Bristol Arena - Temple Meads or Filton?

[Envoy]

Under Mayor George Ferguson, it was decided that Bristol would have a new arena at Temple Meads. Now a new mayor will decide if an alternative site will be used at Filton - making use of the old hangers where they built Concorde. Although Filton has a railway station, it is a fair old walk from Filton airfield - which is likely to result in most people favouring cars as the means of reaching the site. People would also have to transfer to shorter trains in order to use Filton station whilst Temple Meads has all the trains using this major hub station, The Temple Meads site would be more difficult for those using car transport to reach the Arena.

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2018-06-12/where-should-the-arena-be-built/

A report commissioned by Bristol City Council on the city's long-awaited arena has suggested building the venue at the Brabazon hangar in Filton rather than on Temple Island by the city's Temple Meads station.

£9m has already been spent preparing the Island for the Arena but the development has been put on hold for the investigation.

 

[Mintona]

It depends whether Bristol wants people to use the train or their car to get to an event. And with the way Bristol seems to work, I’m certain that the car option will win, and add to the already dire congestion.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The proposed Filton site is:

• 46 minute walk to Patchway
• 36 minute walk to Filton Abbey Wood
• 51 minute walk to Bristol Parkway

However, if the Henbury line is reopened to passengers then I believe there could be the potential to build a station pretty much at the arena site where the line passes it.

Of course, the chances of that happening are, well, the council think 3 new bus routes (well 2 new routes and a replacement for an existing one) is some miracle cure for Bristol's public transport issues, so make your own mind up!

 

[7ftBroad]

Before the arena is built, the super metro tram system will be planned and cancelled again. The late train to Swindon will be to early for late show finishes. Best place to put would be m32 j1 north west side, Parkway not far and cars don't need to go far off motorway system.

 

[Envoy]

If they build it at Temple Meads it would be ideal for daytime events. However, many concerts don't finish until late at night - when the railways have virtually shut down. Even in the daytime, the railways appear to be unable to lay on the extra stock & crews to cope with sudden spikes in the number of passengers. We only have to look at rock concerts in Cardiff to see how the railways are simply not able to cope with stadium events which don't finish until late at night. That being so, it would appear that the Filton site might be the better option as it could offer extensive car parking and is near to the motorways.

Cardiff seems to cope better for sporting events than rock concerts.
PS.Rolling Stones in Principality Stadium on Friday 15 June 2018.

 

[DarloRich]

surely they will just put buses on from Temple Meads

 

[Mojo]

surely they will just put buses on from Temple Meads

More likely Parkway which is significantly closer and more conveniently located for most rail customers.

Buses aren't really an ideal mode of transport for conveying large numbers of customers to and from events with a hard start and finish time.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If they build it at Temple Meads it would be ideal for daytime events. However, many concerts don't finish until late at night - when the railways have virtually shut down. Even in the daytime, the railways appear to be unable to lay on the extra stock & crews to cope with sudden spikes in the number of passengers. We only have to look at rock concerts in Cardiff to see how the railways are simply not able to cope with stadium events which don't finish until late at night. That being so, it would appear that the Filton site might be the better option as it could offer extensive car parking and is near to the motorways.

Cardiff seems to cope better for sporting events than rock concerts.
PS.Rolling Stones in Principality Stadium on Friday 15 June 2018.

Isn't this just about actually having a decent public transport system though?
Even without the arena I'm of the belief Bristol should get better later night services anyway.
London manages to get people away from the O2 and Brixton etc after concerts and the like.
And based on what I saw on RTT, it did look like there were some extra services from Cardiff Central the other night for Jay-Z and Beyonce.

Buses aren't really an ideal mode of transport for conveying large numbers of customers to and from events with a hard start and finish time.

Normal timetabled buses no. But specific buses for the event to shuttle people from the site to a convenient transport interchange? They work very well. Just look at how Reading FC do it every home game between , or how Twickenham does it for Rugby games.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Made In Bristol TV did show something in January about the proposed arena.

I say building it at Temple Meads would make sense as Temple Meads railway station is only round the corner, so its not exactly far to go and get your train home. Should it be built at Filton, I could imagine that all services would addtionally call at Filton Abbey Wood should there be a major event at the arena.

Either way, Temple Meads would be a better site.

 

[broadgage]

A couple of months ago, I met a local political figure who was pushing strongly for the arena to be located at Filton.
They saw no merit in the site near the station due to the lack of parking, the original plans had no parking for the public. Later plans have only very limited parking.

They were strongly opposed to the idea that visitors could travel by train to the new arena, for the following reasons.
1) rail travel is no good for most large sporting events because it is not known whom will play whom, until after the semi-finals, and that is insufficient notice to provide extra trains.
2) rail travel is no good for music events because when these finish, the railway is largely closed, or about to close for the night.
3) "the railway" can not cope with everyday commuters and holiday traffic, how would they cope with tens of thousands of passengers travelling to/from the arena.
4) For those events that CAN be planned well in advance, what happens if after the event has been planned and the tickets sold, the railway is then shut due to poor weather or engineering work.

This was BEFORE the two most recent bank holidays with attendant overcrowding and related problems, and was also before the widespread introduction of the new shorter trains (over 20 services yesterday consisted of a single 5 car new DMU when an 8 car HST would have been used previously)

 

[WelshBluebird]

Should it be built at Filton, I could imagine that all services would addtionally call at Filton Abbey Wood should there be a major event at the arena.

Not sure how much use would that be considering it is a 36 minute, not very nice, walk from the proposed site.
If it is built at Filton, then what really should happen is the Henbury line reopened with an additional station at the arena site. Of course, that would never happen, but it should.

A couple of months ago, I met a local political figure who was pushing strongly for the arena to be located at Filton.
They saw no merit in the site near the station due to the lack of parking, the original plans had no parking for the public. Later plans have only very limited parking.

They were strongly opposed to the idea that visitors could travel by train to the new arena, for the following reasons.
1) rail travel is no good for most large sporting events because it is not known whom will play whom, until after the semi-finals, and that is insufficient notice to provide extra trains.
2) rail travel is no good for music events because when these finish, the railway is largely closed, or about to close for the night.
3) "the railway" can not cope with everyday commuters and holiday traffic, how would they cope with tens of thousands of passengers travelling to/from the arena.
4) For those events that CAN be planned well in advance, what happens if after the event has been planned and the tickets sold, the railway is then shut due to poor weather or engineering work.

This was BEFORE the two most recent bank holidays with attendant overcrowding and related problems, and was also before the widespread introduction of the new shorter trains (over 20 services yesterday consisted of a single 5 car new DMU when an 8 car HST would have been used previously)

The point for lack of parking at the Temple Meads site is to push people to use public transport. There is still parking in and around Bristol, and people could use P&R's if needed. Just as happens in Cardiff (indeed the main issue for Cardiff when it comes to traffic for events is actually the M4 rather than Cardiff itself).

As for the other points:

1. Not sure what that has to do with the Bristol arena. It would be accurate for the Principality Stadium or Wembley, but has literally no relevance to the Bristol arena (as it is not a football / rugby etc venue). And even then, both the stadiums I mention deal fine with large sporting events.
2. Then run extra services for events, as is happening around Cardiff for the Rolling Stones concert and as happened in Cardiff for the Jay-Z / Beyonce concert.
3. Cardiff manages just fine. It's called a queuing system.
4. Poor weather - well you can say the same about the roads. Engineering work, I agree this is somewhere where the railway does seem to shoot itself in the foot a lot, but with proper planning and co-operating (which should be happening, "local political figures" should be trying to push for co-operation with the railways and other organisations, not face them off against each other) can be overcome.

As for the current situation, I agree GWR (and the DfT and Network Rail) have messed up. Big time. But it is just a temporary situation. By the time any potential arena is built, all the new trains will be in use (providing MORE seats and units than ever was the case with the HSTs) and there will be additional services between Bristol and London.

 

[MarkyT]

A couple of months ago, I met a local political figure who was pushing strongly for the arena to be located at Filton. They saw no merit in the site near the station due to the lack of parking, the original plans had no parking for the public. Later plans have only very limited parking

Sounds like someone who just doesn't like rail or may have some particular special interest against rail (or FOR its competitors) who is using the current public exasperation about rail generally to take advantage politically and derail (pun intended) well made plans. A Tory by any chance? Better evening services for event-goers would benefit the city centre nightlife generally and park and rides can be used or even set up especially for those who find regular rail services inconvenient. Evening special offers for parking at Bristol Parkway with a train connection might be promoted for example. I bet there are plenty of vacant spaces at Parkway after the evening peak arrives from the east.

 

[The Planner]

1. Poor weather - well you can say the same about the roads. Engineering work, I agree this is somewhere where the railway does seem to shoot itself in the foot a lot, but with proper planning and co-operating (which should be happening, "local political figures" should be trying to push for co-operation with the railways and other organisations, not face them off against each other) can be overcome.

Disagree, we have published our engineering works plan for 2019 since the back end of last year and will publish the first version of 2020 in autumn. I doubt many concerts and other events are planned that far out.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Disagree, we have published our engineering works plan for 2019 since the back end of last year and will publish the first version of 2020 in autumn. I doubt many concerts and other events are planned that far out.

So what is the deal with all of the short notice engineering works happening on the GWML at the moment then?
And the fact that in some cases the ToC's have not been told what trains can be run until a day beforehand?
There are discussions about those issues elsewhere on this forum, so we don't need to go over them here, but I am bringing up because in some cases the prior warning on engineering works or disrupted timetables has been in the weeks, not years.

 

[Wychwood93]

So what is the deal with all of the short notice engineering works happening on the GWML at the moment then?
And the fact that in some cases the ToC's have not been told what trains can be run until a day beforehand?
There are discussions about those issues elsewhere on this forum, so we don't need to go over them here, but I am bringing up because in some cases the prior warning on engineering works or disrupted timetables has been in the weeks, not years.

'Short notice' sort of explains it. The Planner is, quite possibly, one of those involved in long-term planning. A friend of mine from my Railtrack days at Waterloo in the 90's did much the same thing. You cannot plan for the unexpected.

 

[Envoy]

The Mayor of Bristol has declared that the Arena will not be at Temple Meads.

 

[Mintona]

It depends whether Bristol wants people to use the train or their car to get to an event. And with the way Bristol seems to work, I’m certain that the car option will win, and add to the already dire congestion.

The Mayor of Bristol has declared that the Arena will not be at Temple Meads.

I for one am shocked.

 

[158756]

It depends whether Bristol wants people to use the train or their car to get to an event. And with the way Bristol seems to work, I’m certain that the car option will win, and add to the already dire congestion.

The Mayor of Bristol has declared that the Arena will not be at Temple Meads.

I for one am shocked.

This decision only means that there will not be an arena with good rail access. I'd say there's at least a 50-50 chance people won't use their cars to get to a Filton arena either, because it won't be built - it has no planning permission, needs uncertain private funding, and like Temple Meads could alternatively be used for housing.

 

[SoccerHQ]

Shuttle buses from Bristol Parkway seem most obvious solution to me.

 

[w1bbl3]

The transport statement submitted with the original arena planning application back in '15 is worth a read if you want to understand how it was envisaged visitors would travel to and from the site back when the world+dog within the council and mayors office supported Arena Island choice extracts are:

"Based on the mode share of other arenas being about 80% car, with a full attendance of 12,000 persons, there would be 3520 cars seeking parking (including Park & Ride). "

"The Transport Assessment shows the existing off-street parking supply within a 20 minute walking distance, with 18 large primary car parks and 7 other smaller but available sites.
Weekday evening capacity of 6,506 shows 2,000 spaces available at 5.00 p.m. but increasing to 4,500 by 6.30 p.m. On this basis the arena users can be accommodated in existing stock."​

"We expect Park and Ride sites and Bristol Parkway to absorb a total of 1165 cars, leaving 2355 to be accommodated on site and within the city."​

The last element being interesting as the proposal was to use the very large carpark at Parkway as a park and ride site with additional arena trains on event days. This is thus described as "Great Western Railway has made an assessment of parking capacity and it is clear that there is adequate parking to cope with Arena-based trips given the profile of commuter parking at Parkway. Trips to the Arena can be accommodated by existing rail services as visitors will be arriving over an extended period. A late night shuttle will return visitors to Parkway after events end."

The interesting thing in the transport assessment is the concept of visitors travelling and returning a long distance via rail is not considered with report mentioning that "though only largely destinations east and west of the city are served by rail services beyond 2230-2300hrs during a weekday". The report refers to events occurring between 1930 and 2300, which is possibly why long distance rail isn't considered as the network is at that time very limited. IIRC there are only three scheduled weekday services from Temple meads after 23pm and before 1am, one of which is a HST.

Cardiff, Manchester and Leeds are examples of venues far better rail served late at night yet still the bulk of visitors choose not to use public transport. I can't see why a Bristol Arena would be any different.

In terms of Filton the proposed location is next to the henbury loop and it appears the developer is intending a new station to be constructed opposite to the site, an astute council could make this a planning condition for the development. The developers already approved proposals for the main Filton airfield site as housing and offices opposite do also propose a new station should be located in the general area to serve that development. Prior to concept of a Filton arena being floated publicly this year they've offered no prior indication what they had planned for the hangers which are truly massive. I do wonder if this was always in their thinking, amusing that the council ultimately wouldn't be willing (or able) to fund a £100m+ arena.

 

[bastien]

Shuttle buses from Bristol Parkway seem most obvious solution to me.

Staying on the train until you get to the Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff seems more likely.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Shuttle buses from Bristol Parkway seem most obvious solution to me.

Or, as w1bbl3 suggests, the reopening of the Henbury loop and a new station on that line.
Of course, that will never happen as it would require some actual joined up thinking and brain power behind decisions made. Something very much lacking when it comes to transport and infrastructure in the area!

The interesting thing in the transport assessment is the concept of visitors travelling and returning a long distance via rail is not considered with report mentioning that "though only largely destinations east and west of the city are served by rail services beyond 2230-2300hrs during a weekday". The report refers to events occurring between 1930 and 2300, which is possibly why long distance rail isn't considered as the network is at that time very limited. IIRC there are only three scheduled weekday services from Temple meads after 23pm and before 1am, one of which is a HST.

I think that is a bit unfair. Why couldn't part of the whole project be to improve the rail connectivity of Bristol after 11pm? it is something that really should happen anyway, and the Arena could have been the force needed to make it happen.

an astute council

So not Bristol then?

 

[Phil G]

I'm someone who would go to events at a Bristol arena using rail transport if there were sensible trains home at night. I live in Chippenham and there are no eastbound trains arriving beyond 23:00 and given night time entertainment within the town is so poor a late service from Bristol via Bath to say Swindon would be incredibly popular. Rail access to both Bristol and Bath is so quick and convenient from Chippenham that it is by far the best choice of transport however it all ends far too early to be of any use. To have been able to avoid car park queues and walk out of an arena at Temple meads onto a train home would have been great.