Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[tsr]

Inside story there , as to who is in "the Big Chair" ?

Alas, no. Would I be that obvious? (My choice of chair has to vary anyway... and some days I work in places where there are no comfy chairs at all! )

There are some good "incumbents" up there though. The current GTR chaos would be a lot worse without them.

(Reminds me of the "emergency" (hmmm) whereby I accidentally ended up managing a reasonably large station in London for a little while one evening... station staff needed a break and the station manager was "not to be moved" from his cubby hole... needless to say I pretended very hard and managed to not set fire to anything!)

 

[bramling]

I would suggest that Thameslink will probably be runnimng largely to the full timetable by September providing the driver training programme isn't delayed by somebody (an MP maybe looking for contituency praise) intervening so that they can 'be seen to be doing something'.
Whilst that may seem unbearable to some, the school holidays are approaching and commuting traffic falls (including on the roads) so even if some drivers are on holiday, there won't be quite so much pressure on those services that are running.
It might not be quite as complete as some might want but at least it seems that any daft ideas like reverting to the old (pre 20th May) timetables will be put back in their box.

Any evidence to back up your rather specific September prediction, or is this basically just a stab in the dark?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

GTR internally refer to it as skip-stopping fairly often. The orders themselves are generally known as Special Stop Orders or Not To Call / Fail To Call Orders.

The current stocks of pre-printed order pads (where used) usually state along the lines of...

“To the Guard / Driver of [date + train details]

You are hereby instructed To Stop Specially At / Not To Call At [station/s]

Signed [station staff] on authority of [applicable controller / signaller / bloke/lady in a more important hi vis] ”

Skip / Stopping has long been a New York subway phrase to define their all-night service. During the day they are local (all stations) or express (main interchanges) at night alternate trains call at alternate stops so a relatively fast service is maintained and all stops are served. It is the first time I have encountered the term skip/stop - (circa 1977 Subway map)

 

[tsr]

Skip / Stopping has long been a New York subway phrase to define their all-night service. During the day they are local (all stations) or express (main interchanges) at night alternate trains call at alternate stops so a relatively fast service is maintained and all stops are served. It is the first time I have encountered the term skip/stop - (circa 1977 Subway map)

It even has the Thameslink " / " in the name

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I would suggest that Thameslink will probably be runnimng largely to the full timetable by September providing the driver training programme isn't delayed by somebody (an MP maybe looking for contituency praise) intervening so that they can 'be seen to be doing something'.
Whilst that may seem unbearable to some, the school holidays are approaching and commuting traffic falls (including on the roads) so even if some drivers are on holiday, there won't be quite so much pressure on those services that are running.
It might not be quite as complete as some might want but at least it seems that any daft ideas like reverting to the old (pre 20th May) timetables will be put back in their box.

..as soon as the Gargoyles turn from stone into living creatures and fly around at night to protect as from evil - stone by day, warriors by night.

I have more faith in them than Thameslink

 

[AM9]

Any evidence to back up your rather specific September prediction, or is this basically just a stab in the dark?

No, none at all, hence my use of the word 'suggest' which it seems that you didn't notice. This is however, a discussion forum so any 'evidence police' can be ignored.
If anybody here had any 'evidence', I'm sure that they would be sharing it without framing it in words like 'suggest'. Realistically, only speculation can be discussed at the moment. That speculation has no impact on what the DfT, NR or GTR actually do.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

No, none at all, hence my use of the word 'suggest' which it seems that you didn't notice. This is however, a discussion forum so any 'evidence police' can be ignored.
If anybody here had any 'evidence', I'm sure that they would be sharing it without framing it in words like 'suggest'. Realistically, only speculation can be discussed at the moment. That speculation has no impact on what the DfT, NR or GTR actually do.

My money's still on the Gargoyles

 

[Bishopstone]

Might one clue be that TL ticket acceptance on Gatwick Express has been arranged through to 31 August?

It could be they’ve just chosen a random month end and will review the situation again... or maybe they’re planning for a step-change in service levels, ready for when the kids and white collar workers return from summer hols?

 

[bramling]

No, none at all, hence my use of the word 'suggest' which it seems that you didn't notice. This is however, a discussion forum so any 'evidence police' can be ignored.
If anybody here had any 'evidence', I'm sure that they would be sharing it without framing it in words like 'suggest'. Realistically, only speculation can be discussed at the moment. That speculation has no impact on what the DfT, NR or GTR actually do.

Right, so a suggestion based on nothing. So it might be September, it might be August, perhaps October, or possibly never.

 

[bramling]

Might one clue be that TL ticket acceptance on Gatwick Express has been arranged through to 31 August?

It could be they’ve just chosen a random month end and will review the situation again... or maybe they’re planning for a step-change in service levels, ready for when the kids and white collar workers return from summer hols?

Coming from the same organisation who said in the weekend before implementation that disruption would be “minimal”, unfortunately I would find it hard to take seriously anything which emanates from anyone connected with this shambolic project.

 

[AM9]

Right, so a suggestion based on nothing. So it might be September, it might be August, perhaps October, or possibly never.

Yes that the truth about a discussion with no evidence from anybody. If you don't like it, and/or have nothing to contribute, there's no need to post.

 

[bramling]

Yes that the truth about a discussion with no evidence from anybody. If you don't like it, and/or have nothing to contribute, there's no need to post.

Most people when they make a prediction about something have at least something which backs up that assertion, be it hard fact, experience or opinion. Thusfar you’ve demonstrated none of those, making the September prediction pretty meaningless - unless of course you wish to take the opportunity to enlighten us on what you think or know about this situation?

 

[Bishopstone]

The 06.07 Three Bridges - Peterborough left 24 minutes late, and is now skip stopping between Gatwick and East Croydon, having lost another 5 minutes between Bridges and Gatwick!

Three Bridges is home to a yard full of 700s, and a driver depot. How can this scenario even happen, on one of the first trains of the day?

 

[MML]

The 06.07 Three Bridges - Peterborough left 24 minutes late, and is now skip stopping between Gatwick and East Croydon, having lost another 5 minutes between Bridges and Gatwick!

Three Bridges is home to a yard full of 700s, and a driver depot. How can this scenario even happen, on one of the first trains of the day?

Exactly. It can't be lack of drivers nor can it be a route knowledge thing as these services have been operating for some months now.
It appears that the driver to train service allocation is at fault and the whole system has become such a mess nobody really knows what is going on. Trains with no drivers and drivers with no trains.
There hasn't been an 'enhancement' to the computer system used to perform this task has there ?
At present it looks as if it is being cobbled together with pencil and paper, and someone has even lost the eraser.

 

[Minstral25]

That 1803 off London Bridge must be getting busier as we move closer to the weekend then. I don’t think anyone was getting left behind earlier this week. Front few coaches seemed bearable (obviously full and standing though) on Tuesday when I actually used it.

It was announced only 5-10 minutes in advance that it was calling at Redhill on Tuesday - probably only a few ITK went for it.

 

[Downthelane]

Loving the 'new' 9J11 08.08 Finsbury Park to Horsham service this morning.

Plenty of space on this train not sure what all the fuss is about....

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes that the truth about a discussion with no evidence from anybody. If you don't like it, and/or have nothing to contribute, there's no need to post.

To be fair your suggestion makes sense. September is when the bribe / fine for the last batch of poor performance ends. GTR have not really got an incentive to fix it before September as they know they are untouchable. Come October 1st when DFT can start fining them again they will feel the pain. So I by that logic the suggestion of sorting by September makes sense.

I have definitely notice loadings are lower now. Considering how many cancellations we have.

 

[Kanrakuq]

Loving the 'new' 9J11 08.08 Finsbury Park to Horsham service this morning.

Plenty of space on this train not sure what all the fuss is about....

We enjoyed watching its splendid progress from our platform at Arlesey! You were welcome to use our seats.

 

[BRX]

The 06.07 Three Bridges - Peterborough left 24 minutes late, and is now skip stopping between Gatwick and East Croydon, having lost another 5 minutes between Bridges and Gatwick!

Three Bridges is home to a yard full of 700s, and a driver depot. How can this scenario even happen, on one of the first trains of the day?

Exactly. It can't be lack of drivers nor can it be a route knowledge thing

Either of those things could have contributed. There have been several quite detailed posts on this thread which go some way to explaining how and why.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

A few weeks of annual leave and not having to struggle to get in to work - will Thameslink have it all sorted out when I return ?
More realistically it is now come to the point of fighting to re-establish parking spaces at our location.
Discouraging staff use of cars is all fine and well in a futuristic neverland where Peter Pan can magic all the trains to run on time but until that time arrives we need our parking spaces back.

 

[notverydeep]

Loving the 'new' 9J11 08.08 Finsbury Park to Horsham service this morning.

Plenty of space on this train not sure what all the fuss is about....

We enjoyed watching its splendid progress from our platform at Arlesey! You were welcome to use our seats.

9J11 shows as cancelled Peterborough to Finsbury Park in Real Time Trains, is that correct or did it run from Peterborough without showing on RTT?

9J13 did run from Peterborough today (6 late at Blackfriars). 9J13 is always described (well when it runs anyway) as a train to Gatwick on the station information systems, but Horsham on board. Does anyone know if it actually goes to Horsham and if so, why is it always shown as a Gatwick...?

 

[Spamcan81]

I would suggest that Thameslink will probably be runnimng largely to the full timetable by September providing the driver training programme isn't delayed by somebody (an MP maybe looking for contituency praise) intervening so that they can 'be seen to be doing something'.
Whilst that may seem unbearable to some, the school holidays are approaching and commuting traffic falls (including on the roads) so even if some drivers are on holiday, there won't be quite so much pressure on those services that are running.
It might not be quite as complete as some might want but at least it seems that any daft ideas like reverting to the old (pre 20th May) timetables will be put back in their box.

And in the meantime those who want or even need to travel by train can go whistle. Planning a journey on the GN section is largely pointless at present as you never know what's going to run, what and when things will be cancelled. But of course you St Albans types have more trains to chose from even allowing for the nonsense that is currently the GTL timetable so "I'm alright Jack."

 

[notverydeep]

I have analysed my record of 13 AM Peak trips from Welwyn Garden City to Blackfriars, since the new timetable was introduced. These have taken an average of 1 hour 16 minutes against a new timetable expectation of 1 hour and 3 minutes (itself an increase of 3 minutes over the old timetable).

Of 10 PM Peak trips for the return journey (excluding days when I have done something different on route home). These have averaged 1 hour 23 minutes against an expectation of 1 hour and 4 minutes (an increase of 1 minute over the old timetable). Two of these trips have ended up with me walking from Welwyn North back to Welwyn Garden City due to 2C55 1744 Cambridge North to King's Cross being reported as on time leaving Cambridge North, only to be very late leaving Cambridge. I can do this in circa 30 minutes, but generally the walk through Sherrards Park Woods is nicer, although it takes about 10 minutes longer - I don't hold GTR responsible for that at least...

This additional time adds up to 6 hours and 5 minutes across 22 journeys (32 minutes per day), on top of the expected 46 minutes (4 minutes per day) that the new timetable 'planned' to impose. Better information would help, I can think of at least seven occasions when I could have done the journey more quickly if I had had accurate information about what was running when I set out...

 

[Skimpot flyer]

l ...
The current stocks of pre-printed order pads (where used) usually state along the lines of...

“To the Guard / Driver of [date + train details]

You are hereby instructed To Stop Specially At / Not To Call At ...”

To paraphrase to movie ‘Jaws’...
You’re gonna need a bigger pad !

 

[tsr]

Charles Horton has “stepped down”...

 

[Downthelane]

9J11 shows as cancelled Peterborough to Finsbury Park in Real Time Trains, is that correct or did it run from Peterborough without showing on RTT?

9J11 rolled in empty from Hornsey to platform 1 at Finsbury Park at 8.05 and then ran to Horsham.

 

[OwenB]

Charles Horton has “stepped down”...

Indeed. Presumably absolutely nothing changes from a commuter point of view. Takes the heat off for a week or two politically though, I guess.

 

[JaJaWa]

Charles Horton has “stepped down”...

Will remain in post for a while to manage timetable introduction

 

[gavin]

Now on sky news

Govia Thameslink Railway boss Charles Horton has tendered his resignation, the company has confirmed.

More follows...

https://news.sky.com/story/govia-thameslink-boss-resigns-after-disruption-11405625

 

[Failed Unit]

Indeed. Presumably absolutely nothing changes from a commuter point of view. Takes the heat off for a week or two politically though, I guess.

Nope. But at least it goes to show lying is not acceptable.

Lets look at my statement in 2 ways. On 22nd May he basically brushed off the problems as teething problems.

1. He has lying so isn’t fit for the position he is in.

2. The statement he issued he believed to be correct. So he didn’t actually have a clue about the issues his organisation was facing. Again not fit to be in the position.

Hopefully Chris Grayling will be following soon.