

The step boards will have 45mm removed from them before the units can enter service.

doesn't sound like an expensive or time-consuming mod.

 

[D365]

Angle grinder will do the trick!

 

[hwl]

Angle grinder will do the trick!

Not neatly though.
Sounds like custom jig for a milling machine time...

 

[cjmillsnun]

I rather agree with you there. Don’t forget that NSE also had a particular habit of specifying electrical couplers to be at a different height or the opposite way around to other BR stock of the era - to quote Chris Green and his team “to not allow Reagional Railways to poach it’s own stock”. Ok, so the 185s May be the only post privatisation DMU that may be difficult to transfer but that’s more down to the specifications they were built for than anything else.

I’m waiting to see what will happen to the 458/5s post SWR. I have a feeling they will sit in sidings unused.

 

[59CosG95]

I’m waiting to see what will happen to the 458/5s post SWR. I have a feeling they will sit in sidings unused.

Surely that's a question for a separate thread; this thread was set up regarding the transfer of 365s to ScotRail, not 458s to somewhere other than SWR.

 

[urpert]

I’m waiting to see what will happen to the 458/5s post SWR. I have a feeling they will sit in sidings unused.

I'm hoping they will form part of Stagecoach's successful bid for Southeastern

 

[43096]

I'm hoping they will form part of Stagecoach's successful bid for Southeastern

Which is also nothing to do with ScotRail 365s.

 

[D365]

Discussion of Southeastern/Kent franchise options continues here.

 

[Clansman]

I’m waiting to see what will happen to the 458/5s post SWR. I have a feeling they will sit in sidings unused.

I'm hoping they will form part of Stagecoach's successful bid for Southeastern

Already proposed & discussed to death by most members (including myself) in other threads which may interest you should you use the search bar at the top right.

EDIT: In addition to D365's post, the most recent and relevant thread on 458 speculation and what not can be found here.

 

[158_Reason]

You know something that the Network Rail rolling stock engineers don’t?

most people on this seem too, so stuck my bit in too. I suppose working for network rail gives me the edge tho.

 

[Far north 37]

Not neatly though.
Sounds like custom jig for a milling machine time...

Sounds like you dont know much about the fabrication industry i am a fabricator myself and that is a tiny minor job that any skilled fabricator could accomplish leaving the same finish as that of a milling machine in a fraction of the time we build warships oil rigs and giant steel structures in the uk trimming a step board wouldnt exactly be hard.

 

[Jonny]

Does anyone know which routes the 365s used/will use to come to Scotland?

 

[InOban]

Does anyone know which routes the 365s used/will use to come to Scotland?

According to much earlier posts the first two came up by road but the third was hauled up the wcml. Haven't heard since. I don't know how many have arrived by now.

 

[ScottDarg]

According to much earlier posts the first two came up by road but the third was hauled up the wcml. Haven't heard since. I don't know how many have arrived by now.

Only 4 365s in Scotland at the moment.

The first 3 came up by road (365513, 517 & 523) and the 4th (525) came up via the WCML. There's been no moves since 365525 arrived earlier this month (11/05/18).

365513 and 523 are at Eastfield. 517 and 525 are still at Springburn I believe.

 

[ScottDarg]

RailEngineer has posted an article today that talks about the start of full electric service between Glasgow Queen St & Edinburgh via Falkirk High using Class 365s: https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/06/01/full-glasgow-to-edinburgh-electric-service-in-july/

With electrification delays and windscreen problems on the new Hitachi class 385 EMUs, passengers between Scotland’s two big cities have been waiting for some time for their promised new trains. As 16 of the class 170 DMUs that operate this route are being transferred south to Northern this year. Hence it looked like this service would get worse before it got better.

Now there is to be a full 8-car electric service between Edinburgh and Glasgow in July offering 27 per cent more seats. This will be possible as a result of ScotRail’s rapid introduction of displaced four-car class 365 EMUs as an interim arrangement. These units recently worked London to Peterborough services and have now replaced by Thameslink Class 700 EMUs.

They are known as the ‘happy train’ as a modification to fit cab air-conditioning included a ‘grinning’ cab front air intake.

As these units were not gauge cleared, the first three units were transported to Scotland by road with the first one arriving at the end of April to allow static training and modification work to start. Although there was some criticism of this road movement, it enabled preparatory work in Scotland to start as soon as possible to ensure an earlier introduction of the units.

Within a relatively short time of two weeks, the gauge assessment had been completed to allow the remaining units to come to Scotland by rail and for driver training to start.

This assessment showed that, to run in Scotland, the units required a bogie centre pivot packing piece to raise them by 20 mm and for their passenger doorway steps to be cut back by 45 mm. This work is being done by Knorr-Bremse RailServices at Springburn in Glasgow. Initially the units used for driver training have all their doorway steps removed to avoid the need to wait for a modified unit before this training could start.

The demanding programme to introduce these units in a short timescale involves ScotRail, Network Rail, DGauge, SNC Lavalin, Eversholt Rail, Knorr-Bremse RailServices and their previous operators, Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) who have provided support for maintenance training at their Hornsey depot. ScotRail is also in close consultation with the trade unions concerned. All parties are working closely together to ensure that these units can be introduced as soon as possible.

Meanwhile, the problem with the curved windscreens fitted to the class 385 EMUs is close to resolution. On 25th May, ScotRail announced that after trialling a unit fitted with a flat windscreen, feedback from all parties, including the driver’s union Aslef, is that this flat windscreen is fit for purpose. However, before they can enter service, the type approval process has to be finalised, mileage accumulations runs are required and the new flat windscreens need to be fitted to the units that have already been built. This is also to be done at the Knorr-Bremse RailServices depot at Springburn.

With the uncertain timescale to resolve the class 395 windscreen problem and existing units due to be sent south, ScotRail’s introduction of the class 365 units as an interim measure will ensure provide the required extra seats on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route as soon as possible. However now that there is a solution for the class 395 windscreen problem, it will be interesting to see which of these two types of units is the first to enter passenger service between Edinburgh and Glasgow.