December 2018 timetable changes (some now confirmed scrapped) - contagion spreads

[Scotrail88]

Given the current timetable ongoing - it seems strange to post this but does anyone have knowledge of what is confirmed for the next timetable change?

 

[bionic]

Thameslink are supposed to extend the Sevenoaks - Blackfriars through the core to Welwyn GC. Seriously!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I think there is currently discussion ongoing between NR / DfT / others about what will be attempted for December, nationally. Keep an eye on the railway press over the next couple of months.

 

[Esker-pades]

Thameslink are supposed to extend the Sevenoaks - Blackfriars through the core to Welwyn GC. Seriously!

How will GN/TL maintain the service on the Moorgate branch? Finsbury-Moorgate shuttles?

 

[bionic]

How will GN/TL maintain the service on the Moorgate branch? Finsbury-Moorgate shuttles?

Peak hours and late night only. Remaining with Blackfriars bays off peak.

 

[Esker-pades]

Peak hours and late night only. Remaining with Blackfriars bays off peak.

Will GN still maintain the 5 minutes Moorgate to Finsbury Park peak service?

 

[bramling]

Will GN still maintain the 5 minutes Moorgate to Finsbury Park peak service?

The Moorgates won’t be affected - it’s the peak-only 2tph KX to Welwyn which are planned
to transfer to and from the core.

The change planned for December was the second Cambridge to Brighton. Looking less likely to happen how. It’s introduction appears to result in two other changes - the couple of peak Royston 365s will likely be cut back to Baldock, and the Moorgate to Stevenage service will be cut back to Watton-at-Stone.

 

[Esker-pades]

The Moorgates won’t be affected - it’s the peak-only 2tph KX to Welwyn which are planned
to transfer to and from the core.

The change planned for December was the second Cambridge to Brighton. Looking less likely to happen how. It’s introduction appears to result in two other changes - the couple of peak Royston 365s will likely be cut back to Baldock, and the Moorgate to Stevenage service will be cut back to Watton-at-Stone.

Ah brilliant. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[87015]

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/media-centre/press-releases/2018/469774201-2018-07-09.html

The rail industry has reviewed its plans for the winter timetable following disruption in parts of the country after the May timetable change and will make fewer changes to ensure people get a more reliable service.

Every year, the national timetable is routinely changed twice – for the summer (in May) and for the winter (in December) to allow services to adapt for seasonal variations and to enable new services to be introduced as a result of investment in the infrastructure and in new trains.

The timetable change in May 2018 was the largest in recent railway history. As a result of today’s announcement, the December 2018 timetable change will be of a similar scale to the smaller changes of recent years....

 

[swt_passenger]

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/media-centre/press-releases/2018/469774201-2018-07-09.html

Interesting find. With SWR not changing in December that presumably takes the pressure off a whole load of rolling stock issues as well...

 

[Alfie1014]

Also seems to push back the first round of GA changes to December 2019 which were contracted to be delivered in May next year. The release makes reference to GA changes in Dec this year but they can’t be much I imagine as there’s no much chance of much being brought forward in the current climate?

 

[pemma]

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/media-centre/press-releases/2018/469774201-2018-07-09.html

Am I the only one who thinks what it says about Northern and TPE is unclear. Are they supposed to be implementing other changes which they were scheduled to make in May but didn't or postponing everything?

 

[Kite159]

Am I the only one who thinks what it says about Northern and TPE is unclear. Are they supposed to be implementing other changes which they were scheduled to make in May but didn't or postponing everything?

That table suggests that any planned changes to December have been postponed, maybe some minor changes when the wiring via Bolton is finally finished (running EMUs instead of DMUs but running on DMU timings).

 

[Bessie]

So for SWR is part of the problem platforms 20-24 at Waterloo won’t be ready on time? It still looks like a lot of work to do.

 

[infobleep]

Just received a South Western Railway e-mail.

In it they say they are disappointed that they can't introduce these changes.

No mention of when they will.be introduced so perhaps that is up for discussion. Maybe it depends on how soon they can get a national period of stability.

Any one care to suggest how long a period of stability is needed before they can introduce another timetable change? This one isn't even major.

They do say they intend to progressively bring in the 442 and free up rolling stock elsewhere.

I wonder if they might be able to introduce a 7.28 or 8.28 Guildford to Waterloo via Bookham service and a 17.09 and 17.39 Waterloo to Guildford via Bookham service. Currently these terminate or start at Effingham Junction

Selfishly, myself and some others will be glad it has been delayed, so that the gap for services to and from Clapham Junction is not extended.

 

[The Planner]

Stability more than likely means getting STP back on track to T-12.

 

[Muzer]

Selfishly, myself and some others will be glad it has been delayed, so that the gap for services to and from Clapham Junction is not extended.

And I'll be cursing you for another six months while I wait in the peaks for a backlog of delayed trains with ridiculous dwell times while calling at Clapham Junction to clear

 

[tbtc]

Am I the only one who thinks what it says about Northern and TPE is unclear. Are they supposed to be implementing other changes which they were scheduled to make in May but didn't or postponing everything?

The Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ms-forced-to-abandon-winter-timetable-changes) states the following

Northern, which has achieved a more stable service after cutting 6% of its timetable, also expects to be running the May timetable in full later this year

(though I appreciate that this wasn't online when you raised the question)

So we've gone from people demanding a short notice timetable change to the Government saying "no change for twelve months"? I suppose that's one way of giving the industry some breathing space, whilst the cascade of stock around Britain takes place (along with some delayed electrification).

 

[infobleep]

And I'll be cursing you for another six months while I wait in the peaks for a backlog of delayed trains with ridiculous dwell times while calling at Clapham Junction to clear

Well I suspect backlog of trains will just start later so from around 19:26, when I believe the first fast train to stop at Clapham Junction was due to call in the new timetable.

The issue is caused by it being the first train to call and thus a greater number of passengers wishing to use it.

 

[pemma]

The Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ms-forced-to-abandon-winter-timetable-changes) states the following

(though I appreciate that this wasn't online when you raised the question)

Personally I think that's a bit ambiguous. At the start of this year Northern submitted a track access application for their planned changes, some of those were dropped from the May timetable which went ahead. Then after the May timetable change some services were temporarily dropped and are being reinstated this month. So is the full May timetable the full printed timetable or the full timetable in the track access application (which most passengers won't have seen)?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A new hourly Liverpool-Runcorn-Chester service is supposed to start in December 2018 (operated by Wales & Borders).
I wouldn't have thought it would be the straw to break the camel's back (assuming the Lime St upgrade completes to plan).

 

[pemma]

A new hourly Liverpool-Runcorn-Chester service is supposed to start in December 2018 (operated by Wales & Borders).
I wouldn't have thought it would be the straw to break the camel's back (assuming the Lime St upgrade completes to plan).

W&B are to implement a new timetable. Interestingly WMT are not but LNWR are.

 

[Muzer]

Well I suspect backlog of trains will just start later so from around 19:26, when I believe the first fast train to stop at Clapham Junction was due to call in the new timetable.

The issue is caused by it being the first train to call and thus a greater number of passengers wishing to use it.

Another issue is the completely unsuitable nature of the stock on many of the services chosen to stop at Clapham Junction for such a call. Obviously 159s are great and well-suited to most of the route, but given the narrow doors and vestibules and slow boarding/alighting times, coupled with the problem that the front door cannot be used, who in their right minds thinks it's a good idea to stop the 18:20 ex Waterloo at Clapham Junction? It's also a service I find that tends to be among the more overcrowded of services heading in the Basingstoke direction. Madness! Peak-time Clapham calls should be limited to 450s. Those for the West of England can change at Woking or (preferably) Basingstoke.

 

[Chester1]

Personally I think that's a bit ambiguous. At the start of this year Northern submitted a track access application for their planned changes, some of those were dropped from the May timetable which went ahead. Then after the May timetable change some services were temporarily dropped and are being reinstated this month. So is the full May timetable the full printed timetable or the full timetable in the track access application (which most passengers won't have seen)?

Northern will have to make some changes to remove some of the flaws in the current timetable and account for changes in rolling stock. For instance making the diagrams running between Manchester and Preston via Bolton are only on lines that are or will be electrified so that they can swap 142s and 150s for 319s when the electric is switched on. I am sure they don't mean no change whatsoever.

 

[dk1]

We shouldn't let a blip like this put us off major changes in the future. Heaven knows we are cautious enough on anything railway these days in this country. Onwards & upwards.

 

[Kite159]

And I was looking forward to gaining an hourly service from my local station on Sundays

Ah well, looks like I will still be driving to Andover to avoid the risk of just missing the 17:15/19:15 services at Waterloo and forcing a 2 hour wait

 

[matt]

W&B are to implement a new timetable. Interestingly WMT are not but LNWR are.

The link posted by 87015 only says West Midlands Trains are not which I take to include LNWR as they are not mentioned.

 

[tgrb]

So if I read this correctly GWR won’t be making the changes to make full use of the 800’s - that’s a shame - that last few trips I’ve had on them we’ve spent a lot of time idling at platforms as were 3-4 minutes (or more) early!

 

[Dr Strider]

The link posted by 87015 only says West Midlands Trains are not which I take to include LNWR as they are not mentioned.

"West Midlands Trains" is the official name of the franchisee which operates both WMR and LNWR services, so no Dec 2018 changes on either.

Dr Strider

 

[pemma]

The link posted by 87015 only says West Midlands Trains are not which I take to include LNWR as they are not mentioned.

I misread LNER as LNWR.