Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Mitch in Notts]

In the same way anyone wanting to travel to Trent Barton destinations changing bus at Nottingham and Mansfield also have to purchase two tickets or travel a very long way around using Trent Barton’s 141!.

Trents 3B Nottingham to Mansfield in 73minutes is marginally quicker, and more frequent, than the 141 in 82minutes. But yes I totally agree. I occasionally pay Chesterfield to Mansfield on Pronto when travelling on Mango & you can guarantee its nearly always a Trent bus on the Prontos I catch!

 

[ashworth]

Trents 3B Nottingham to Mansfield in 73minutes is marginally quicker, and more frequent, than the 141 in 82minutes. But yes I totally agree. I occasionally pay Chesterfield to Mansfield on Pronto when travelling on Mango & you can guarantee its nearly always a Trent bus on the Prontos I catch!

Totally agree, I would use the 3B if wanting to use Mango or Zigzag from Mansfield to Nottingham. I had just used the example of expensive, more than one bus journeys, from Newstead Abbey Gates as that’s one of the nearest stops on the Pronto route to where I live. I actually live on the 141 route so have to pay again if I change to the Pronto at Newstead Abbey Gates for a quicker journey or to travel to Chesterfield.

 

[WillPS]

I get the impression Stagecoach and Trent Barton are not on good terms, so they're bound by the clause of whatever agreement they have already and neither side want to change it.

 

[SCH117X]

Even if they are not on good terms not identifying the services you operate (or do not operate) on your own timetable is barking

 

[Mugby]

TrentBarton didn't do themselves any favours when they drove the Stagecoach Sunday service on The Nines off the road.

Stagecoach don't like things such as that - even though they're not averse to such actions themselves!

 

[43055]

Interesting move from trent. https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/megariderchanges

You will be able to pay and reload megarider smart cards on Trent buses on the pronto as well from tomorrow.

 

[Statto]

The Pronto & the X38 are cases were the County Councils should get involved with the operators & introduce quality bus partnership, so full range of tickets are valid on the other operator, we have such QBP schemes on Merseyside.

 

[ashworth]

The Pronto & the X38 are cases were the County Councils should get involved with the operators & introduce quality bus partnership, so full range of tickets are valid on the other operator, we have such QBP schemes on Merseyside.

But it isn’t just about them accepting the full range of tickets valid on the other operator!
As many people have pointed out in this thread over the years, they won’t even accept their own day tickets on their own buses. Stagecoach will not accept their own Day Explorers on Pronto and Trent Barton will not accept their own Zigzag or Mango fares on Pronto.

 

[MCR247]

[QUOTE[]New buses are on there way this summer/autumn for indigo and i4. Some of the buses for indigo are just about ready, so should be delivered first:
17 E200 MMC 11.5M 4 Cylinder 15 for indigo plus 2 spare (mango).
13 E200 MMC 11.8 6 Cylinder for I4.
[/QUOTE]

Taken from The Derby Bus Depot. Indigo getting short E200s surprises me

 

[Cesarcollie]

[QUOTE[]New buses are on there way this summer/autumn for indigo and i4. Some of the buses for indigo are just about ready, so should be delivered first:
17 E200 MMC 11.5M 4 Cylinder 15 for indigo plus 2 spare (mango).
13 E200 MMC 11.8 6 Cylinder for I4.

Taken from The Derby Bus Depot. Indigo getting short E200s surprises me[/QUOTE]


I wouldn't exactly call 11.5m 'short'. Pre MMC the longest E200 was 10.8m with 39 seats (albeit less if more legroom etc). It's only 0.5m shorter than a 'traditional' 12m Scania or Volvo heavyweight....!!

 

[goldisgood]

[QUOTE[]New buses are on there way this summer/autumn for indigo and i4. Some of the buses for indigo are just about ready, so should be delivered first:
17 E200 MMC 11.5M 4 Cylinder 15 for indigo plus 2 spare (mango).
13 E200 MMC 11.8 6 Cylinder for I4.

Taken from The Derby Bus Depot. Indigo getting short E200s surprises me[/QUOTE]
They don't have any less seats, just 4 cylinder instead of 6 cylinder.

 

[MCR247]

Oh I see, I was in a bit of a rush so didn't study it fully!

 

[chessie]

I caught the Pronto today from Nottingham - Chesterfield for a single fare of £6.10 and I paid that to try one of the new buses. Didn't need a return as I travelled on The Comet from Chesterfield - Derby, then Red Arrow to Nottingham on the Mango which is more or less as quick and cheaper off peak than the Pronto if I did the return this way.

The bus driver on the Pronto from Nottingham told me several times that the returns a cracking value at £6.80 before accepting my single fare. I nearly stated that's the price of a Stagecoach Day Explorer so can I have one of those but refrained...didn't dare ask about the mango

The bus driver was brilliant trying to give me best value for money, but as per other posts its daft the full range of fares aren't available on Pronto and the suits above should be sorting this.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I caught the Pronto today from Nottingham - Chesterfield for a single fare of £6.10 and I paid that to try one of the new buses. Didn't need a return as I travelled on The Comet from Chesterfield - Derby, then Red Arrow to Nottingham on the Mango which is more or less as quick and cheaper off peak than the Pronto if I did the return this way.

The bus driver on the Pronto from Nottingham told me several times that the returns a cracking value at £6.80 before accepting my single fare. I nearly stated that's the price of a Stagecoach Day Explorer so can I have one of those but refrained...didn't dare ask about the mango

The bus driver was brilliant trying to give me best value for money, but as per other posts its daft the full range of fares aren't available on Pronto and the suits above should be sorting this.

The suits aren’t allowed to collude! It can be done by a third party though like a council!

 

[SCH117X]

The suits aren’t allowed to collude! It can be done by a third party though like a council!

Transdev and Reliance are accepting each others tickets between York and Easingwold on commercially operated services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Transdev and Reliance are accepting each others tickets between York and Easingwold on commercially operated services.

Accepting each other’s tickets can be done but collusion can attract the CMA’s attention.

First and Abus have coordinated services and inter availability from Bristol to Keynsham and Nailsea where competition used to exist. These arrangements were brokered by BathNES and North Somerset councils respectively.

 

[Deerfold]

The suits aren’t allowed to collude! It can be done by a third party though like a council!

Not sure how accepting all their own tickets would be colluding.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

From Stagecoach Website:
"Newark Area Service Changes From Sunday 22 July 2018

Service 46 will be withdrawn between Newark and Lincoln.

Service 16 will start from Bassingham at 0640 and will run via Witham St Hughs and Thorpe on the Hill. (To Lincoln)

For further details, contact Lincolnshire County Council on 01522 550129."

That just leaves the Newark Town Services 1-2-3 & routes 28-29 in Stagecoach hands in Newark. And Just PC 47 3 times a day linking Newark & Lincoln.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not sure how accepting all their own tickets would be colluding.

Because it could be construed as talking to have a common approach in order to keep any new entrant out and so anti competitive.

Something discussed at length in the past!

 

[Deerfold]

Because it could be construed as talking to have a common approach in order to keep any new entrant out and so anti competitive.

Something discussed at length in the past!

Taking their own tickets on their own services? How does that do any of that?

I'm not talking about them taking each others tickets - though they do accept returns,
and megariders but not mango or zigzag.

How is taking megariders on both not anti-competitive, but taking mango or zigzag on just the Trentbarton ones would be?

 

[ashworth]

How is taking megariders on both not anti-competitive, but taking mango or zigzag on just the Trentbarton ones would be?

Taking Zigzag or Mango on Trent Barton buses would be sensible as would be taking Day Explorer tickets on Stagecoach buses.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Taking Zigzag or Mango on Trent Barton buses would be sensible as would be taking Day Explorer tickets on Stagecoach buses.

Pronto is predominantly a stagecoach route. If zig zags and mango could be used passengers may wait for the trent bus and so stagecoach would lose out. I expect that is why they cannot be used. Not good for the customer, but must be an agreement that has been made so that each can keep their portion of cake.

The x38 situation is a bit different as trent and arriva operate half the journies each. It seems illogical that they cannot accept each others day tickets. They effectively operate competing services to irregular times. They dont even run alternate journies.

 

[ACBest]

From Stagecoach Website:
"Newark Area Service Changes From Sunday 22 July 2018

Service 46 will be withdrawn between Newark and Lincoln.

Service 16 will start from Bassingham at 0640 and will run via Witham St Hughs and Thorpe on the Hill. (To Lincoln)

For further details, contact Lincolnshire County Council on 01522 550129."

That just leaves the Newark Town Services 1-2-3 & routes 28-29 in Stagecoach hands in Newark. And Just PC 47 3 times a day linking Newark & Lincoln.

Stagecoach Newark have a few school routes too, namely the C and E to Welbourn Sir William Robertson School, and the afternoon journey on the 964 from Southwell Minster School to Farnsfield. The 2 also incorporates a school journey for Newark Academy.

I assume they really help to prop things up at Newark.

The extension of a 16 to Bassingham is a bit intriguing. The 46 was also used as a way to swap buses between Lincoln and the Newark outstation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Taking their own tickets on their own services? How does that do any of that?

I'm not talking about them taking each others tickets - though they do accept returns,
and megariders but not mango or zigzag.

How is taking megariders on both not anti-competitive, but taking mango or zigzag on just the Trentbarton ones would be?

Apologies - I’d interpreted it as being about TB/Stagecoach interavailability; sorry for the confusion!

 

[kevjs]

Skylink Express is no more

The route is being rebranded as Skylink and will feature stylish grey and blue low-floor buses with all mod cons, including USB charging at every seat, free superfast 4G WiFi and visual and audio next-stop announcements.

A bit less Expressey because

The new route will run through the heart of Clifton along Southchurch Drive and call at the NET tram park and ride site, helping local people more easily access the increasing number of jobs at and around the airport.

https://westbridgfordwire.com/more-skylink-express-stops-for-improved-airport-access-launched-today/

 

[ashworth]

Skylink Express is no more

A bit less Expressey because

https://westbridgfordwire.com/more-skylink-express-stops-for-improved-airport-access-launched-today/

If journey times between Nottingham City Centre and East Midlands Airport are suddenly now not quite so important, would a stop at East Midlands Parkway now be useful?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

If it is now back calling at Clifton NET P & R why does it need to go down Southchurch Drive when Clifton residents could make a Tram transfer at the P & R. It is no longer an express link to the airport but now provides Clifton residents with a direct bus alternative to Trent Bridge (quicker than NCTs 3) and the City Centre.

Derbyshire have changes to Trents 15, Black Cat, i4, Red Arrow, Spondon Flyer, V1 & V3 from 2nd September.
Revisions to Stagecoach Chesterfield services from the same date also.

 

[Robertj21a]

Skylink Express is no more



A bit less Expressey because

https://westbridgfordwire.com/more-skylink-express-stops-for-improved-airport-access-launched-today/

It's now called Skylink Clifton.

 

[edwin_m]

The Skylink Clifton changes do look a bit odd. As mentioned the route through Clifton just slows the journey to places that could be reached by a tram connection or in many cases a short walk to a stop on the A453. If the purpose is to link Clifton residents with jobs around the airport then why not do the same for Meadows, as the original NCT Skylink did but the Clifton one passes non-stop?

 

[kevjs]

If it is now back calling at Clifton NET P & R why does it need to go down Southchurch Drive when Clifton residents could make a Tram transfer at the P & R.

How much extra time would going via Clifton be vs in and out the P&R? Presumably the P&R is mainly a side effect of needing to get back to the A453 after going via Clifton and as it's going through the P&R to do that you might as well serve it.

The Skylink Clifton changes do look a bit odd. As mentioned the route through Clifton just slows the journey to places that could be reached by a tram connection or in many cases a short walk to a stop on the A453. If the purpose is to link Clifton residents with jobs around the airport then why not do the same for Meadows, as the original NCT Skylink did but the Clifton one passes non-stop?

Just to put the size of Clifton and Meadows into perspective - from the Train station to west Bridgford side of Trent Bridge is 1.5km. From the Farnbourgh Road end end of Green Lane to the A453 is 1.5km. The Catchment area of the stops in Clifton is going to be way higher than Meadows. That being said having a stop outside the Leisure Centre would make a fair bit of sense (especially as it's inevitably going to stop there anyway due to traffic/lights).