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Class 150 replaces 175 (Arriva Trains Wales)

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Kite159

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It could be worse, it could have been one of the 150s with 3+2 high density airline style seating. Now those have poor legroom.

(ATW hiring it in from Northern)
 
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Envoy

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Surely, given that a 150 was going to do the Manchester to south Wales run, passengers should have been advised to use sister Arriva company XC via Birmingham - where they could change for the Nottingham to Cardiff XC? OR - perhaps would also have created problems given that the Nottingham to Cardiff trains are often a 2 coach 170. That being so, could they have continued to Bristol Parkway and then used GWR?
 

PHILIPE

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Surely, given that a 150 was going to do the Manchester to south Wales run, passengers should have been advised to use sister Arriva company XC via Birmingham - where they could change for the Nottingham to Cardiff XC? OR - perhaps would also have created problems given that the Nottingham to Cardiff trains are often a 2 coach 170. That being so, could they have continued to Bristol Parkway and then used GWR?

Easier to put up with the 150 than making a change especially at Birmingham. 150s are quite common standing in on this route and actually have booked working on a Sunday
 

Aictos

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Not many will agree with you.

I'd much rather something turned up to run the service than have to wait an hour for the next one, potentially missing connections further down the line.

I agree, I sometimes have to use XC and it's a mix of either a 2 car 170 or a 3 car 170 bearing in mind it usually means overcrowding if a 2 car 170 turns up.

Now when one does, it's a pain and I rather not use it and wait for a 3 car instead which won't as busy however as it's a hourly service and I won't know if the next one is a 3 car or not and as I don't intend to spend the rest of my day waiting around on a station, I just grit my teeth and hope to find a seat.

So yes you are quite right and I agree with what you are saying!
 

Journeyman

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PacerTrain142 may be too young to remember but in the early 1980s there was an evening service Hereford to Crewe operated by one of those First Generation 3-car Suburban units. 3+2 seating and a door to each bay. Now that was heavy going. :lol:

In the final few years before the GC main line closed to through traffic, one of the three surviving Marylebone - Nottingham workings was diagrammed for a Class 115 DMU. Owwww!
 

Scotrail84

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Most punters don't care what train turns up to get them to their destination, only really enthusiasts that complain about the traction types. :lol:
 

Journeyman

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Most punters don't care what train turns up to get them to their destination, only really enthusiasts that complain about the traction types. :lol:

I agree. I'd consider this a very minor inconvenience at most, and certainly not worth the anger being expressed here.
 

urbophile

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I think anybody would notice noisy, uncomfortable and overcrowded trains. Instead of making excuses why don't posters on this thread clamour for decent investment on our railways? I'm currently in Italy, and while Trenitalia are far from perfect (punctuality and overcrowding is still a problem) at least their trains are better designed. I know the loading gauge helps, but I travelled on an Intercity the other day from Milan where the second class seats were 3 abreast (2 one side of the aisle, 1 the other), all as far as I can see aligned with windows, and with plenty of legroom. Instead of our ridiculously short overgrown buses why can't we have some proper trains of a decent length and standard? Yes it involves public spending but aren't we, the public, worth spending on?
 

craigybagel

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Most punters don't care what train turns up to get them to their destination, only really enthusiasts that complain about the traction types. :lol:

I doubt some passengers would even notice

To be fair, many passengers do notice, and it's rarely a positive comparison to the 175s that should be in use. One of the bigger issues is the difficulty in dealing with seat reservations when the seat numbers don't match up (or in the case of some sets, don't even exist!). Most of the time, a 150 vice 175 means no seat reservations. But as has been said on this forum and I've said to many a passenger over the years - it's either that or cancel the service all together. Nobody yet has expressed a preference for the latter option.....
 

6Gman

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Maybe the OP was travelling on an Advance ticket, so waiting for the next train wasn't an option.

I was at Piccadilly today and saw the offending train, my husband who had come to meet me and had been there most of the morning (he likes looking at trains and stations) told me all the hourly ATWs had been 2-coachers in the previous few hours. By a stroke of luck we were booked on the 1431, a 3-coach 175 with plenty of seats for everyone, and then some. I imagine a lot of the travelling public had headed home to watch the football or tennis by then, so it seemed a bit strange to put on more capacity just when it ceased to be needed.

As an aside, both mainline stations I used today (MAN and Liverpool South Parkway) were extremely busy, even for a sunny Saturday. On the 1220 which started from South Parkway to Man Picc people were having to stand even on departure from LPY. The 2-coach 175 that conveyed my husband up from Hereford was also rammed by Shrewsbury.

While waiting for the bus outside Hereford station just before 1700, we saw a train that appeared to be five or six coaches long but was presumably two sets coupled together, heading north. Wondered if this was to relieve problems tomorrow.

It doesn't really work like that though since the units will have been out from early morning to late evening.
 

6Gman

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I think anybody would notice noisy, uncomfortable and overcrowded trains. Instead of making excuses why don't posters on this thread clamour for decent investment on our railways? I'm currently in Italy, and while Trenitalia are far from perfect (punctuality and overcrowding is still a problem) at least their trains are better designed. I know the loading gauge helps, but I travelled on an Intercity the other day from Milan where the second class seats were 3 abreast (2 one side of the aisle, 1 the other), all as far as I can see aligned with windows, and with plenty of legroom. Instead of our ridiculously short overgrown buses why can't we have some proper trains of a decent length and standard? Yes it involves public spending but aren't we, the public, worth spending on?

The public don't seem hugely bothered, given how they vote in elections ...

Or the views they express in polls where spending on NHS, education, policing etc always seem to outscore spending on public transport.
 

Wanderwaal

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Surely not the first and not the last 150 on that service. I remember once taking last 175 Manchester to Cardiff Central service of the day and then at Shrewsbury all remaining passengers were asked to change to 150. And 15 minutes after train departed and were running its full possible speed over the rural Shropshire, engine overheated and started to smoke just before Craven Arms platform. It was "amazing" experience resulting in 5 hours delay after another unit (last service from Cardiff to North) pulled broken 150 with passengers all way down to Cardiff.
 

Jez

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150s on the Manchester to South Wales runs seem to be becoming all the more regular in recent months. Twice lately ive had a 150 on this route. I admit one of those occasions it was the 1930 Manchester to Cardiff on a Saturday evening, this one is booked for a 158 not a 175 however a 150 seems to turn up on this diagram (which starts at Manchester at 6.30am) more often than a 158.

I don't find the 150s too bad to be honest. Not ideal for long distance, 175s and 158s obviously far far better, but better than a cancelled train.
 

Andy Pacer

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Are there any weekday Manchester diagrams that are booked something other than a 175 (obviously excusing the 67’s)?
 

craigybagel

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Are there any weekday Manchester diagrams that are booked something other than a 175 (obviously excusing the 67’s)?

No booked departures from Manchester on the South Wales route; there is only the 2017 Cardiff - Manchester that Philippe mentions which then runs ECS to Crewe, booked for a 158. If you count services that run on the same route but don't go all the way to Manchester, there are also:

0030 Cardiff - Hereford (150)
0526 Hereford - Barry Island (150)
0610 Shrewsbury - Maesteg (158)
2155 Cardiff - Crewe (150)
2308 Shrewsbury - Cardiff (150)

All other Manchester services, and all Chester/Holyhead services coming from the marches are booked for 175s on weekdays, apart from the 67 operated services. There is however one diagram on North Wales - Manchester that is booked for a 158, (normally strengthened to 2 X 158 in the morning rush, but that isn't happening at present owing to a shortage of available units).
 

Andy Pacer

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No booked departures from Manchester on the South Wales route; there is only the 2017 Cardiff - Manchester that Philippe mentions which then runs ECS to Crewe, booked for a 158. If you count services that run on the same route but don't go all the way to Manchester, there are also:

0030 Cardiff - Hereford (150)
0526 Hereford - Barry Island (150)
0610 Shrewsbury - Maesteg (158)
2155 Cardiff - Crewe (150)
2308 Shrewsbury - Cardiff (150)

All other Manchester services, and all Chester/Holyhead services coming from the marches are booked for 175s on weekdays, apart from the 67 operated services. There is however one diagram on North Wales - Manchester that is booked for a 158, (normally strengthened to 2 X 158 in the morning rush, but that isn't happening at present owing to a shortage of available units).
Thanks for that comprehensive reply, can I ask which journeys the 158 diagram operates?
 

craigybagel

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Thanks for that comprehensive reply, can I ask which journeys the 158 diagram operates?
It would normally be 0852 from Piccadilly to Llandudno, 1436 from the Airport to Llandudno and 1952 from Piccadilly to Chester. It's temporarily a 175 at present though during the current shortages.

I did forget one other 158 service on weekdays though on my above list, which is still running. The 2052 Chester - Manchester on arrival in Piccadilly shunts from Platform 13 to one of the bay Platforms, and then forms the 2236 Manchester - Shrewsbury. What would otherwise be it's return trip to Chester at 2212 is formed by the 175 that arrives off the 1658 from Carmarthen - this runs into platform 14 and continues immediately to Chester.
 

Andy Pacer

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Thanks. Are the Fishguard Harbours meant to be 175’s? I’ve only seen 150’s lately but have rarely taken notice before.
 

Journeyman

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This would mean the loss of your reserved seat, and two trainloads shoved into one train. Not terribly wise.

A lot of enthusiasts don't understand the priorities of most punters. I'd far rather have slightly less comfortable train than no train.
 

317666

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I'd have been jumping for joy if it happened to me, 150s are my favourite DMUs!

On a more serious note though, whilst far from ideal there are far worse things than an ATW 150/2 for a journey like that - they at least have armrests, tables and 2+2 seating! The only real thing missing from a 175 is the air conditioning (and the lower noise level you would get from a train with no opening windows).
 

Michael.Y

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I would of travelled via Euston/Paddington!

Would have; and that would have taken at least 5 hours to complete including a cross-London transfer, admittedly on S-Stock. That's a hell of a diversion just to avoid a BREL beast.
 

route101

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It would normally be 0852 from Piccadilly to Llandudno, 1436 from the Airport to Llandudno and 1952 from Piccadilly to Chester. It's temporarily a 175 at present though during the current shortages.

I did forget one other 158 service on weekdays though on my above list, which is still running. The 2052 Chester - Manchester on arrival in Piccadilly shunts from Platform 13 to one of the bay Platforms, and then forms the 2236 Manchester - Shrewsbury. What would otherwise be it's return trip to Chester at 2212 is formed by the 175 that arrives off the 1658 from Carmarthen - this runs into platform 14 and continues immediately to Chester.

Must of been the one ATW 158 I seen at Manchester around 7 a few Fridays ago.
 
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