Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[bramling]

Upon arriving at Stevenage in the evening peak tonight I noticed two STM security guards on the platform. You only normally see security staff very late at night and then usually only in the booking hall.

I’ve noticed that this week. My Pullman service was cancelled this evening, although fortunately I was able to get an alternative service from St Pancras without too much trouble, albeit a boiling hot undesiro although on the plus side the train was virtually empty. Staff were really taking some stick, and the undesiro had the f word written alongside anywhere the Thameslink logo could be found.

Things are definitely not getting better, these last two days have been more of a shambles than any other. It’s like a slow lingering drowning, with a last gasp for air from a deluded and desperate Nick Brown. Where the senior management have let everyone down is their failure to recognise and/or highlight deficiencies in the FailedPlan2020. If us observers on here could see a mile off that it was going to be a shambles, so should highly experienced and paid senior management. As the ThamesLink/ ship finally sinks we might well see a mud-slinging contest as all the discredited chiefs try to save their own skin.

Incidentally, with 1R66 cancelled this evening, the Pullmans still being in Kings Cross as I write this, watch out for a cancellation or shortforming of one or more Baldock/Royston services tomorrow morning - unless they can find a way of getting the stock to Letchworth to make up the balance.

 

[Class465fan]

Here it is;

 

[MML]

More than likely Nick Brown is trying to do a salvage job on his career. He has been around a bit, but I don’t think he is quite ready to call it quits. The whole thing is a major black mark on anyone’s cv.

But surely these CEOs and COOs are the best in the business and we couldn't possibly do without them.
That's the excuse for paying them exorbitant salaries as it's the market rate and we need to pay these fees to obtain their services.
I hope there is a wholesale clear-out of these fat-cat bosses, their project management lackeys and the propaganda PR departments who manipulate the customers and media.

Since when has Network Rail been responsible for not recruiting or training enough drivers !

 

[bramling]

But surely these CEOs and COOs are the best in the business and we couldn't possibly do without them.
That's the excuse for paying them exorbitant salaries as it's the market rate and we need to pay these fees to obtain their services.
I hope there is a wholesale clear-out of these fat-cat bosses, their project management lackeys and the propaganda PR departments who manipulate the customers and media.

Since when has Network Rail been responsible for not recruiting or training enough drivers !

I don’t think anyone takes it seriously anyway. People can see through the DFT and ThameSink/ desperation.

I see even the defence team on here have gone very quiet too!

 

[infobleep]

The xx14 departures from Redhill have to leave fairly close to time or they will be obstructed by a Southern train in the platform at Reigate.

If GWR miss peak paths they run into congestion at Gatwick.

Having said that, they also have to be careful about blocking Tonbridge trains in the platform at Redhill if the Gatwick's turn short.

Actually if you need an illustration of how tight the Gatwick turnaround is, look at this with the 1528 Reading to Gatwick / 1700 Gatwick to Reading / 1832 Reading to Gatwick

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40411/2018/07/03/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40535/2018/07/03/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40421/2018/07/03/advanced

that led to the 2000 Gatwick to Reading start at Redhill.

Too many trains terminating at Gatwick at similar times in this timetable.

They were doing it before this timetable too.

I take it the 21:00 hours one has a greater turn around time and / or doesn't interact with the Reigate Southern service.

I didn't get into Guilldford station until towards 22:00 despite being at Gatwick Airport at 20:13. A car could do it in an hourvie even less. Obviously parking at Gatwick Airport would cost more.

Edit: If the Reigate terminators were late, would they stop them going to Reigate to ensure they didn't disruption the North Downs Lines trains?

 

[OwenB]

I feel your pain and I'm a driver based in London, I really feel sorry for you and its embarrassing to work on the railways currently.

No one blames the drivers, who are trying to do a job under near impossible conditions.

 

[Kanrakuq]

Plus some of them, such as the lesser spotted 0712 which keeps being teased as stopping on platform UFL, never does anyway, it just drives straight through on the fast. Yet it gets listed on the boards, and TL insist on Twitter it will stop.

(To be fair, right now it's not on the timetable, although I bet it'll have found its way back on by tomorrow morning)

As if by magic, there it is again! Just literally this second materialised on the departure boards, once again on "platform UFL". The question is, will it actually stop this time, or just drive past as usual?

 

[700007]

I feel your pain and I'm a driver based in London, I really feel sorry for you and its embarrassing to work on the railways currently.

It is not your fault in the slightest. I assume you turn up to work when you have a shift, if the train is there, you drive it. If the management cannot be bothered to train you accordingly to what duties you are driving or even the train you are driving, or force you to sit 55 minutes in a platform somewhere whilst your relief turns up, then do not worry at all. It still isn't your fault. You and your fellow drivers are brilliant people who still are trying their hardest to make this shambles less painful. Thank you very much for all the work you do.

 

[MrCub]

This is a real problem; when frustrated, passengers take it out on the wrong people. I saw someone absolutely blasting a driver on a TL station the other day. That poor driver just stood there and took it. When the passenger finally stopped, the driver said 'I appreciate everything you say, and think you are right. I'm really sorry.' and walked off quite calmly. I'd be surprised if many people would show sufficient resilience to not bite back in such a situation. Yelling and screaming at TL staff is not on.

 

[Kanrakuq]

As if by magic, there it is again! Just literally this second materialised on the departure boards, once again on "platform UFL". The question is, will it actually stop this time, or just drive past as usual?

It's been routed onto the fast after St Neots, so the answer I suspect will be nope. Still listed on the departure boards of course, and no doubt TL are assuring people on Twitter that it'll stop.

The 0704 to Horsham was cancelled so the platform is busy, no train there for an hour. They're about to see this one drive past. What a shambles.

(edit: Actually, went back on the slow to Sandy, so maybe it will stop. I'll just hold off spamming here and wait and see

... So, a completely unexpected train going to Kings Cross that wasn't even listed on the departure board arrived at 0706 instead)

 

[Downthelane]

Meltdown at HAT again and I assume WGC too. 725 HAT to KGX cancelled despite being shown as running on GN website twenty minutes ago. No 737 service, no 755 and so on. Down services also delayed or cancelled. Taxi....

 

[Failed Unit]

Meltdown at HAT again and I assume WGC too. 725 HAT to KGX cancelled despite being shown as running on GN website twenty minutes ago. No 737 service, no 755 and so on. Down services also delayed or cancelled. Taxi....

They stopped the 0624 Peterborough - London service additionally. Although I think most bailed to the Moorgate.

I don’t understand why so many of the first workings of the day get canned / delayed.

Take 0602 and 0632 WGC - London. Surely it is the drivers first job. Surely GTR can get a trained driver on the job the night before?

I have low expectations for July 15th considering what is on real times isn’t much different to what they are failing so dramatically to run in the peak now.

 

[OwenB]

They stopped the 0624 Peterborough - London service additionally. Although I think most bailed to the Moorgate.

I don’t understand why so many of the first workings of the day get canned / delayed.

Take 0602 and 0632 WGC - London. Surely it is the drivers first job. Surely GTR can get a trained driver on the job the night before?

I have low expectations for July 15th considering what is on real times isn’t much different to what they are failing so dramatically to run in the peak now.

That after the 5.52 was already removed.

 

[JonathanH]

They were doing it before this timetable too.

I take it the 21:00 hours one has a greater turn around time and / or doesn't interact with the Reigate Southern service.

I didn't get into Guilldford station until towards 22:00 despite being at Gatwick Airport at 20:13. A car could do it in an hourvie even less. Obviously parking at Gatwick Airport would cost more.

Edit: If the Reigate terminators were late, would they stop them going to Reigate to ensure they didn't disruption the North Downs Lines trains?

2039 London Victoria to Reigate held at Redhill for it
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W60893/2018/07/03/advanced

Southbound Thameslink train had to use platform 2 at Redhill
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W64490/2018/07/03/advanced

 

[Failed Unit]

That after the 5.52 was already removed.

Some of the announcers at Wgc were amazing this morning. Still manage some good humour even in adversity.

 

[Minstral25]

Too many trains terminating at Gatwick at similar times in this timetable.

The half-hourly Gatwick to Bedford service is a complete platform blocker at Gatwick, each train normally sitting in platform 2 for 25 minutes, meaning it is occupied for 50 minutes every hour. That's forced the Reading service to use 1 or 3 both of which are used for other through services so it needs to be in and out fast.

Suppose they could get them out to the carriage sidings but presumably no rest area for Drivers there.

No wonder GTR were very keen on Platform 3 at Reigate for the Bedford service. Get it parked out of the way.

 

[whoosh]

SDC at Kings Cross closed for good on 30th June, so the SDC at Three Bridges now controls everything. Pure coincidence that this week seems the worst yet?!

 

[philjo]

Incidentally, with 1R66 cancelled this evening, the Pullmans still being in Kings Cross as I write this, watch out for a cancellation or shortforming of one or more Baldock/Royston services tomorrow morning - unless they can find a way of getting the stock to Letchworth to make up the balance.

Your prediction was correct! Both the 0612 and 0712 services from Baldock were cancelled this morning.
The latter was showing on time at Letchworth but fortunately I boarded the 0704 12 coach service that has come from Kings Lynn as I couldn't see any sign of the 365s leaving the sidings at Letchworth towards Baldock.
The 0700 stopper at Letchworth (0628 from Cambridge) did not turn up either though this was also showing as on time.

 

[Hitchincommute]

At 0631 this morning the 0628 was showing as Cancelled at Cambridge but On Time at all other stations! At around 0650 it changed to Delayed at Hitchin and at 0700 the Hitchin platform announcer said it hadn’t left Cambridge sidings. Then we had the appearance of an 0707 Hitchin to KX service running on the cancelled 0711 time, which as other posters noted had the front 8 coaches stopping at WGC.

 

[Hitchincommute]

Public meeting at 1930 tonight at Sun Hotel in Hitchin with Govia represented. Passengers on platform this morning trying to drum up support to attend.

 

[jon0844]

No one blames the drivers, who are trying to do a job under near impossible conditions.

Looking on Facebook it seems a lot of people are. They're saying drivers are hungover from the football.

They aren't going to listen to anyone pointing out the drug and alcohol policy making that extremely unlikely! It fits their view, so they'll go with it.

Meanwhile staff are getting told that the passengers pay their wages and they should be sacked for their incompetence. Platform and gateline staff, neither of whom I believe are responsible for train planning, rostering or training!

 

[neilm]

Looking on Facebook it seems a lot of people are. They're saying drivers are hungover from the football.

They aren't going to listen to anyone pointing out the drug and alcohol policy making that extremely unlikely! It fits their view, so they'll go with it.

Meanwhile staff are getting told that the passengers pay their wages and they should be sacked for their incompetence. Platform and gateline staff, neither of whom I believe are responsible for train planning, rostering or training!

Where has GTR communicated publicly their drug and alcohol policy? Actually, where has GTR management communicated anything to their passengers about the problems? They still keep talking about the 'amended timetable' and 'new routes causing problems'.

This forum is ridiculous sometimes and still tries to blame the passengers for being the problem. The only reason passengers are taking it out on staff is because no one has told them what is going on.

 

[jon0844]

I have no idea if the drug and alcohol policy is public knowledge, any more than an airline pilot, bus driver, taxi driver or whatever.. But the fact is, the word spread fast that drivers weren't in because they'd watched the football and probably got p**sed. Therefore the problems today were seen by many as being down to the drivers.

I also have no idea how you take this to mean the passengers are being blamed for the problem?

With staff being assaulted and security guards being employed by the DfT to work up and down the line, I am sure someone will soon say they're only being assaulted because people don't know what's going on and are justified at venting their anger in physical form.

 

[theageofthetra]

Public meeting at 1930 tonight at Sun Hotel in Hitchin with Govia represented. Passengers on platform this morning trying to drum up support to attend.

Any civil servants from the DFT turning up?

 

[neilm]

I have no idea if the drug and alcohol policy is public knowledge, any more than an airline pilot, bus driver, taxi driver or whatever.. But the fact is, the word spread fast that drivers weren't in because they'd watched the football and probably got p**sed. Therefore the problems today were seen by many as being down to the drivers.

I also have no idea how you take this to mean the passengers are being blamed for the problem?

With staff being assaulted and security guards being employed by the DfT to work up and down the line, I am sure someone will soon say they're only being assaulted because people don't know what's going on and are justified at venting their anger in physical form.

It was just the way you said 'It fits their view, so they'll go with it.' - The way it comes across is that passengers are a problem (for me anyway). We are into week 3/4 now with no sign of improvements, no communication from GTR or the DfT. I think it is beyond repair and nothing will change views now unless they are replaced.

No one endorses violence, passengers only want this to be resolved as much as staff do.

 

[Aictos]

Ö

Any civil servants from the DFT turning up?

Very much doubt it, all there be if you're lucky is a GTR representive along with a local politician. There's as much chance of a civil servant turning up in my view as there is of Grayling admitting he was responsible and will step down after taking full responsibility for this cockup!

 

[transmanche]

I think it is beyond repair and nothing will change views now unless they are replaced.

I see a couple of similarities here with the Tyne & Wear Metro.

Firstly, last Thursday the Metro was suffering a 'shortage of drivers'. The same sunny evening that England were playing a World Cup football match. People saw the link and drew the 'obvious conclusion'.

Secondly, system performance was poor when it was operated by DB Regio and people clamoured to have them stripped of their concession. Metro is now directly operated by Nexus again and performance has continued to suffer. It now almost seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to problems to call for a franchise to be stripped from the operator - when in reality, it's likely that things would be exactly the same whoever operated the franchise. And that changing the franchise operator is not a cure-all.

 

[Tw99]

How many people actually get changed in a "change of operator" anyway. Presumably almost everyone gets TUPE'd into the new company, apart from a few executives. And the new incoming executives will cause a load of churn on the existing managers and staff as they learn the new company and what they're supposed to be doing. So it's hardly going to be a quick fix.

 

[Failed Unit]

How many people actually get changed in a "change of operator" anyway. Presumably almost everyone gets TUPE'd into the new company, apart from a few executives. And the new incoming executives will cause a load of churn on the existing managers and staff as they learn the new company and what they're supposed to be doing. So it's hardly going to be a quick fix.

I don’t think it will fix anything. But at the moment GTR are still making money out of this. Just things like making delay repay extremely difficult so most people don’t claim and they can trouser the payments they get.

Coupled with the contempt they have shown passengers and the blatant lies they continue to tell. At least stripping them will show they you can’t as an organisation be so detached from your customers.

Drivers will get trained, the timetable may work better irrespective. But GTR are a company that is making no visible effort to fix this, just throw mud at network rail and make lots of money as know they can’t be hit with poor performance payments. They have paid these.

 

[jon0844]

It was just the way you said 'It fits their view, so they'll go with it.' - The way it comes across is that passengers are a problem (for me anyway). We are into week 3/4 now with no sign of improvements, no communication from GTR or the DfT. I think it is beyond repair and nothing will change views now unless they are replaced.

No one endorses violence, passengers only want this to be resolved as much as staff do.

Still doesn't equal passengers being the problem. Just that they hear something incorrect by one angry passenger and then it spreads like wildfire. Happens with everything on social media. I have no doubt that anyone saying that drivers were hungover to rail staff were likely corrected, but I've heard many things explained to some people who just say 'that's BS' and continue to tell everyone that they 'know the truth'.

I don’t think it will fix anything. But at the moment GTR are still making money out of this. Just things like making delay repay extremely difficult so most people don’t claim and they can trouser the payments they get.

Coupled with the contempt they have shown passengers and the blatant lies they continue to tell. At least stripping them will show they you can’t as an organisation be so detached from your customers.

Drivers will get trained, the timetable may work better irrespective. But GTR are a company that is making no visible effort to fix this, just throw mud at network rail and make lots of money as know they can’t be hit with poor performance payments. They have paid these.

GTR is paying out Delay Repay based on the original timetable and is now offering season ticket holders 1 month free travel, with those travelling 3+ times a week also getting compensation (that's still to be finalised). I am not sure the process is made difficult and believe they're paying out for other things like taxis with little fuss, as I've mentioned before.

I know a lot of people simply don't bother to claim. Increasingly people are saying it's not worth it because their delay will only get them a few quid back. Well, yes, that might be the case for small delays but it's better than nothing. If people want to claim for more, there are processes for doing so. In addition, passengers can surely arrange travel insurance like any other journey if they aren't simply commuting?

When the new timetable starts, I assume you'll only be able to claim against that. But the whole idea is that these trains will actually run, unlike the mess today.