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Class 172 Refurbishment/Snow Hill Capacity

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Old Hill Bank

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Well the timetable change hiatus has put the cat amongst the pigeons but the Class 710 thread included a comment that a 172 had been released. Is this true? Can Snow Hill Lines have have a capacity boost at the end of the year. Has the 172 been released, if so where is it?
 
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HLE

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Apparently so. Tyseley
 
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1179_Clee2

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Well the timetable change hiatus has put the cat amongst the pigeons but the Class 710 thread included a comment that a 172 had been released. Is this true? Can Snow Hill Lines have have a capacity boost at the end of the year. Has the 172 been released, if so where is it?
Rail magazine 857

A 172/0 has been removed from traffic for assessment by owners Angel Trains and WMR ahead of the transfer.
The Barking-Gospel Oak Rail user Group (BGORUG) are upset because they claim this is causing capacity busting trains to be withdrawn from the route.
BGORUG Secretary Glenn Wallis said "This is the final kick in the teeth for our passengers. They've endured months without trains due to electrification and now the trains are back they get a reduction in service"
 

HLE

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Can see their point to be fair.

How much longer does it add to the journey times if the goblin is shut? Are there alternative underground services to get people from A to B?
 

Old Hill Bank

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Rail magazine 857

A 172/0 has been removed from traffic for assessment by owners Angel Trains and WMR ahead of the transfer.
The Barking-Gospel Oak Rail user Group (BGORUG) are upset because they claim this is causing capacity busting trains to be withdrawn from the route.
BGORUG Secretary Glenn Wallis said "This is the final kick in the teeth for our passengers. They've endured months without trains due to electrification and now the trains are back they get a reduction in service"
I can fully understand Glenn having concerns about this but it must be about getting 710s in service not stopping other routes getting capacity improvements.
 

1179_Clee2

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I can fully understand Glenn having concerns about this but it must be about getting 710s in service not stopping other routes getting capacity improvements.
From the same RAIL article

Diesel 172/0 trains are having to run in place of four car electric 710/2 that should be in traffic, but have yet to run due to late construction of the trains by Bombardier.
TfL told RAIL that it is working with London Overground, Bombardier and Arriva Rail London (which operates LO) so that the diesel trains will not be transferred until the 710's enter traffic which is expected to be by November.
While electrically powered passenger trains have yet to run on the line, freight trains hauled by electric traction have begun operating.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Don't suppose it'd be worth training drivers on 319s or some other currently spare EMUs... but then again, it was apparently worth it for Scotrail on the 365s, despite the 385 issues not being as severe or time-consuming to fix as was initially feared.
 

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The issue that LO have that Scotrail didn't is DOO - any stand in train that they operate would need to be capable of DOO, but more importantly DOO self sufficiency - ie no platform mounted equipment. 319s and 315s don't have in cab monitors and would need monitors/mirrors putting up on platforms to enable them to run. Scotrail could just put a guard on board (once they'd agreed how they would operate the train) and away they went.
 

61653 HTAFC

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The issue that LO have that Scotrail didn't is DOO - any stand in train that they operate would need to be capable of DOO, but more importantly DOO self sufficiency - ie no platform mounted equipment. 319s and 315s don't have in cab monitors and would need monitors/mirrors putting up on platforms to enable them to run. Scotrail could just put a guard on board (once they'd agreed how they would operate the train) and away they went.
Good point. Not being staff or from areas with DOO (and long may that continue!), I'd remembered that LO is DOO now, but forgotten that that needs certain things in place to work.
 

HLE

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And it’s been said on here before that no new DOO can be installed in the UK on stations, it has to be on the train itself
 

hwl

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And it’s been said on here before that no new DOO can be installed in the UK on stations, it has to be on the train itself
Apart from all the on platform cameras on crossrail platforms wirelessly linked to the screens in the 345s cabs.
Ditto New Tube for London.
 

332 > 444

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And it’s been said on here before that no new DOO can be installed in the UK on stations, it has to be on the train itself
DOO cameras has been installed at the stations in Heathrow as recently as 2014, when did this come into effect? Waste of time now as the 332s are going but that's off topic.
 

HLE

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Must just be the mirrors then. I’ve definitely seen it mentioned on the southern DOO thread amongst others
 

Class 466

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172002 is the unit in question. Means all the peaktime PIXC (Passengers In eXcess of Capacity) buster trains are now withdrawn as that would require 7/7 units to be available which, given the unreliability of those 172s, wasn’t ever on the cards.
 

swt_passenger

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Apart from all the on platform cameras on crossrail platforms wirelessly linked to the screens in the 345s cabs.
Ditto New Tube for London.
Required for platform edge doors in the Crossrail core tunnels. Does not really create a precedent for the rest of the normal national network.
 

Aictos

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Apart from the London Overground Class 172s not having end gangways, what else is different to the WMT Class 172s?
 

Domh245

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AFAIK it was always planned to fit loos once they left the GOBLIN, but at present they don't have them. Surprised if they've already started fitting one considering the delays to the 710s.

172002 being the unit that has been sent to Tyseley, it's no longer a GOBLIN unit.
 

Aictos

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I may have interpreted this wrong, or just dreamt it, but weren't they being fitted with the gangway cabs?

If they were, wouldn't that entail a trip to Derby to have the work done when it's probably easier to just keep them as they are?
 

Domh245

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What I meant was, I'm surprised they've released one from the GOBLIN before their replacements are ready.

They didn't really have a choice - AIUI they were supposed to have released all of them by now, so releasing one is better (from WMRs perspective) than releasing none. Obviously LO would have preferred to release none but at the same time this should give them some more leverage over Bombardier.
 

Journeyman

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What I meant was, I'm surprised they've released one from the GOBLIN before their replacements are ready.

Unfortunately releasing units becomes a contractual obligation once the dates have been agreed, and you can't back out, even if their replacements have failed to appear. It's been a real problem for ScotRail, who have had to release 170s long before the 385s were ready. We've had short formations on Edinburgh - Glasgow trains for months.
 

Fincra5

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Required for platform edge doors in the Crossrail core tunnels. Does not really create a precedent for the rest of the normal national network.

Although as DOO goes its probably the better version compared to BodySide Cameras.
 

61653 HTAFC

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They didn't really have a choice - AIUI they were supposed to have released all of them by now, so releasing one is better (from WMRs perspective) than releasing none. Obviously LO would have preferred to release none but at the same time this should give them some more leverage over Bombardier.
Does WMR actually need them yet? Didn't think any improvements were due yet, though it isn't my area so I'm not sure.
 

HLE

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Probably refurbing the first one before sending out on crew training. So when the other 7 get sent up they can go into service more or less straightaway.

The 153’s are meant to be transferring to EMT in December. All a domino effect!
 

Domh245

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Does WMR actually need them yet? Didn't think any improvements were due yet, though it isn't my area so I'm not sure.
My understanding is that they were due to be in use from the December 2018 timetable on Coventry services. However of course recently the December timetable change was postponed so it's possible that they won't actually be needed as originally intended, although they won't go amiss in terms of releasing other units for refurb.
 
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