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Overnight allocation of Northern fleet

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geoffk

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Does someone have a list of locations where Northern units are stabled overnight, i.e. not at depots? Are there always units stabled at a train crew depot, e.g. Barrow and Buxton?
 
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mervyn72

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I believe units are stabled at these crew locations:
Heaton
Darlington
York
Harrogate
Neville Hill
Leeds
Skipton
Holbeck
Hull
Doncaster
Sheffield
Carlisle
Workington
Barrow
Blackpool
Wigan
Stockport
Newton Heath
Longsight
Buxton
Allerton
Liverpool Lime Street
Blackburn
Cleethorpes

And also at Ilkley, Preston and Bradford Forster Square with crews taxied in/out
 

Bovverboy

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I don't think Stockport, Newton Heath, Longsight, and Allerton are crew depots, although rolling stock is stabled there. One or two of the NE bases are doubtful, too.
On the other hand Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria are crew depots, and at the latter point two Class 319s are stabled overnight. I think units are stabled at Chester, but possibly not every night.
Note that units are not always stabled in the immediate vicinity of the crew depot. Units stabled at Wigan, for instance, are actually stabled at three separate locations.
 
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IanXC

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I don't think Stockport, Newton Heath, Longsight, and Allerton are crew depots, although rolling stock is stabled there. One or two of the NE bases are doubtful, too.

What's doubtful about Heaton and Darlington?
 

DarloRich

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One or two of the NE bases are doubtful, too

there are only 2 north east bases on the list: Darlington and Heaton. Both are used nightly.

There is an ECS form Boro to Heaton via Darlo every night and the first train to Boro from Darlo is formed of a unit that sleeps over night at Darlington station. There is even a shunt to get them into the bay platform.
 

Bovverboy

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there are only 2 north east bases on the list: Darlington and Heaton. Both are used nightly.

Actually, I was considering Neville Hill and Holbeck to be 'North-East' - they were in the North Eastern Region, weren't they?
As to Heaton beng a crew depot, on another thread Heaton is not quoted as being a crew depot, but Newcastle is. Certainly for Heaton to be a crew depot would be going very much against the trend of recent decades. In any case only about five DMU sets (I think) start and finish their day at Heaton, and there must be many many more Tyneside-based Northern crews than that.

There is an ECS form Boro to Heaton via Darlo every night and the first train to Boro from Darlo is formed of a unit that sleeps over night at Darlington station. There is even a shunt to get them into the bay platform.

I don't in any way contest the notion that Darlington is both a crew depot and a DMU stabling point.
 

DarloRich

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Actually, I was considering Neville Hill and Holbeck to be 'North-East' - they were in the North Eastern Region, weren't they?
As to Heaton beng a crew depot, on another thread Heaton is not quoted as being a crew depot, but Newcastle is. Certainly for Heaton to be a crew depot would be going very much against the trend of recent decades. In any case only about five DMU sets (I think) start and finish their day at Heaton, and there must be many many more Tyneside-based Northern crews than that.



I don't in any way contest the notion that Darlington is both a crew depot and a DMU stabling point.

No worries - i only know where the trains live.
 

Loop & Link

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Actually, I was considering Neville Hill and Holbeck to be 'North-East' - they were in the North Eastern Region, weren't they?
As to Heaton beng a crew depot, on another thread Heaton is not quoted as being a crew depot, but Newcastle is. Certainly for Heaton to be a crew depot would be going very much against the trend of recent decades. In any case only about five DMU sets (I think) start and finish their day at Heaton, and there must be many many more Tyneside-based Northern crews than that.

If by 5 you mean up to 10 sets starting their day at Heaton you’d be right.

No crew depot, Newcastle crew taxied there.
 

Bovverboy

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If by 5 you mean up to 10 sets starting their day at Heaton you’d be right.

According to RTT, only five sets start at Heaton. Two of those then split at Newcastle, one does so at Darlington, and one does at Middlesbrough. The only one which doesn't split at all is the one which does Newcastle to Glasgow via Carlisle, which I deduce must be a four-car set.

Did you mean ten units?
 

DanNCL

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The only one which doesn't split at all is the one which does Newcastle to Glasgow via Carlisle, which I deduce must be a four-car set.
The 06:30 Newcastle - Glasgow via Carlisle is usually a 2 car set, in the form of a ScotRail 156. When I used it a couple of weeks ago, just after the timetable change, it worked into Newcastle from Heaton attached to a Northern 156 and a 142, both of which detached at Newcastle and went on to their own diagrams. I think the ScotRail 156 might work to Heaton on it's own in the evening though, after arriving into Newcastle from Glasgow.
 

Bovverboy

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According to RTT, only five sets start at Heaton. Two of those then split at Newcastle, one does so at Darlington, and one does at Middlesbrough. The only one which doesn't split at all is the one which does Newcastle to Glasgow via Carlisle, which I deduce must be a four-car set.

The 06:30 Newcastle - Glasgow via Carlisle is usually a 2 car set, in the form of a ScotRail 156. When I used it a couple of weeks ago, just after the timetable change, it worked into Newcastle from Heaton attached to a Northern 156 and a 142, both of which detached at Newcastle and went on to their own diagrams. I think the ScotRail 156 might work to Heaton on it's own in the evening though, after arriving into Newcastle from Glasgow.

I only assumed the Glasgow was a four-car unit after 'Loop & Link' had said ten sets worked out of Heaton in a morning, I presumed he meant units, and I could account for only nine. However I'm only guessing that all sets divide into single units, and they might not do.
The Scotrail 156 is scheduled to come from Heaton on its own, but I recognise that things might be varied day to day.
More units do return to Heaton as singles than depart there.
 
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DanNCL

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I only assumed the Glasgow was a four-car unit after 'Loop & Link' had said ten sets worked out of Heaton in a morning, i presumed he meant units, and I could account for only nine. However I'm only guessing that all sets divide into single units, and they might not do.
The Scotrail 156 is scheduled to come from Heaton on its own, but I recognise that things might be varied day to day.
More units do return to Heaton as singles than depart there.
There is a morning working from Heaton to Hexham, which is a single unit, and the unit that works 2N02 Newcastle - Nunthorpe also leaves Heaton as a single unit. The ECS for the Glasgow service does appear to be booked for a single unit, so I'm not sure why it was attached to two other units when I saw it the other week!

I make that 7 units that depart each morning, and 7 units that return each evening. There are also two mid morning ECS workings from Newcastle back to Heaton, and two mid afternoon workings from Heaton to Newcastle. From what I can tell the mid morning/mid afternoon workings to/from Heaton are both single units, making it 9 units that work to Heaton (one of them is ECS York - Heaton), and 9 units that leave Heaton (all appear to stay within the North East) each day.
 

Bovverboy

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There is a morning working from Heaton to Hexham, which is a single unit, and the unit that works 2N02 Newcastle - Nunthorpe also leaves Heaton as a single unit. The ECS for the Glasgow service does appear to be booked for a single unit, so I'm not sure why it was attached to two other units when I saw it the other week!

I make that 7 units that depart each morning, and 7 units that return each evening. There are also two mid morning ECS workings from Newcastle back to Heaton, and two mid afternoon workings from Heaton to Newcastle. From what I can tell the mid morning/mid afternoon workings to/from Heaton are both single units, making it 9 units that work to Heaton (one of them is ECS York - Heaton), and 9 units that leave Heaton (all appear to stay within the North East) each day.

According to RTT this is the standard M/F routine.

3D00 0507 ECS Heaton-Middlesbrough splits at Middlesbrough into 2D00 0622 Middlesbrough-Saltburn and 2W03 0659 Middlesbrough-Newcastle
5N04 0520 ECS Heaton-Hexham drops stock at Newcastle for 2N01 0600 Newcastle-Hexham
5A00 0530 ECS Heaton-Newcastle splits at Newcastle into 2A00 0555 Newcastle-Chathill and 2N02 0605 Newcastle-Nunthorpe
3D01 0535 ECS Heaton-Darlington splits at Darlington into 2D01 0624 Darlington-Bishop Auckland and 2D83 0634 Darlington-Whitby
5N03 0603 ECS Heaton-Newcastle forms 1S50 0630 Newcastle-Glasgow

Not only is the above what is scheduled, but RTT appears to indicate that it is what prevails in practice, too. So the above accounts for a minimum of nine units departing Heaton early mornings.
 

DanNCL

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According to RTT this is the standard M/F routine.

3D00 0507 ECS Heaton-Middlesbrough splits at Middlesbrough into 2D00 0622 Middlesbrough-Saltburn and 2W03 0659 Middlesbrough-Newcastle
5N04 0520 ECS Heaton-Hexham drops stock at Newcastle for 2N01 0600 Newcastle-Hexham
5A00 0530 ECS Heaton-Newcastle splits at Newcastle into 2A00 0555 Newcastle-Chathill and 2N02 0605 Newcastle-Nunthorpe
3D01 0535 ECS Heaton-Darlington splits at Darlington into 2D01 0624 Darlington-Bishop Auckland and 2D83 0634 Darlington-Whitby
5N03 0603 ECS Heaton-Newcastle forms 1S50 0630 Newcastle-Glasgow

Not only is the above what is scheduled, but RTT appears to indicate that it is what prevails in practice, too. So the above accounts for a minimum of nine units departing Heaton early mornings.
There are also two afternoon ECS workings, and one evening ECS working.
5N30 1425 ECS Heaton - Newcastle forms 2N30 1441 Newcastle - Nunthorpe
5N73 1744 ECS Heaton - Newcastle forms 1N73 1810 Newcastle - Carlisle
5A55 2207 ECS Heaton - Newcastle forms 2A55 2222 Newcastle - Darlington, then continues as 5A55 2306 ECS Darlington - York. I believe this working is usually formed of 2 142s, despite not splitting en route.

So this makes 13 units out of Heaton each day?
 

Bovverboy

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There is a morning working from Heaton to Hexham, which is a single unit, and the unit that works 2N02 Newcastle - Nunthorpe also leaves Heaton as a single unit. The ECS for the Glasgow service does appear to be booked for a single unit, so I'm not sure why it was attached to two other units when I saw it the other week!

I make that 7 units that depart each morning, and 7 units that return each evening. There are also two mid morning ECS workings from Newcastle back to Heaton, and two mid afternoon workings from Heaton to Newcastle. From what I can tell the mid morning/mid afternoon workings to/from Heaton are both single units, making it 9 units that work to Heaton (one of them is ECS York - Heaton), and 9 units that leave Heaton (all appear to stay within the North East) each day.

According to RTT this is the standard M/F routine.

3D00 0507 ECS Heaton-Middlesbrough splits at Middlesbrough into 2D00 0622 Middlesbrough-Saltburn and 2W03 0659 Middlesbrough-Newcastle
5N04 0520 ECS Heaton-Hexham drops stock at Newcastle for 2N01 0600 Newcastle-Hexham
5A00 0530 ECS Heaton-Newcastle splits at Newcastle into 2A00 0555 Newcastle-Chathill and 2N02 0605 Newcastle-Nunthorpe
3D01 0535 ECS Heaton-Darlington splits at Darlington into 2D01 0624 Darlington-Bishop Auckland and 2D83 0634 Darlington-Whitby
5N03 0603 ECS Heaton-Newcastle forms 1S50 0630 Newcastle-Glasgow

Not only is the above what is scheduled, but RTT appears to indicate that it is what prevails in practice, too. So the above accounts for a minimum of nine units departing Heaton early mornings.

There are also two afternoon ECS workings, and one evening ECS working.
5N30 1425 ECS Heaton - Newcastle forms 2N30 1441 Newcastle - Nunthorpe
5N73 1744 ECS Heaton - Newcastle forms 1N73 1810 Newcastle - Carlisle
5A55 2207 ECS Heaton - Newcastle forms 2A55 2222 Newcastle - Darlington, then continues as 5A55 2306 ECS Darlington - York. I believe this working is usually formed of 2 142s, despite not splitting en route.

So this makes 13 units out of Heaton each day?

It doesn't seem too long ago that you were telling us that there were only nine units which departed Heaton daily.

Okay, so if thirteen units depart Heaton each day, how many do you now reckon return there?
 

DanNCL

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It doesn't seem too long ago that you were telling us that there were only nine units which departed Heaton daily.

Okay, so if thirteen units depart Heaton each day, how many do you now reckon return there?
Apologies, when I was saying it was only 9 units I hadn't yet seen the afternoon ECS workings out of Heaton on RTT.

I suspect 13 units return as well; there's an ECS working from York to Heaton, which is probably a pair of 142s like the corresponding southbound move (which operates in service between Newcastle and Darlington), I'm not 100% certain on that one though.
 

geoffk

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I believe units are stabled at these crew locations:
Heaton Darlington York Harrogate Neville Hill Leeds Skipton Holbeck Hull Doncaster Sheffield Carlisle Workington Barrow Blackpool Wigan Stockport
Newton Heath Longsight Buxton Allerton Liverpool Lime Street Blackburn Cleethorpes Ilkley, Preston and Bradford Forster Square
I assume then that at many of these locations trains are stabled in the station platform, e.g. at Ilkley and Buxton
 

clagmonster

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Cleethorpes only has a Northern unit stabled Friday to Sunday nights. On Monday - Thursday nights, a Northern unit is only stabled if there is an overnight possession between Wrawby Jn and Lincoln, which happens every few weeks. As it happens, this week is one of those weeks. Cleethorpes is also not a Northern train crew depot, although there is a TPE train crew depot there which supplies TPE crews for Northern services.
 

scrapy

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A unit is left at Lancaster on a Saturday night and also one left at Stoke during the week.
 

Bovverboy

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I assume then that at many of these locations trains are stabled in the station platform, e.g. at Ilkley and Buxton

I am aware of the following locations on the west side of Northern's network where DMUs/EMUs are stabled in station platforms, although not necessarily every night. There are probably others, and I'll leave it to someone else to attempt an east side list.
Carlisle
Lancaster
Blackpool North
Southport
Wigan North Western
Wigan Wallgate
(Wigan constitutes a single crew depot, I wouldn't know at which of the two stations it's located. DMUs are also stabled at Wigan Wallgate Down Sidings, a short way up the Southport line from Wallgate station)
Bolton (infrequently)
Liverpool Lime Street
Chester
Crewe
Stoke-on-Trent
Buxton
Manchester Piccadilly
Manchester Airport
(Not all the above locations are crew depots)

Units are also stabled at the following points (sidings close to a passenger station), there is no covered accommodation, and, although some are titled 'maintenance depot', the maintenance is usually limited to daily checks. At some, diesel fuel is available, however. No units are permanently allocated to these points. Here again, there may be others.
Workington
Barrow
Blackpool North
Preston
Wigan Wallgate
Manchester Victoria
Stockport
(Not all the above are crew depots)

EDIT: It's Wigan Wallgate Up Sidings which are used for DMU stabling. The Down Siding is used solely for reversals.
 
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darloscott

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I am aware of the following locations on the west side of Northern's network where DMUs/EMUs are stabled in station platforms, although not necessarily every night. There are probably others, and I'll leave it to someone else to attempt an east side list.
Carlisle
Lancaster
Blackpool North
Southport
Wigan North Western
Wigan Wallgate
(Wigan constitutes a single crew depot, I wouldn't know at which of the two stations it's located. DMUs are also stabled at Wigan Wallgate Down Sidings, a short way up the Southport line from Wallgate station)
Bolton (infrequently)
Liverpool Lime Street
Chester
Crewe
Stoke-on-Trent
Buxton
Manchester Piccadilly
Manchester Airport
(Not all the above locations are crew depots)

Units are also stabled at the following points (sidings close to a passenger station), there is no covered accommodation, and, although some are titled 'maintenance depot', the maintenance is usually limited to daily checks. At some, diesel fuel is available, however. No units are permanently allocated to these points. Here again, there may be others.
Workington
Barrow
Blackpool North
Preston
Wigan Wallgate
Manchester Victoria
Stockport
(Not all the above are crew depots)
Blackburn to add to the second list

As for Eastern side... I'll have a go!
Heaton Depot (crew base would be Newcastle)
Holbeck & Neville Hill Depots (crew base would be Leeds)
Hull Depot
and the following stations...
Darlington
York
Leeds
Doncaster
Sheffield
Huddersfield
Bradford FSq
Ilkley
Skipton (Broughton Road Sidings just outside the station)
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Blackburn to add to the second list

As for Eastern side... I'll have a go!
Heaton Depot (crew base would be Newcastle)
Holbeck & Neville Hill Depots (crew base would be Leeds)
Hull Depot
and the following stations...
Darlington
York
Leeds
Doncaster
Sheffield
Huddersfield
Bradford FSq
Ilkley
Skipton (Broughton Road Sidings just outside the station)

Add Harrogate to the list.
 

Bovverboy

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Blackburn to add to the second list

I consciously omitted Blackburn since I'd read that there was covered accommodation there, and my list was expressly of sites which didn't have it. I've now rechecked and have concluded that there is no covered accommodation, therefore it should be included in the list.
 
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