Are some heritage railways becoming too money orientated?

[yorkie]

NYMR are is too money orientated...

How so, and how would you suggest it be run differently?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Some of the longer heritage lines are becoming a mode of transport from A to B, in addition to being an attraction in their own right. A fair bit of the Summer traffic on the WSR seems to be families spending a day at the seaside in Minehead.

A preserved HST running at 40MPH, non stop to Minehead, followed by a steam hauled all stations train would satisfy both markets, and provide useful extra capacity.

Families would get an extra hour beside the sea, and enthusiasts could still enjoy the authentic steam experience.

I think this would be a smart move, although a DMU would be just as viable - Pacer anyone? Probably far cheaper to run.

They could charge a lower fare, based on the non-stop shuttle working and so passengers are aware they are not getting a steam experience.

 

[yorksrob]

Mention here is made of HST's. This scheme - apparently feared by many on the WSR - is something along the lines suggested in the above post.
http://www.mineheadraillinkgroup.org.uk/latest-news

It sounds as though they're more worried about an all day commuter style service, rather than the odd HST. I can imagine a regular return HST every week or so bringing in tourists might be good for the town and the railway (without taking up too many paths).

 

[nat67]

How so, and how would you suggest it be run differently?

Maybe some of the tickets could be a little cheaper on Pickering to Levishsm or mainly Grosmont. (For getting 26038).

 

[BrunswickGreen]

Maybe some of the tickets could be a little cheaper on Pickering to Levishsm or mainly Grosmont. (For getting 26038).

Have you considered contacting the NYMR regarding their pricing regime? Too be honest having just received the annual accounts (minority shareholder) their passenger numbers seem to be holding up.

 

[4141]

Maybe some of the tickets could be a little cheaper on Pickering to Levisham or mainly Grosmont. (For getting 26038).

May I ask why? And what has 26038 got to do with it?

 

[yorkie]

Pickering to Levisham is £5.40 for an off peak single for a journey of around 7 miles.

If the only reason you can give is that the fares are too high, and yet many people are prepared to pay the fares, then I don't think that's much of a case to be honest.

A heritage line (which the NYMR is) is not comparable to public transport when considering the value of a fare.

 

[4141]

It sounds as though they're more worried about an all day commuter style service, rather than the odd HST. I can imagine a regular return HST every week or so bringing in tourists might be good for the town and the railway (without taking up too many paths).

I'd certainly not have a problem with a regular service working in from the main line, it was the idea of an HST just running internally which didn't appeal.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd certainly not have a problem with a regular service working in from the main line, it was the idea of an HST just running internally which didn't appeal.

Fair point, although I'm quite excited about the Swanage railways main line experiment using heritage DMU's.

 

[E759]

Maybe some of the tickets could be a little cheaper on Pickering to Levishsm or mainly Grosmont. (For getting 26038).

Harry Potter WB Studio Tour is £33 child £41 Adult. NYMR target audience, typically not enthusiasts as repeatedly stated, gets a very good deal. Have you seen the crowds at “Hogsmead” station?

 

[cridhe teine]

They need to be money orientated unfortunately and its a privilledge to have so many in the UK, good luck to them.

Totally agree, without revenue there would be no preserved running. If lines need to do something quirky to attract visitors and new enthusiasm I’m all for it.

 

[47434]

Maybe some of the tickets could be a little cheaper on Pickering to Levishsm or mainly Grosmont. (For getting 26038).

Of course....they should lower the ticket price just so you can hop on your pet engine.

The costs of running a railway are frightful. Hire of a decent sized steam engine is in excess of £1000 per day before coal and water. That is a lot of bums on seats just to break even. The Moors, as an example, employ around 100 full time staff plus seasonal staff. Let's say that the average wage is £20k p/a - plus costs of employment is around £2.2m for the full timers - that's another 75000 passengers just to cover costs at £30 a ticket.

If heritage railways don't become more expensive then I fear some may fall by the wayside.

 

[sprinterguy]

Pickering to Levisham is £5.40 for an off peak single for a journey of around 7 miles.

If the only reason you can give is that the fares are too high, and yet many people are prepared to pay the fares, then I don't think that's much of a case to be honest.

Indeed - I think that's quite reasonably priced for a heritage line. Given the length of the line and large size of the operation, the NYMR has certainly never struck me as "coining it in", as far as I'm concerned they're one of the best preserved lines in the country for balancing commercial interest and providing a high quality, authentic historic experience. And they do actually provide cheaper fares in the low season, something which has been suggested on this thread as a good idea.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Maybe some of the tickets could be a little cheaper on Pickering to Levishsm or mainly Grosmont. (For getting 26038).

Suggest you read this, which may give you a little more insight into the costs of running a railway. Essential projects, which cannot be covered by the annual fare income:
https://www.nymr.co.uk/appeal/yorkshires-magnificent-journey-appeal

As for your personal observation, you're only interested in making the shortest possible journey, with one particular loco. Income £11, but you'll demand a refund if your desired motive power is substituted. Too fickle to bother with, when you can sell £64 family tickets to people who are happy to travel behind anything steam powered.
Honestly, you can actually work a Sulzer hard, very hard, over the Moors. For pity's sake do the full line, not just the flat bit to Levisham!

 

[reddragon]

A number of heritage railways often seem to have some capacity that's not fully utilised. Even the peak summer timetables sometimes have long lay overs at a teminus. Additional trains are run at gala days etc, so at some heritage railways, the platforms, signalling, etc could adapt and a special train laid on if there was an unexpected surge in passengers. Obviously requires a driver, loco/stock or DMU to be available, but there are some circumstances when I'm sure I've seen an additional service or two being slipped into the timetable on a particular weekend.

A number of heritage railways often seem to have some capacity that's not fully utilised. Even the peak summer timetables sometimes have long lay overs at a teminus. Additional trains are run at gala days etc, so at some heritage railways, the platforms, signalling, etc could adapt and a special train laid on if there was an unexpected surge in passengers. Obviously requires a driver, loco/stock or DMU to be available, but there are some circumstances when I'm sure I've seen an additional service or two being slipped into the timetable on a particular weekend.

Even volunteers need breaks, lunch and the railway needs recovery time in case of a delay.

You can get volunteers to roster for gala duties a few times a year, but not on a daily basis. A gala can need 3x the number of volunteer shifts

 

[E759]

Even volunteers need breaks, lunch and the railway needs recovery time in case of a delay.

You can get volunteers to roster for gala duties a few times a year, but not on a daily basis. A gala can need 3x the number of volunteer shifts

I feel for the volunteers and staff at gala events. Sometimes the PTI looks sub-optimal.

Don't want to be a party-pooper but beer tents within a few feet of the platform, pop-up bars directly on the platform etc. is surely an accident waiting to happen?

 

[Journeyman]

I feel for the volunteers and staff at gala events. Sometimes the PTI looks sub-optimal.

Don't want to be a party-pooper but beer tents within a few feet of the platform, pop-up bars directly on the platform etc. is surely an accident waiting to happen?

The Mid-Hants suffered a PTI fatality on a real ale train in 2007.

 

[nat67]

May I ask why? And what has 26038 got to do with it?

26038 is a reason for doing the NYMR in the first place.

 

[nat67]

Suggest you read this, which may give you a little more insight into the costs of running a railway. Essential projects, which cannot be covered by the annual fare income:
https://www.nymr.co.uk/appeal/yorkshires-magnificent-journey-appeal

As for your personal observation, you're only interested in making the shortest possible journey, with one particular loco. Income £11, but you'll demand a refund if your desired motive power is substituted. Too fickle to bother with, when you can sell £64 family tickets to people who are happy to travel behind anything steam powered.
Honestly, you can actually work a Sulzer hard, very hard, over the Moors. For pity's sake do the full line, not just the flat bit to Levisham!

Ok perhaps Grosmont for a 26 or BR standard 2-6-4 tank maybe,