Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[Failed Unit]

Will people lose bonuses over this?

I doubt it. I suspect as others have predicted GTR will be stripped of the franchise once things start to improve so DFT can claim the credit.

Things were much worse on Southern 2 years ago. Passengers protested at Brighton, Victoria etc. Nothing happened.

It is sad you feel thankful that if you get 1 train on time per week that is a victory.

 

[Aictos]

I've had a letter from Nick Brown today, along with an 'info sheet' reiterating the idea that it's all Network Rail's fault. I accept NWR are to blame for some of this mess, but training the drivers was down to GTR and they just... didn't. Unfortunately some staff are believing this propaganda.

Sadly some people are just too gullible and believe anything regardless of what their more experienced colleagues are trying to tell them.

End of the day GTR is not blameless and trying to deflect blame elsewhere when you're at fault yourself is not how you ought to run a business, heads should roll at both GTR and DfT but won't.

 

[Fred26]

I've heard from a senior manager tonight that drivers have been offered £2k to work a shift on Sunday. Reasons being, it's the World Cup Final, and probably more to the point, it's to make sure all stock is in place for Monday morning.
Not sure I completely believe it, but there you go. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[farleigh]

I've heard from a senior manager tonight that drivers have been offered £2k to work a shift on Sunday. Reasons being, it's the World Cup Final, and probably more to the point, it's to make sure all stock is in place for Monday morning.
Not sure I completely believe it, but there you go. Take it for what it's worth.

Wouldn't surprise me but it can not be true.

Don't blame anyone for taking it if it were true.

 

[westcoaster]

I've heard from a senior manager tonight that drivers have been offered £2k to work a shift on Sunday. Reasons being, it's the World Cup Final, and probably more to the point, it's to make sure all stock is in place for Monday morning.
Not sure I completely believe it, but there you go. Take it for what it's worth.

I also heard they will pay your mortgage of, supplyyou with a company branded car, and 2 free holidays a year for the next two years.
Then i woke up and had bowl of cornflakes.

 

[farleigh]

I also heard they will pay your mortgage of, supplyyou with a company branded car, and 2 free holidays a year for the next two years.
Then i woke up and had bowl of cornflakes.

So it is untrue then.

 

[Domh245]

with a company branded car

That would be a terrible deal surely? Who on earth would want to advertise that they work for GTR!

 

[westcoaster]

So it is untrue then.

100%, im not sure if GTR pay fines for sunday cancellations. Fcc it was excludable under the franchise terms.

 

[westcoaster]

That would be a terrible deal surely? Who on earth would want to advertise that they work for GTR!

Alot of people like are proud of their work, but a branded car

 

[farleigh]

100%, im not sure if GTR pay fines for sunday cancellations. Fcc it was excludable under the franchise terms.

Ta

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The problems CAN be sorted out fairly quickly it is just that they don't want to spend money to do so - as in they couldn't give a flying ****e about the passengers or service which they just see as cash cows and want to trouser as much as they can from the whole debacle. If ever we needed a good reason to re-nationalise this current disgrace of a botched implementation of change and the subsequent farce of mismanaging it is surely it.

 

[BRX]

The problems CAN be sorted out fairly quickly.

How exactly?

 

[CeeJ]

100%, im not sure if GTR pay fines for sunday cancellations. Fcc it was excludable under the franchise terms.

What incentive is/was there to run Sunday services well? Are/were there general performance-based fines that include Sunday statistics?

 

[Failed Unit]

Any organisation that relies on overtime to deliver the basic service level will always end in tears. I am surprised that Nick Brown doesn’t know this from his time a Central Trains. (Which was also a poorly managed company)

Does anyone know now they have scaled back the December deliverables is May’s Welwyn GC - Sevenoaks will also be pushed back / delayed?

 

[Failed Unit]

How exactly?

Spend some Money. Get all the 365s back out of storage and use them on the London - Cambridge service. It is needlessly suffering from lots of cancellations because the drivers are not trained on the 700s. Focus the 700s on the peak. If you have 365s on short platform stations run through fast. Can’t be worse than the service they are receiving. Look how quickly ScotRail sorted 365 operations out. That is a company that had no experience of them. GTR could have immediate benefit but prefer to run a shockingly bad service.

 

[AM9]

Spend some Money. Get all the 365s back out of storage and use them on the London - Cambridge service. It is needlessly suffering from lots of cancellations because the drivers are not trained on the 700s. Focus the 700s on the peak. If you have 365s on short platform stations run through fast. Can’t be worse than the service they are receiving. Look how quickly ScotRail sorted 365 operations out. That is a company that had no experience of them. GTR could have immediate benefit but prefer to run a shockingly bad service.

Even if it was a sensible thing to do, I doubt that there's room to accommodate them. All 115 class700s are now in service so there isn't anywhere to park more trains. When the class 717s are delivered, it will be necessary to remove the class313s as soon as they can be replaced by the new trains.

 

[Failed Unit]

Even if it was a sensible thing to do, I doubt that there's room to accommodate them. All 115 class700s are now in service so there isn't anywhere to park more trains. When the class 717s are delivered, it will be necessary to remove the class313s as soon as they can be replaced by the new trains.

I guess they could store the 700s at Ely and almost do a straight swap. They are not exactly useful at Hornsey / Ferme Park right now. At the moment the do nothing but blame network rail isn’t the solution. The 717s will be interesting if the baglog if driver training is as bad as suggested.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I guess they could store the 700s at Ely and almost do a straight swap. They are not exactly useful at Hornsey / Ferme Park right now. At the moment the do nothing but blame network rail isn’t the solution. The 717s will be interesting if the baglog if driver training is as bad as suggested.

Is it known how many GN drivers are qualified to drive 700s vs 365s?

Route learning knowledge itself will play a part - what crews have which knowledge?

And how on earth will it be justified having new units on lease being replaced by stock from the 90s to the DfT, even if it is superior?

 

[Failed Unit]

Is it known how many GN drivers are qualified to drive 700s vs 365s?

Route learning knowledge itself will play a part - what crews have which knowledge?

Strangely enough as it is a GTR owned element they are keep quiet about that one. They also refuse to say when the remaining drivers will be trained. I would expect 100% to be 365 trained.

But considering that the Cambridge / WGC - London is actually one of the poorest performers and uses no new infrastructure I suspect it is low. Considering the delayed the introduction of the 700s on GN by 6 weeks (some diagrams started Feb and others March) suggests they were 6 weeks at least behind on driver training. Reading drivers comments this backlog increased once the timetable collapsed.

As for how will it be justified? Easy do you want the train to run or not? GTR can’t operate the specified service with 700s as they chose not to train the drivers. Using 365s will provide more trains. Passengers just want trains to run now - don’t think the care with what. Scotrail passengers are happy with older trains because they get a seat. I am sure GN passengers will be happy with old trains running over new trains multiple cancellations we currently have.

 

[Ianno87]

I guess they could store the 700s at Ely and almost do a straight swap. They are not exactly useful at Hornsey / Ferme Park right now. At the moment the do nothing but blame network rail isn’t the solution. The 717s will be interesting if the baglog if driver training is as bad as suggested.

I would hazard a guess (and it is only a guess) that the 700 maintenance contract may not permit them to be stored at a third party location like Ely and effectively temporarily mothball them (Potters is not wired)

 

[Old School]

I guess they could store the 700s at Ely and almost do a straight swap. They are not exactly useful at Hornsey / Ferme Park right now. At the moment the do nothing but blame network rail isn’t the solution. The 717s will be interesting if the baglog if driver training is as bad as suggested.

I understand that the 1st Class 717 was delivered yesterday from Dollands Moor to Ferme Park

 

[samuelmorris]

Looking at gaps in the new timetable, clearly it's still far from perfect, as is to be expected with the staffing issue not yet resolved. Would you still be able to claim DR against the original May timetable once this one is implemented if the service you would normally intend to use is still missing (or was removed in the latest timetable change)?

 

[jellybaby]

Don't forget there is the additional compensation that GTR announced on the 4th, with full details to be available "within a week".

 

[Failed Unit]

Looking at gaps in the new timetable, clearly it's still far from perfect, as is to be expected with the staffing issue not yet resolved. Would you still be able to claim DR against the original May timetable once this one is implemented if the service you would normally intend to use is still missing (or was removed in the latest timetable change)?

I am going to. The train I prefer to use is still withdrawn. Used to be the busiest train of the peak from WGC.

 

[OwenB]

I am going to. The train I prefer to use is still withdrawn. Used to be the busiest train of the peak from WGC.

As baffling as removing the 17.51 KGX-CBG service. Prime train for 17.30 finishers.

 

[AM9]

As baffling as removing the 17.51 KGX-CBG service. Prime train for 17.30 finishers.

Hasn't it been explained by somebody here recently that dealing with a driver shortage requires removing diagrams which might mean odd gaps between trains and peoples' favourite trains not being available?

 

[WeGoAgain]

...Get all the 365s back out of storage...

There are no 365's stored at Ely any more.

Putting two and two together, it appears there are more 365's in Passenger service now. So unless those at Ely have been stored somewhere else, your suggestion has already come to fruition, (as some on here forecast would happen).

 

[OwenB]

Hasn't it been explained by somebody here recently that dealing with a driver shortage requires removing diagrams which might mean odd gaps between trains and peoples' favourite trains not being available?

I hadn't seen the explanation on here, but thank you, I think I understand what you mean.

 

[jon0844]

Even if it was a sensible thing to do, I doubt that there's room to accommodate them. All 115 class700s are now in service so there isn't anywhere to park more trains. When the class 717s are delivered, it will be necessary to remove the class313s as soon as they can be replaced by the new trains.

Stabling trains is now a very big issue. Many locations are full, and as a result of the current situation despite quite a few 717s being ready to ship over, GTR are apparently keeping them all in Germany for the forseeable future (bar of course those already here for training purposes).

(Also I did see two 365s covered in graffiti heading down towards London earlier this week, so they may be ones that were parked up by Ely. No idea what is going to happen with them in terms of service.)

 

[notverydeep]

Another 'UFL' moment, this morning at Welwyn Garden City. If those last three words make you go 'oh not again', I would skip the rest of the post! My 'favourite' train is 2C13 0727 Cambridge - King's Cross. This has mostly been cancelled since the start of the May 2018 service, but thankfully is included in the July 15th timetable. After a couple of weeks with few appearances, it had run Monday to Wednesday this week. It has had random slightly different timings on Live Departures - some days it is 0822 as shown in the timetable, other days it is 0821 or 0824 for no apparent reason. But our luck ran out at WGC today and despite it showing on Live Departures as running (at 0824) earlier, it ended up cancelled. Instead, Live Departures and the station passenger information screens promised 1P11 at 0827 as an additional stop at platform 2 (this is the 0735 Peterborough - King's Cross). It was showing as few minutes late though, so if this didn't stop, we would have to leg it back across the footbridge to platform 4 for 2Y17 0832 WGC - King's Cross...

In the end 1P11 was held up by some other services across Digswell Viaduct. Eventually, it came into view and it was apparent that it was going to pass at speed on the up fast line. I was the first to run up the stairs, but only to see 2Y17 start to move bang on 0832. This was despite one of the revenue staff asking for it to be held and telling customers that it would be held one minute to 0833! Thus circa 100 people were left behind.

Presumably, the stop order was cancelled before 1P11 left Stevenage or else the 100+ commuters to WGC must have ended up at King's Cross? The absence of a passenger emergency alarm stop at Brookmans Park (the next platform on the fast line) suggests WGC bound passengers were not on 1P11. That would have allowed a 10 minute window for staff at Stevenage to call their colleagues and prevent them being made to look completely stupid (and possibly the subject of abuse). I can understand that getting information from service control is hard, but surely station staff at least should help each other out? And really, just don't promise to hold trains that you can't hold or aren't going to be held...

So we had to wait for the 0852 (2C15 0750 Cambridge North - King's Cross). This was already full and standing because of the cancellation of 1R11, the 0812 Baldock - King's Cross, which is not a normal cancellation and is worked by 365s. 2C15 is a really boring train, with 13 minutes between its booked arrival at Finsbury Park and its time into King's Cross, presumably as it is timed as if going to Maidstone and there isn't a platform available until seven or so minutes after it would naturally want to arrive. Despite being scheduled it is clear that many passengers perceive this extra time as a delay.