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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

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talldave

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Interesting you should mention that.

The stopper will be a class 9 train because it goes through the core. (Maybe the also might quietly forget about Maidstone)
The fast will only be a 1.

The stopper therefore is more important.

I think I’m reality you will see skip stopping on the stopper.

The problem is with everything on Thameslink becomes a class 9 is it isn’t actually important any more as everything is equal. Poor MML as the Sheffield trains or now the least important on that route.
With apologies for an off-topic question, why do people use the phrase "skip stopping" rather than "stop skipping"? Is this industry terminology?
 
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philjo

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0627 stopper from Cambridge today left 20 mins late so as a last minute alteration it called only at Hitchin and Stevenage - arrived Kings cross on time.
I ended up going via Finsbury Park to get to Potters Bar today as next stopper would be a 90 minute wait.
 

BRX

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There are a lot more options there though, which can help matters. Eg. there will be turnaround time for the late train, which may get it back on time. Or the stopper can be delayed leaving until after the fast. Such options aren't available with the Thameslink core.

Depends how much scope there is to re-order services before they enter the core, the stopper being held back to allow the fast through first. I guess this is the sort of thing we'll gradually see how things work in practice. But again, doesn't seem much point trying to draw many conclusions until the timetable gets a chance to operate in the way it was intended - ie with enough drivers.
 

Fred26

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With apologies for an off-topic question, why do people use the phrase "skip stopping" rather than "stop skipping"? Is this industry terminology?

I've never heard it outside this board and I've worked in various jobs coming up to fifteen years with different TOCs.
Drivers are issued with 'Special Stop Orders', which can either be 'Stop Additionally' or 'Not to Stop'. Usually (nearly always) just called Stop Orders.
 

tsr

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I've never heard it outside this board and I've worked in various jobs coming up to fifteen years with different TOCs.
Drivers are issued with 'Special Stop Orders', which can either be 'Stop Additionally' or 'Not to Stop'. Usually (nearly always) just called Stop Orders.

GTR internally refer to it as skip-stopping fairly often. The orders themselves are generally known as Special Stop Orders or Not To Call / Fail To Call Orders.

The current stocks of pre-printed order pads (where used) usually state along the lines of...

“To the Guard / Driver of [date + train details]

You are hereby instructed To Stop Specially At / Not To Call At [station/s]

Signed [station staff] on authority of [applicable controller / signaller / bloke/lady in a more important hi vis] ”
 

Fred26

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GTR internally refer to it as skip-stopping fairly often. The orders themselves are generally known as Special Stop Orders or Not To Call / Fail To Call Orders.

The current stocks of pre-printed order pads (where used) usually state along the lines of...

“To the Guard / Driver of [date + train details]

You are hereby instructed To Stop Specially At / Not To Call At [station/s]

Signed [station staff] on authority of [applicable controller / signaller / bloke/lady in a more important hi vis] ”

I work for GTR. I've never heard them called this. I've issued a few hundred myself, I'd imagine.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't want a row about it, just seems odd to me.
 
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notverydeep

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Far fewer cancellations so far today. Progress?

I think it is randomness or rather the effect of different drivers on each duty. Several of us were clutching at optimistic straws yesterday (page 74 of the thread) noting that 2C13 0727 Cambridge King's Cross and 2C06 0751 King's Cross Cambridge ran (at the moment these seem to be deleted by default), but today we are back where we were - neither has run. Similarly 9J13 0724 Peterborough Horsham (one of the few GN to core trains not deleted) was cancelled yesterday but ran today...
 

paul332

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Four successive cancellations towards ECR after 16.50 from STP isn't too pretty (to East Grinstead, Brighton, Gatwick and Horsham).
 

Ianno87

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The fasts seem to be generally ok, albeit that they add in Hitchin and Stevenage at the last minute.

Peak services are generally adding Letchworth, Stevenage and (sometimes) Finsbury Park on the Up, Hitchin and Letchworth on the Down, so are a few minutes late arriving at King's Cross/Cambridge respectively as a result.

Right Time starts are OK as there's plenty of turnround time at King's Cross/schedule bunce north of Cambridge to absorb the extra stops.

But peak departures from King's Cross are leaving full and standing throughout as a result, even the front of the 12 car workings! Get there at least a full 10 minutes before departure if you desire a seat!
 

ChiefPlanner

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26 min gap at Farringdon for anything northbound is not a good service for 1530 ......both Bedfords and Brighton caped , others running up to 51 mins late ,though I did see a Horsham (wihich loaded well no doubt with passengers for the BML urged to change at East Croydon)
 
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Working at Finsbury Park and having a meeting near Blackfriars should have been a decent journey with the new timetable. However, as far as I could make out there were no trains southbound in 1300 hour and no trains back in the 1600 hour. Tube to KX it was!
 

MML

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A 12 car Brighton to Bedford peak hour service that used to run perfectly, under the new revised slimmed down timetable operates ontime from Brighton to Three Bridges but then gets cancelled due to lack of drivers. Three Bridges is the main depot for goodness sake.
Meanwhile a Horsham to Peterborough does operate. Probably the only one today though.

Could I suggest a rebrand ?
Instead of Thameslink / lets have a redesigned brand logo. F/cking Thameslink It's what most customers are saying at the moment !
 

Agent_Squash

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The fact there were two questions on GTR at PMQs yesterday must be worrying the Government at this point.
 

notverydeep

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One of the areas on GN with much missing service so far has been the link between Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City and Stevenage / Letchworth and Cambridge in both directions planned to be provided by the Cambridge Slows. These seem to be particularly absent in the AM Peak and now there are some replacement buses indicated on Live Departures. One such train is 2C55 1744 Cambridge North to King's Cross. Strangely, the Northbound working (2C38 1551 London Kings Cross to Cambridge North) does seem to run. It ran yesterday and is running today. Real time trains shows that instead of 2C55, there is an 'STP' Empty in its path from Cambridge North to Hornsey running as 5E20 with the same timings as 2C55 until Alexandra Palace.

Does anyone know why this is planned to run empty, especially since it would seem that a replacement bus has been ordered to cover at least part of the trip? Given that it is DOO, it would seem possible to run it as a passenger train at least to Welwyn Garden City, even if it has to go to Hornsey.

Yesterday, once 1744 came and went and the train left Cambridge North, Live Departures started to show 2C55 as running after all and it appeared as 2C55 on Open Train Times' map. Real Time Trains didn't pick it up, but showed 5E20 as cancelled. RTT also seem to suggest it ran as 2C55 (but 'STP') on Monday and Tuesday. If it is going to run most days, why not reinstate it?
 
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Minstral25

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8 trains in a row cancelled from London Bridge towards the Redhill route - nothing from 5pm to 7:21pm, then the next gap to 8:51pm - 13 trains cancelled in total - 8 in a row then 5 in a row.
At least Southern added a train at 18:03 for Redhill only to get people home or within a taxi ride of home but it was totally full at least 10 minutes before departure so not really enough

When is this nightmare going to end!!
 

Teflon Lettuce

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I work for GTR. I've never heard them called this. I've issued a few hundred myself, I'd imagine.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't want a row about it, just seems odd to me.
you're brave admitting you work in a supervisory role at GTR :D
 

jon0844

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Buses from WGC to SVG have been timetabled all day even though virtually every Cambridge train ran. It's just a contingency measure.
 

tsr

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8 trains in a row cancelled from London Bridge towards the Redhill route - nothing from 5pm to 7:21pm, then the next gap to 8:51pm - 13 trains cancelled in total - 8 in a row then 5 in a row.
At least Southern added a train at 18:03 for Redhill only to get people home or within a taxi ride of home but it was totally full at least 10 minutes before departure so not really enough

When is this nightmare going to end!!

That 1803 off London Bridge must be getting busier as we move closer to the weekend then. I don’t think anyone was getting left behind earlier this week. Front few coaches seemed bearable (obviously full and standing though) on Tuesday when I actually used it.
 

evergreenadam

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That 1803 off London Bridge must be getting busier as we move closer to the weekend then. I don’t think anyone was getting left behind earlier this week. Front few coaches seemed bearable (obviously full and standing though) on Tuesday when I actually used it.

How many coaches is this formed of?
 

ChiefPlanner

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I have, but that doesn't make me a supervisor of any kind, I'm afraid.


Exactly - stop orders can be issued by competent platform staff , on instructions from the SDC.. (In my experience , some drivers happy not to take them , once when helping out in FCC days , I asked the driver to do some extra calls , and he happily did so , without a stop order , with the reassuring words), "you seem to know what you are doing". Top man. Was not an FCC employee at the time !
 

tsr

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How many coaches is this formed of?

12 on good days...

Exactly - stop orders can be issued by competent platform staff , on instructions from the SDC.. (In my experience , some drivers happy not to take them , once when helping out in FCC days , I asked the driver to do some extra calls , and he happily did so , without a stop order , with the reassuring words), "you seem to know what you are doing". Top man. Was not an FCC employee at the time !

There will imminently not be an SDC... all hail the ROC. (The GN staff shall be reminded of the hierarchy of swivel chairs.)
 

AM9

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... When is this nightmare going to end!!
I would suggest that Thameslink will probably be runnimng largely to the full timetable by September providing the driver training programme isn't delayed by somebody (an MP maybe looking for contituency praise) intervening so that they can 'be seen to be doing something'.
Whilst that may seem unbearable to some, the school holidays are approaching and commuting traffic falls (including on the roads) so even if some drivers are on holiday, there won't be quite so much pressure on those services that are running.
It might not be quite as complete as some might want but at least it seems that any daft ideas like reverting to the old (pre 20th May) timetables will be put back in their box.
 
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