Blackpool North: The most unfriendly station in the country?

[TheKnightWho]

The reason that they do not like spotters on platform is that it is and has always been a closed station...The gates are for passenger control and to have other persons on platform means issues with knowing where people are.
I worked on rail replacement there,2005 to 2010 and found the staff pretty ok,and in fact pre the modern barriers were a bit easy going,bar if you tried to go through the platform gates.
Trainspotters have to remember that a station is a controlled area,and that with all H&S and insurance issues,they can dictate what you can of can't do...Must say though some of the passengers at weekends were interesting to say the least!!

And what is the reason for it being closed? "It's always been this way" is rarely a good excuse in today's management book.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Lugger Hotel on the seafront. Does an amazing range of vegetables

The whole of Blackpool seafront is an interesting array of vegetables.

 

[Sheepy1209]

When I worked there (not in any position to alter things) I saw the biggest inconvenience to passengers was the late opening of gates before train departure causing apprehension amongst some that they may miss the train.

And apprehension amongst train crew too, judging by the look on the guards' faces as they're ready and waiting but can't find anybody to open the doors. I see this regularly and while I can't hear what's being said it does look like tempers can get a bit frayed too.

Another reason for late opening can be when there's an incoming train that's late (especially if it's the next one to board) as they try to clear the platforms first. It can get pretty congested between the platform ends and the building so it makes sense. Other things can be fixed - e.g. absence of departure screens on the platforms.

To be honest since the barriers were installed I think the doors are the least of most passengers' worries - a far bigger issue is the crowding in the tiny amount of concourse outside the barriers, and problems coping with a full trainload arriving - as there are far more families, big suitcases and pushchairs than you see at most stations. Lots of confused people too, as they're often not regular rail users.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

So if Blackpool North is a closed station as described above are there anymore closed stations then?
Should we make Kings Cross or Birmingham New Street closed stations then?

As I think if you tried that method of working there then it would be utter chaos.

Think the best bet would be to demolish the whole place and start again with a new station and new staff and lets see how the place performs then.

Wonder what Northerns higher management think of the situation?

Unless it's changed recently, doesn't London Euston operate in the same way?

 

[Sheepy1209]

Unless it's changed recently, doesn't London Euston operate in the same way?

It still seems to operate in that way for the Virgin services, and it's easily worse than Blackpool North. Late platform announcements, the concourse is a long way from the platforms, there's a mad scramble to the platform gates, mayhem at the gates themselves (especially when they randomly call passengers down the adjacent ramp, meaning they get on ahead of the ones who ran fastest from the concourse.....), and of course it's a long way from the gate to coach A (because passengers will board the coach on which they're reserved).

I actually quite like Euston when it's not busy, but that's not very often.

 

[sk688]

Its worse for the LM services out of Euston though
Either the train is locked out of service until 2 minutes before departure on the platform , or sometimes the platform number is not shown 2 minutes before departure , always leading to a mad rush for the train by all the commuters

 

[swanhill41]

I wonder what the layout ,barriers etc will be like after they rebuild Blackpool North in the next 24 months in time for the leccy trains and the trams ?

 

[jon0844]

Its worse for the LM services out of Euston though
Either the train is locked out of service until 2 minutes before departure on the platform , or sometimes the platform number is not shown 2 minutes before departure , always leading to a mad rush for the train by all the commuters

How do people who can't run get trains? My mum walks with a stick and would presumably never make it, or is she to ask for assistance to get the heads up on where to go in advance?

 

[Ianno87]

Its worse for the LM services out of Euston though
Either the train is locked out of service until 2 minutes before departure on the platform , or sometimes the platform number is not shown 2 minutes before departure , always leading to a mad rush for the train by all the commuters

Apart from the regulars who go stand ready on the booked platform.

IMO, something the industry needs to get better at - for those who struggle to walk (but do not wish to book assistance) it's not a very good travel experience at all.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I wonder what the layout ,barriers etc will be like after they rebuild Blackpool North in the next 24 months in time for the leccy trains and the trams ?

The rebuild of Blackpool North is mostly about the platform lines and their approaches, essentially replacing the current partly curved 8 platforms with 6 straight ones. From what has already been posted (sorry, can't find link) the current alignment at the concourse end of the tracks will not change so no need to change anything significantly in the concourse area.

 

[geoffk]

"Whatever happens, nowhere is as awkward as Blackpool North!"

Todays Railways UK Issue 193 has an Editorial devoted to the unfriendly attitude of staff at Blackpool North towards enthusiasts. Station managers have suggested that ATOC guidelines for enthusiasts do not apply there.

Readers are asked to write in if they have had a similar experience.

There are several letters in the next two editions confirming the Editor's bad experience but, so far, no official response from Northern.

Have other Forum members had a similar experience and how do we get a response from the train operator?

 

[MK Tom]

When I was bashing all the Great Western HSTs last year, I got hassled about three times in a short space of time at Paddington while standing at platform ends (sometimes for a couple of hours) each evening, watching them come in so I could decide which one to catch. This was around the time when there had been a few terrorist attacks, but I don't know if that has any bearing. So I decided to start signing in, and never received any trouble after that. I saw a few members of staff walking up to me to give me hassle but I flashed my pass at them and they went on their way. I once forgot to hand my pass back in but I managed to check out online using Network Rail's online chat thing, and handed the physical pass in the following evening. You can sign in at the station reception on platform 1.

So my personal standards now are that if I'm intending on just getting a few photos then moving on, I won't bother. But if I'm going to be there for quite a while (eg over an hour), I'll find a member of staff to let them know I'm there.

It's difficult for those of us who travel and photograph at the same time. It's not always practical to sign in or find someone when you're arriving on a train and leaving on another, visiting dozens of stations in one day. Typically I just photo the train I'm on and one or two others, then I'm off out to see the town. At Blackpool North this worked fine for me. I got my train, the one next to it, and one or two others through the windows in the concourse. Then off out for trams, buses and seaside. The shot through the window came out quite nicely: https://mkttransportphoto.smugmug.com/2017/May-2017/Blackpool-via-Manchester-29-May-2017/i-CSBNJ2S

Interestingly at Slough yesterday I was with a friend who wanted to access the station for photos (we had come by bus) and the helpful gateline staff said we could either sign in on p5 or buy a platform ticket. We chose the latter for novelty value, and had to explain the whole thing to the booking office guy because he'd never been asked for one before. 10p well spent for some cracking class 800 shots though.

 

[Muzer]

It's difficult for those of us who travel and photograph at the same time. It's not always practical to sign in or find someone when you're arriving on a train and leaving on another, visiting dozens of stations in one day. Typically I just photo the train I'm on and one or two others, then I'm off out to see the town. At Blackpool North this worked fine for me. I got my train, the one next to it, and one or two others through the windows in the concourse. Then off out for trams, buses and seaside. The shot through the window came out quite nicely: https://mkttransportphoto.smugmug.com/2017/May-2017/Blackpool-via-Manchester-29-May-2017/i-CSBNJ2S

Interestingly at Slough yesterday I was with a friend who wanted to access the station for photos (we had come by bus) and the helpful gateline staff said we could either sign in on p5 or buy a platform ticket. We chose the latter for novelty value, and had to explain the whole thing to the booking office guy because he'd never been asked for one before. 10p well spent for some cracking class 800 shots though.

Of course, as I said in my post, "if I'm intending on just getting a few photos then moving on, I won't bother [to sign in].". You've got to be practical.

(Incidentally I think my post was moved in error, as it doesn't really have to do with Blackpool at all. I posted it in a different thread then the post above mine (actually about Blackpool) and mine were moved here.)

 

[yorkie]

I doubt Northern will do anything about the appalling attitude of some staff at Blackpool North. They've been at it for years.

Management are obviously aware of it, so I can only assume they find this behaviour to be acceptable, otherwise they would have done something.

Maybe if there is a lot of negative press, it may force the hand of the inadequate Northern Rail management, but I am not going to hold my breath...

It's difficult for those of us who travel and photograph at the same time. It's not always practical to sign in or find someone when you're arriving on a train and leaving on another, visiting dozens of stations in one day..

There is no 'requirement' for a rail passenger, who wishes to take photos while waiting for their train, to 'sign in'.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

On visiting Blackpool North last year for the first time, I had the worst experience I have ever encountered from a member of railway staff. Having alighted my incoming train I walked a few yards back to take pictures of the soon to be replaced semaphore signals. I could hear the frantic blowing of a whistle behind me and looking back I was assured to see that the station was not on fire and there were no imminent train movements, not that I was anywhere near a platform edge or indeed the end of the platform, as I wished to get all the signals in my shot using a cheap phone camera. On walking towards the buildings the first words shouted at me were "What do you think you are doing"? Being too shocked to think of replying "Actually I know what I am doing", a very animated confrontation followed which was totally unnecessary, and somewhat insulting to someone who after all pays a lot of money to travel on trains, some of which goes to pay for characters like him, who should never be employed in a public facing role. Had I been approached with a "Do you know you are not allowed....." or something similar the heat might have been taken out of the situation. A sad arrival that took the shine off an otherwise enjoyable visit. I was previously station staff for SWT and am pleased that we were trained to behave more appropriately, and of course a lot of behaviour is governed by your natural temperament and personality.

 

[Realfish]

I doubt Northern will do anything about the appalling attitude of some staff at Blackpool North. They've been at it for years...

...And years!

I lived in Blackpool and it was just the same in the late 60's early 70's. The staff there, in my experience, were routinely rude, unhelpful and objectionable. That wasn't the case at South though, but sadly, as BR (deliberately) retimed services that would miss connections at Preston, it increasingly had to be North.

Perhaps North is built on some mystical lay lines or the Feng Shui is all wrong... or perhaps it's just a bad culture that has built up over the years and has never been tackled.

 

[geoffk]

My reply from Northern received a couple of days ago via Facebook.

"Hi Geoff, we always strive to provide the best customer service for our customers. We always welcome feedback from our customers whether it regards a negative experience that highlights areas in need of improvement or just reassurance in aspects where we are doing well. As such, if you ever have any other feedback that you wish to share with us regarding the services that we provide at Blackpool North, then please do not hesitate to contact us when the station has re-opened".

So that's helpful, then. Maybe they would respond if given actual times and dates when these staff encounters have happened. Many photographers are also members of user groups or station friends groups and perhaps will decide not to bother when faced with this kind of attitude.

 

[Muzer]

There is no 'requirement' for a rail passenger, who wishes to take photos while waiting for their train, to 'sign in'.

There's no requirement, but there's a request. It's nice to be courteous when requests are not unreasonable. If you're spending a couple of hours at a station on platform ends, I think it's a reasonable request. If you're there for a few minutes taking a few quick snaps and doing otherwise "normal passenger" things, it's not a reasonable request.

Equally, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no 'requirement' for the railways to allow a rail passenger to take photos while waiting for their train.

 

[spongsdad]

It has to be pointed out the the degree of discourtesy and down right rudeness encountered by the passengers at stations such as Blackpool North does not come easily to staff. It requires a great deal of training and, in some cases, years of practice to hone one's skills. Most people find it easier to be well mannered and courteous to each other. Just imagine how difficult it must be to snarl, shout at and even ignore customers who need help. I feel quite sorry for them really. I imagine it is very stressful being a jobsworth.

 

[yorkie]

There's no requirement, but there's a request...

I'm not aware of anywhere that states rail customers are requested to sign in to take photos while changing trains during their journey.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I'm not aware of anywhere that states rail customers are requested to sign in to take photos while changing trains during their journey.

Nor am I. This situation upsets me. I do not like being confrontational but I have a mind to travel to Blackpool North when next home from the USA and take a photo. If I get asked what I am doing I may respond "spending money on train travel which pays your salary. Please do not be rude." Or similar words

 

[bramling]

It has to be pointed out the the degree of discourtesy and down right rudeness encountered by the passengers at stations such as Blackpool North does not come easily to staff. It requires a great deal of training and, in some cases, years of practice to hone one's skills. Most people find it easier to be well mannered and courteous to each other. Just imagine how difficult it must be to snarl, shout at and even ignore customers who need help. I feel quite sorry for them really. I imagine it is very stressful being a jobsworth.

The only tiny thing in their defence is that the place does seem to experience way more than it's fair share of problem passengers, which I suspect is nothing new. It seems the strategy for dealing with that is to run the place with a strict school-like regime. Surely a better solution would be to have a BTP presence to deal with trouble.

To be fair, in my experience the station staff are reasonably okay once the initial frostiness is broken down. Indeed I have twice asked for permission to spend time on the platforms which was granted with no problem. By contrast some of the cleaners seem far worse - openly shouting and swearing at passengers. Despite having been granted permission by the station manager to be on the platforms (with all the station staff being briefed accordingly!) we still got shouted at and sworn at by two separate cleaners.

 

[Muzer]

I'm not aware of anywhere that states rail customers are requested to sign in to take photos while changing trains during their journey.

I'm not sure if we agree but just aren't making ourselves clear, or if we do actually disagree here. To be very clear, if you're changing trains and you just want to hang around and take photos while you're doing so, I don't see any reason why you should need to sign in.

But if you're waiting around a station for a considerable period of time (I would say over an hour), standing in public areas but where there is nobody else around (including staff), such as on platform ends, then I would consider that you're there at least in part as a rail enthusiast. In this case, the enthusiast guidelines would apply (at large stations presumably the Network Rail ones which say largely the same thing). These aren't requirements or hard and fast rules, but I don't see what's wrong with following them where it seems reasonable to do so, in order to satisfy staff that you're there as an enthusiast and not as someone contemplating suicide or someone there for some untoward purpose, and that in the event of an evacuation, given they might not notice you in an out-of-the-way corner of the station, they know to look for you should something happen and you not make it out. I'm sure it puts staff at ease to know that the person standing ominously by the "no trespassing" sign isn't about to walk on the railway and get themselves hit by a train, but is just taking down unit numbers (or whatever).

I'm not saying that we should go out of our way to follow silly requests. Not at all. If a member of staff acts like a total arse towards me I'll likely wait until they're looking elsewhere and then carry on with whatever it was they objected to. But especially where I get politely requested to sign in when I'm there for long stretches of time, I'm inclined to follow that request, as I really don't feel it's that unreasonable.

 

[MK Tom]

Yeah I personally never spend hours at one station. I'd just get bored. The typical format of my trips is a bit of photoing at stations and on trains while I'm travelling, then out to explore towns, see landscapes, and get bus photos too usually. I'm also careful to avoid people wearing green hi-vis (orange is usually fine, but I feel I can't trust the green ones to know what they're doing) and obviously attention-attracting areas like right next to 'don't go past this point' signs. I act exactly as I would if I were a normal passenger, except I have a camera on me and occasionally get a tad excited if something unexpected shows up. So I don't tend to inform staff before doing any of that.

I can list all the places I've had altercations with staff at whilst taking photos on a weekly or more basis since 2008. Blackpool North not among them:

London Cannon Street (2010) (a cleaner, quickly resolved with station manager)
Milton Keynes Coachway (2013) (resolved with email to National Express)
Southend Victoria (2015) (whilst attempting to ask for permission to enter station for photos, only time I've done that, had to try six different staff members before one said yes. Angry email to Abellio, resolved)
Geneva (2016) (caused by security staff legitimately following erroneous guidance from the station terms of use on the wall. Resolved through email to SBB)

That's it (plus a time at Vauxhall where I intervened to help another photographer whilst not doing it myself). I can provide a much longer list of examples where staff have been helpful to me.

As others have said the issue at Blackpool stems from the design of the station. It's one of those seaside terminal stations where they control access to the platforms, and there's some sense to that there. Other examples are Great Yarmouth and Clacton-on-Sea. A lot of Irish Rail stations don't let you onto the platform until the train's there too. It's frustrating, but it's just the way things are. It's like not being able to get a photo due to weather or something. You just have to move on and try something else. The Blackpool line has a bunch of intermediate stations to photo at.

 

[47802]

Yeah I personally never spend hours at one station. I'd just get bored. The typical format of my trips is a bit of photoing at stations and on trains while I'm travelling, then out to explore towns, see landscapes, and get bus photos too usually. I'm also careful to avoid people wearing green hi-vis (orange is usually fine, but I feel I can't trust the green ones to know what they're doing) and obviously attention-attracting areas like right next to 'don't go past this point' signs. I act exactly as I would if I were a normal passenger, except I have a camera on me and occasionally get a tad excited if something unexpected shows up. So I don't tend to inform staff before doing any of that.

I can list all the places I've had altercations with staff at whilst taking photos on a weekly or more basis since 2008. Blackpool North not among them:

London Cannon Street (2010) (a cleaner, quickly resolved with station manager)
Milton Keynes Coachway (2013) (resolved with email to National Express)
Southend Victoria (2015) (whilst attempting to ask for permission to enter station for photos, only time I've done that, had to try six different staff members before one said yes. Angry email to Abellio, resolved)
Geneva (2016) (caused by security staff legitimately following erroneous guidance from the station terms of use on the wall. Resolved through email to SBB)

That's it (plus a time at Vauxhall where I intervened to help another photographer whilst not doing it myself). I can provide a much longer list of examples where staff have been helpful to me.

As others have said the issue at Blackpool stems from the design of the station. It's one of those seaside terminal stations where they control access to the platforms, and there's some sense to that there. Other examples are Great Yarmouth and Clacton-on-Sea. A lot of Irish Rail stations don't let you onto the platform until the train's there too. It's frustrating, but it's just the way things are. It's like not being able to get a photo due to weather or something. You just have to move on and try something else. The Blackpool line has a bunch of intermediate stations to photo at.

Mind I think Blackpool are unique in that they don't even seem to like any passenger standing on the platforms at all, even just standing about before your train is ready to depart.

 

[furnessvale]

As others have said the issue at Blackpool stems from the design of the station. It's one of those seaside terminal stations where they control access to the platforms, and there's some sense to that there. Other examples are Great Yarmouth and Clacton-on-Sea. A lot of Irish Rail stations don't let you onto the platform until the train's there too. It's frustrating, but it's just the way things are. It's like not being able to get a photo due to weather or something. You just have to move on and try something else. The Blackpool line has a bunch of intermediate stations to photo at.

No problem with controlling access but Blackpool has a habit of holding passengers back until the last minute then expecting passengers to run like cattle to board.

 

[8A Rail]

........................... As others have said the issue at Blackpool stems from the design of the station. It's one of those seaside terminal stations where they control access to the platforms, and there's some sense to that there. Other examples are Great Yarmouth and Clacton-on-Sea. A lot of Irish Rail stations don't let you onto the platform until the train's there too. It's frustrating, but it's just the way things are. It's like not being able to get a photo due to weather or something. You just have to move on and try something else. The Blackpool line has a bunch of intermediate stations to photo at.

I think you may of partly missed the point of photographing at Blackpool North Station which you could not get at other stations 1) the signals and signal box 2) Blackpool Tower. The former don't matter now has all swept away but the latter is still very relevant even when the station reopens. When it does, I think the same staff attitude will apply.

 

[185143]

Thinking back to the last time I was at Blackpool North-the rather small amount of passengers waiting for the train (21:40 Manchester Airport on a sunday night-albeit in June) were released onto the platform nearly TWENTY MINUTES before departure! The few staff I came across were actually friendly too...

Was rather odd! Especially given I'd just arrived on a 158 direct from Ribblehead...

 

[Mag_seven]

4) Allowed through said locked doors 1 minute before departure

Was there yesterday and despite the upgraded station platforms, new wires etc was not let on to the platform for the 13.38 departure until 13.37 despite the set being in the platform and ready. It was also a "front set" so everybody that had been held behind the door (and there were quite a few!) took quite a while to walk up the platform and board. I suspect that's why the train departed 3 late!

 

[Grumpy]

Was there yesterday and despite the upgraded station platforms, new wires etc was not let on to the platform for the 13.38 departure until 13.37 despite the set being in the platform and ready. It was also a "front set" so everybody that had been held behind the door (and there were quite a few!) took quite a while to walk up the platform and board. I suspect that's why the train departed 3 late!

Similar thing happened to me the other day only this time the arriving train was held for several minutes pending a departure, becoming late in the process, and then when we eventually pulled in to the station there were 2 vacant platforms but we were put on top of another 319. They've basically 6 platforms and they're only running 3 trains/hour plus the occasional Virgin. How difficult can it be? I realise this is a signal/control issue rather than platform staff issue but it all contributes to the customer perception