First class standards worsening on new trains

[vlad]

Hardly and first class service - she remained in the kitchen for most of the journey (and I was the only one in the half coach). There is zero luggage space at all in the leading car. Seats are getting work already and the window blind not recliner worked.

That's normal for GW isn't it? Tea and biscuits served after leaving London, Reading and Exeter?

Dislike leather seats , on LNER/VTEC they changed to leather , you slip and slide .

Leather seats are all well and good but stick to you if you're wearing leather trousers.

 

[physics34]

To be honest, at this point there is no reason to have first class. Trains are getting fuller and fuller and there aren't enough seats for the extra passengers. Having the extra standard class seats would definitely help out. For example, on my train back from Exeter to London, the first class area was nearly empty. There were about 8 people in it. Standard class on the other hand was full and standing. Those extra seats would have been so useful then. And also, if Britain's government wants equality and all that, why do we have it anyway?

you can really blame poor publicity by GWR for that.

Why can't you have a chance to upgrade to bigger more comfortable seats for a higher cost.

..and i think as of now the rise in the number of people travelling is stabilising. we dont want cattle trucks on "intercity" services, we want more coaches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh will they.

Actually I stand corrected, no they don't:

Mk5 interior

But that doesn't say they can't.

 

[Class83]

Many (most) companies are now restricting First Class travel to journeys of 3 (or even 4) hours or more, therefore the demand for 1st class travel on GWR might be increasingly limited in it's ability/willingness to pay the fares as Bristol/Cardiff are 2 hours or less from London. In this case the question of offering either a halfway house of 'premium economy' with less fare differential might become valid. Do the IETs have more seats per m^2 of floorspace than the HSTs in first or is the difference just in the seat design/construction? I know there are some longer journeys to Devon/Cornwall but they must be a small percentage of overall demand.

Will be a more significant issue on the ECML where there is a significant business/premium market on 4 hour journeys from London to Edinburgh, though even there a good number of passengers will be on 2 hour journeys to Leeds etc.

 

[387star]

The 700s have a great First class. In fact they have the best First Class on any commuter train since the 444s

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 700s have a great First class. In fact they have the best First Class on any commuter train since the 444s

Do they? I think the seats are uncomfortable and pushed too close to the wall. My personal view is that Standard in the 444/350 is better than the 700 First, but First in the 350 beats the 700.

It is clearly superior to 700 Standard, though, which is the whole point, really. (It always surprised me that the 319s had a 2+1 arrangement; the usual approach is for First to be one fewer seat across than Standard).

 

[Mag_seven]

Actually I stand corrected, no they don't:

Mk5 interior

But that doesn't say they can't.

They remind me of the Heathrow Express seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They remind me of the Heathrow Express seats.

They appear to be the same ones fitted to the 185 refurbs, but not in leather.

 

[InterCity:125]

I'm pretty sure the XC Voyagers have the same seats.

Standard is 2+2 first is 2+1. The seats are larger in first as well but the best feature is free WiFi.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm pretty sure the XC Voyagers have the same seats.

The seats used on Voyagers are the same as those used on Pendolinos, and are exclusive to those two types of stock, you don't get them anywhere else.

 

[Ashley Lewis]

Standard is 2+2 first is 2+1. The seats are larger in first as well but the best feature is free WiFi.

Come the end of the year free WiFi will be in standard class as well.

 

[43096]

and you do not need leather to make seats comfortable. Fire regs is a red herring. The cheapest seat possible has been chosen -simple
What i don`t understand is cars get more and more comfortable and trains go the opposite direction. What motivation is there to get me to leave my jag in the station car park and sit on a park bench and often pay a large sum of money for the privilege ?
The only way these dreadful seats will get changed is if passengers go on strike

The fact that passenger growth is declining and in some cases numbers may be declining suggests that maybe passengers are getting sick of having any old cr@p foisted on them for ever higher fares.

Perhaps then the railway will stop treating the punters with contempt. I really hope the railway gets whacked with reduced passenger numbers - seems it might be the only way they’ll learn a lesson.

 

[superalbs]

The problem I see with first class is that some people think it should be a luxury service with others thinking it's a business class/small upgrade from standard. I think these are represented by the difference in the HST and IET first classes. It comes down to your definition of what first class should be.

Maybe they can use that as their excuse when, but only after, they have reduced their excessive First Class fares to reflect this.

At the moment, we have metro style seats in standard, and European standard seats in first. So why keep the prices so high if both classes get a downgrade to unseenly low standards?

If first class was cheaper, wouldn't mind it being such a terrible product, but the 'bargain' first advances are nowhere to be seen on GWR.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe they can use that as their excuse when, but only after, they have reduced their excessive First Class fares to reflect this.

At the moment, we have metro style seats in standard, and European standard seats in first. So why keep the prices so high if both classes get a downgrade to unseenly low standards?

If first class was cheaper, wouldn't mind it being such a terrible product, but the 'bargain' first advances are nowhere to be seen on GWR.

And there are rarely off peak first class tickets, so they become even more extraordinarily expensive compared to discounted standard class tickets (off peak, super off peak etc).

I think the DfT will gradually reduce the first class offerings on Intercity routes, and get rid of it entirely on commuter services - as is already happening on some new franchises.

 

[yorksrob]

To be honest, at this point there is no reason to have first class. Trains are getting fuller and fuller and there aren't enough seats for the extra passengers. Having the extra standard class seats would definitely help out. For example, on my train back from Exeter to London, the first class area was nearly empty. There were about 8 people in it. Standard class on the other hand was full and standing. Those extra seats would have been so useful then. And also, if Britain's government wants equality and all that, why do we have it anyway?

There's no good reason with modern yield management methods for 1st to be empty while standard is full. It just means that their 1st offering is too expensive for the market at this time.

 

[Mag_seven]

I think the DfT will gradually reduce the first class offerings on Intercity routes

They already have done with the 9 car pendos and GWR HSTs.

 

[InterCity:125]

There's no good reason with modern yield management methods for 1st to be empty while standard is full. It just means that their 1st offering is too expensive for the market at this time.

The XC first product isn’t the best in the world but I have seen upgrade prices from £5 many times and it seems to be fuller than GWR first.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The XC first product isn’t the best in the world but I have seen upgrade prices from £5 many times and it seems to be fuller than GWR first.

From what I can see GWR basically don't do Advances, unlike VTWC on which there's some (at some price level or other) on near enough every train, whenever I've looked there have been none.

 

[Journeyman]

There's no good reason with modern yield management methods for 1st to be empty while standard is full. It just means that their 1st offering is too expensive for the market at this time.

Some TOCs are much better than others with this. EMT offer some extremely cheap First Class advance tickets, and I recently booked some Edinburgh - London LNER tix in First for £62.50 each way, which is pretty good given the length of journey. But it's generally a bit hit and miss, and the standard of service in first class can vary enormously, so it's hard to say if it's actually value for money - depends on what you think is important.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Is it true the reason for the switch from leather seats in the HSTs to fabric in the 800s is due to different fire regulations in new trains that don't affect older trains like the HSTs?

 

[cactustwirly]

'Fire regulations' is a bit of a red herring IMO, as moquette is likely to be just as flammable, perhaps even more so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it true the reason for the switch from leather seats in the HSTs to fabric in the 800s is due to different fire regulations in new trains that don't affect older trains like the HSTs?

It may be that fire regulations make leather more expensive, but I see no reason it would prohibit it.

 

[K.o.R]

Edinburgh - London LNER tix in First for £62.50

6 available on each train. Get in quick!

We were slightly unlucky in that we were right on the bogie on a coach with an interior door that didn't close, so the ride wasn't as good as standard in the middle of a coach, but a hot meal and endless free drinks, cakes and biscuits. Superb.

 

[physics34]

The 700s have a great First class. In fact they have the best First Class on any commuter train since the 444s

i think "great" is a bit of an overstatement.
They are still surprisingly firm even though they look to have a decent amount of cushioning.

 

[infobleep]

To be honest, at this point there is no reason to have first class. Trains are getting fuller and fuller and there aren't enough seats for the extra passengers. Having the extra standard class seats would definitely help out. For example, on my train back from Exeter to London, the first class area was nearly empty. There were about 8 people in it. Standard class on the other hand was full and standing. Those extra seats would have been so useful then. And also, if Britain's government wants equality and all that, why do we have it anyway?

Shouldn't the guard have declassified first class in this case or is first class only declassified during disruption, short formations and strikes but not when a train is formed of the right number of coaches but is still rammed for whatever reason?

 

[Bletchleyite]

6 available on each train. Get in quick!

We were slightly unlucky in that we were right on the bogie on a coach with an interior door that didn't close, so the ride wasn't as good as standard in the middle of a coach, but a hot meal and endless free drinks, cakes and biscuits. Superb.

Mk4s ride like a cart wherever you sit, though I agree over the bogie is worse. Awful things built down to a price, even if they do have nice seats in them (now they've replaced the single piece cushions in Standard with a two piece design).

 

[infobleep]

1st class in the 700s is acceptable. Standard class most definitely is not.

The reason the seats have to be hard is due to modern safety standards.

Unfortunately the spokes person for GTR did answer why, if that is the case, the first class seat are softer. Perhaps the journalist,, if it was one who asked for a comment, didn't ask that question.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reason the seats have to be hard is due to modern safety standards.

This is nonsense. The seats do not have to be hard; the Grammer IC3000 still meets safety regulations and is not unduly hard, for example. It is simply cheaper to meet fire regulations by keeping the amount of foam used to a minimum rather than specifying more retardant materials.

It is cost-cutting, and that is all it is.

 

[K.o.R]

Mk4s ride like a cart wherever you sit, though I agree over the bogie is worse. Awful things built down to a price, even if they do have nice seats in them (now they've replaced the single piece cushions in Standard with a two piece design).

This was in a Mk3 actually, Kings Cross to Stirling via Edinburgh.

 

[infobleep]

Come the end of the year free WiFi will be in standard class as well.

I thought it was meant to be in April 2018?